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gamerk2
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Default 04-02-2012, 14:27 | posts: 2,103 | Location: Medford, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerotoNiN View Post
No one made that law, it's common sense, no system has ever had such a large gap between competitors. It makes it incredible difficult for developers to make multi-system, third party games.
Sure there was; for example, the 3DO was unmatched until the Dreamcast came out years later.
   
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The Chubu
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Default 04-02-2012, 15:20 | posts: 2,542 | Location: Look out!

Actually, the multi platform thing is fairly new stuff in the video game industry. Previously only selected big publishers tried to pull such things by paying extended development for multi platform titles (in the best cases of course, there is still the "well, do it for two platforms... in the same time, or you're fired" )

Before that, Nintendo 64 titles were Nintendo 64 titles, PS One titles were PS One titles, etc. There wasnt this "If its big buck publisher, it will get released even on the Wii" thing that now is the shizzle.

It was just because what you mentioned, there was a big gap between systems, there were way more dedicated chips with custom designs than now. It was a very closed system, more than now.
   
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gamerk2
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Default 04-02-2012, 18:42 | posts: 2,103 | Location: Medford, NY

^^ Now, you basically have consumer grade components on a PPC based CPU. Granted, the low level implementations are significantly different, but its simmilar stuff to what you already have in PC's.

Consoles are basically becoming dedicated gaming PC's now, with one spec that gets updated every 5 years, with limited AA and graphics stuck on medium.
   
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scoutingwraith
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Default 04-03-2012, 06:13 | posts: 9,454 | Location: Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha

I personally will have a problem with this along with at least half of my friends. We tend to share and borrow games of each other (unless its a multi-player game that we can play co-op) and it will piss of a lot of people. Almost everyone i know trades and shares their games with their friends.
   
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The Chubu
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Default 04-04-2012, 03:52 | posts: 2,542 | Location: Look out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamerk2 View Post
Consoles are basically becoming dedicated gaming PC's now
While PCs are becoming more and more consoleish (and people demand it, aka Steam Machines for every1 and be done with Windows! ) yay for progress?

Anyway, this whole 2nd hand, or lended games thing its a friggin mess. And i dun like them devs in GDC talking about the "victory against 2nd hand market" either. I'd expect that from Ubi, EA, or any other publisher, but not from the devs... not from the devs!
   
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Default 04-04-2012, 08:04 | posts: 1,022

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Originally Posted by The Chubu View Post
While PCs are becoming more and more consoleish (and people demand it, aka Steam Machines for every1 and be done with Windows! ) yay for progress?

Anyway, this whole 2nd hand, or lended games thing its a friggin mess. And i dun like them devs in GDC talking about the "victory against 2nd hand market" either. I'd expect that from Ubi, EA, or any other publisher, but not from the devs... not from the devs!
When the next Xbox and PS3 (any even PC games) with no 2nd hand market compatible games comes out, I am expecting a VERY VERY BIG CRASH in the gaming market and everyone going broke.

Because people might just say, what the F and never buy games at all.
   
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Default 04-04-2012, 08:33 | posts: 3,714

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamerk2 View Post
Sure there was; for example, the 3DO was unmatched until the Dreamcast came out years later.
The death knell for 3DO wasn't Dreamcast, it was PlayStation.
And as you've said it yourself, it's years later, so it's obvious there'd be a large technology gap.

Damn I miss local multiplaying with daisy-chained controllers on the 3DO...
   
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gamerk2
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Default 04-04-2012, 15:43 | posts: 2,103 | Location: Medford, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by k1net1cs View Post
The death knell for 3DO wasn't Dreamcast, it was PlayStation.
And as you've said it yourself, it's years later, so it's obvious there'd be a large technology gap.

Damn I miss local multiplaying with daisy-chained controllers on the 3DO...
Yes, the Playstation killed the 3DO, but technology wise, it was a decade ahead of its time.

And in other news, it sounds like Orbis dev kits are already out, and its looking like Sony already has NDA's with publishers that expire right after next years E3...
   
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Default 04-04-2012, 18:20 | posts: 47 | Location: Queens, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by k1net1cs View Post
The death knell for 3DO wasn't Dreamcast, it was PlayStation.
And as you've said it yourself, it's years later, so it's obvious there'd be a large technology gap.

