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---TK---
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Default 03-27-2012, 23:55 | posts: 17,187 | Location: New Jersey, USA

the part I disagree with when you said a q9550 would not bottleneck in sli/xfire. his cpu is ok for a single card, but not ultra high end aka 680/7970. even 2 6950`s will be bottlenecked quite a bit with that cpu
   
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Default 03-28-2012, 00:10 | posts: 185 | Location: USA

I just did mine,bought a referb Asus ASUS Sabertooth P67 sli board off the geeks($99.00),bought i7 2700k for $314.00,memory sale the egg $80.00 and a Noctua NH-D14 for $84.00,then used my case,1000wt ps,and now I'm doing 5gig OC,
   
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  (#53)
Agent-A01
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Default 03-28-2012, 00:52 | posts: 6,146 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
That means you agree with what I originally said:



This was obviously not specific to BF3. However I do think that overclocking 2600K will increase FPS in BF3 64 player conquest
yes but bf3 is a completely different story. i am still bottlenecked by graphics even in a 64player server and even if i lower my oc. bf3 takes gpu > cpu
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 03-28-2012, 01:21 | posts: 23,466 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
An interesting way of putting it, but correct. While I can't find any benches that would prove right your particular example, I'm inclined to believe that a slight increase in FPS, in CPU heavy games in particular, could be gained from upgrading i7 920 to 2600K, even with GT220 as the GPU.

Would you expect identical FPS with all CPUs that will not bottleneck GT220?

The below is from bit-tech's 2600K review. The GPU is Radeon 5870.


This is what you're saying, if you actually understand what my point is. If 2600K at 4.85Ghz gives you 30 FPS more compared to 3.4Ghz, then 2600K at 3.4Ghz is clearly bottlenecking the 5870.
This is just nonsense...and you're talking in circles - yet again.

You won't find benches proving Agent's example BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST except in your head.

And of course the fps would be identical if the GPU was maxed out, no matter what CPU was used.

Also, this benchmark is not in any way relevant here because it doesn't show GPU load. And even if it did you can bet your bottom dollar it's not going to be 100%.
That's pretty obvious by the 30 fps difference as you yourself pointed out. That's avg btw, min is only 19fps.

It also doesn't prove your claim that a better CPU will increase FPS even when the GPU is working at full capacity.

The only thing that IS relevant is that the OP's GPU is working at 100% in BF3. One Hundred Percent.

Which means a faster/better/stronger/moar CPU won't make a difference, as Agent-A01 just exemplified and I stated before that.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 03-28-2012 at 03:09. Reason: cgiuy;GASGXUIO;XHaso'sa
   
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Default 03-28-2012, 01:34 | posts: 17,187 | Location: New Jersey, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster View Post
This is just nonsense...and you're talking in circles - yet again.

You won't find benches proving Agent's example BECAUSE THEY DON"T EXIST except in your head.

And of course the fps would be identical if the GPU was maxed out, no matter what CPU was used.

Also, this benchmark is not in any way relevant here because it doesn't show GPU load. And even if it did you can bet your bottom dollar it's not going to be 100%.
That's pretty obvious by the 30 fps difference as you yourself pointed out.

It also doesn't prove your claim that a better CPU will increase FPS even when the GPU is working at full capacity.

The only thing that IS relevant is that the OP's GPU is working at 100% in BF3. One Hundred Percent.

Which means a faster/better/stronger/moar CPU won't make a difference, as Agent101 just exemplified and I stated before that.
well there is 1 thing wrong with your explanation. you got the dudes name wrong
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 03-28-2012, 01:36 | posts: 23,466 | Location: NZ

Oops.
   
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  (#57)
AZONIC[rus]
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Default 03-28-2012, 05:08 | posts: 54 | Location: Russia, Moscow

Thanks guys Very helpful discussion here...
Of course if I will put GTX 680 or 7970 or 2nd 6950 to my system my CPU will be a bottleneck. BUT my opinion is that I will receive more FPS than with new CPU. I agree that I will receive more FPS with i7 2600K (but I can buy only i5 2500k) but less than with new GPU.
To have new CPU I need to spent around 500$. Same with GPU...

P.S. yes, I need to buy SSD anyway...
   
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  (#58)
lehtv
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Default 03-28-2012, 08:55 | posts: 3,096

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster
Also, this benchmark is not in any way relevant here because it doesn't show GPU load. And even if it did you can bet your bottom dollar it's not going to be 100%.
That's pretty obvious by the 30 fps difference as you yourself pointed out.
Does this mean that you think 5870 is actually severely bottlenecked by 2600K @ 3.4GHz in that game? That's just ridiculous. The increase in FPS is from the CPU doing its computation faster, not from higher GPU utilization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster
Which means a faster/better/stronger/moar CPU won't make a difference, as Agent-A01 just exemplified and I stated before that.
Neither of you have provided any evidence towards that, so I can safely dismiss your whole rant.
   
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  (#59)
Pill Monster
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Default 03-28-2012, 09:41 | posts: 23,466 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
Does this mean that you think 5870 is actually severely bottlenecked by 2600K @ 3.4GHz in that game? That's just ridiculous. The increase in FPS is from the CPU doing its computation faster, not from higher GPU utilization