Damn I miss local multiplaying with daisy-chained controllers on the 3DO...
The 3DO also had some of the weirdest games ever on any console. That (and lack of good games) probably had more to do with its demise.

Last edited by Firepac; 04-04-2012 at 18:29.
   
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SerotoNiN
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Default 04-04-2012, 19:01 | posts: 929 | Location: Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepac View Post
The 3DO also had some of the weirdest games ever on any console. That (and lack of good games) probably had more to do with its demise.
Don't forget the load times. Worst load times in the history of gaming.
   
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scoutingwraith
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Default 04-05-2012, 05:09 | posts: 9,454 | Location: Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
When the next Xbox and PS3 (any even PC games) with no 2nd hand market compatible games comes out, I am expecting a VERY VERY BIG CRASH in the gaming market and everyone going broke.

Because people might just say, what the F and never buy games at all.
This.....

it actually could happen and piss off a LOT of people. If they manage to do that there will be a big problem in the gaming industry for companies.
   
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Raiga
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Default 04-05-2012, 06:32 | posts: 1,022

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Originally Posted by scoutingwraith View Post
This.....

it actually could happen and piss off a LOT of people. If they manage to do that there will be a big problem in the gaming industry for companies.
I forgot to mention that -> When it happens, the only thing which will keep gaming alive would be piracy on PC. (and since Piracy is close to nil on Consoles, their market might crash).
   
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Default 04-05-2012, 11:17 | posts: 9,868 | Location: Dundee, Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
(and since Piracy is close to nil on Consoles, their market might crash).
piracy is very much active and alive on all current consoles barring the 3ds and vita
   
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Default 04-05-2012, 16:38 | posts: 114 | Location: England

I would like to go the route of MS for my next Console.

I absolutely love the PS3 but it has had its issues with Multi-plat releases.
Unless of course the PS4 is epic!

Dont care too much on the hardware its uses - as long as it's an improvement on the previous.
   
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Default 04-05-2012, 18:47 | posts: 2,103 | Location: Medford, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerotoNiN View Post
Don't forget the load times. Worst load times in the history of gaming.
1st gen CD-ROMS. Everything had to be loaded into RAM, as streaming from the CD was simply not viable.
   
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gamerk2
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Default 04-05-2012, 18:48 | posts: 2,103 | Location: Medford, NY

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Originally Posted by scatman839 View Post
piracy is very much active and alive on all current consoles barring the 3ds and vita
Well, 3DS games are already dumped on the internet. Credit for Nintendo for having enough security to not have a working emulator made before the handheld is actually released this time around...[though I can't imagine it would be THAT hard to get a non-3D build working based off a DS emulator...]
   
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Raiga
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Default 04-05-2012, 19:15 | posts: 1,022

Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman839 View Post
piracy is very much active and alive on all current consoles barring the 3ds and vita
Yepp, but I was referring to the new Xbox720 cartridge and the new PS4 copy/2ndhand_protection.

They both will lead to the crash of consumers buying both the consoles and their content.
   
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Default 04-05-2012, 20:33 | posts: 9,868 | Location: Dundee, Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamerk2 View Post
Well, 3DS games are already dumped on the internet. Credit for Nintendo for having enough security to not have a working emulator made before the handheld is actually released this time around...[though I can't imagine it would be THAT hard to get a non-3D build working based off a DS emulator...]
Yeah, but no method for using those dumps.

The DS emulator was pretty much unusable though, it was a pixel for pixel accurate emulation, so slow it was unusable.

And it would be very hard to do it, the architecture is completely different so it would have to be made from scratch.
   
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Default 04-05-2012, 23:37 | posts: 8,740 | Location: Indiana

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Originally Posted by Firepac View Post
The 3DO also had some of the weirdest games ever on any console. That (and lack of good games) probably had more to do with its demise.
Lets not forget the CD-i which was competing with 3DO both of which had the sorriest batch of games in history. Need for Speed was 3DO's only good game. CDi didn't even have a game worth taking for free.

Now the NeoGeo also sported a heavy price tag. $599 console and $199.00 ++ for games...yet it was pretty successful and the second longest lived console ever produced. That says a lot right there. Price doesn't matter too much if the games for it are in enough demand.
   
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gamerk2
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Default 04-06-2012, 18:09 | posts: 2,103 | Location: Medford, NY

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Pla...bis,15247.html

Quote:
IGN reports that the PlayStation 4, aka Orbis, may feature custom chips based on AMD's A8-3850 APU and Radeon HD 7670 discrete GPU. According to the APU's off-the-shelf specs, it packs a quad-core 2.9 GHz processor an an integrated HD 6550D graphics core. The APU will work in tandem with the dedicated HD 7670 GPU which is clocked up to 1 GHz, supports DirectX 11, and is accompanied by 1 GB of dedicated VRAM.

On a discrete graphics level, sources say that the PlayStation 4 will be "toe-to-toe" with Microsoft's Xbox 720, as the latter console will reportedly use AMD's HD 6670 card. The HD 7670 is actually a re-branding of last year's HD 6670 featuring the same specs across the board. It's an entry-level GPU by today's standards, costing around $74.99 USD, but capable of cranking out just over 30 FPS in Metro 2033 and Crysis 2 with the settings at high and the resolution cranked up to 1920 x 1080.
So basically, a AMD-3850 CPU [essentially an Athlon 2 X4] paired with a AMD 7670/6670 CPU, which are currently mid-tier GPU's at best. Releasing in Winter 2013.

I told you so.
   
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Default 04-06-2012, 22:57 | posts: 1,903 | Location: AZ

This could all be settled if George Plimpton was still with us. R.I.P.
   
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Default 04-14-2012, 18:53 | posts: 5,130 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamerk2 View Post
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Pla...bis,15247.html



So basically, a AMD-3850 CPU [essentially an Athlon 2 X4] paired with a AMD 7670/6670 CPU, which are currently mid-tier GPU's at best. Releasing in Winter 2013.

I told you so.
One big thing though is the streamlining that the console allows the the dev's. So say your Metro 2033 runs at 30fps on high at 1920x1080 on a windows based pc with the same specs as the rumored PS4, the PS4 with its very light OS and the fact that the dev knows exactly what he is making the game for he may be able to make that lower end cpu/gpu combo get say ~60fps at 1920x1080 on ultra its not out of the realm of possibilities.

btw: I would say the A8 is more on PII x4

Last edited by Loophole35; 04-14-2012 at 18:56.
   
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gamerk2
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Default 04-17-2012, 05:08 | posts: 2,103 | Location: Medford, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
One big thing though is the streamlining that the console allows the the dev's. So say your Metro 2033 runs at 30fps on high at 1920x1080 on a windows based pc with the same specs as the rumored PS4, the PS4 with its very light OS and the fact that the dev knows exactly what he is making the game for he may be able to make that lower end cpu/gpu combo get say ~60fps at 1920x1080 on ultra its not out of the realm of possibilities.

btw: I would say the A8 is more on PII x4
Not on THAT CPU/GPU combination. Sure, not having a heavy OS helps a TON, but theres only so much you can do.

Matches my expectations though.
   
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Default 04-18-2012, 00:38 | posts: 5,130 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamerk2 View Post
Not on THAT CPU/GPU combination. Sure, not having a heavy OS helps a TON, but theres only so much you can do.

Matches my expectations though.
True but the dark horse in the combo is the APU with its integrated 6650hd GPU working in tandem with the 7670hd almost the same gpu and we Know from experience that crossfire scales almost always at 1.8-1.9x. So we may have essentially double the power of one 7670hd, hey a guy could hope for the best case scenario can't he.
   
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gamerk2
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Default 04-18-2012, 15:02 | posts: 2,103 | Location: Medford, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
True but the dark horse in the combo is the APU with its integrated 6650hd GPU working in tandem with the 7670hd almost the same gpu and we Know from experience that crossfire scales almost always at 1.8-1.9x. So we may have essentially double the power of one 7670hd, hey a guy could hope for the best case scenario can't he.
Crossfire between the same GPU. You also would have significantly varing latencies between the APU and GPU, which could really make coding difficult when trying to use both.

If specs are true, then I'm not impressed in the least. Then again, I was predicting just enough power to push 1080p with some AA thrown in, so I'm not shocked either.
   
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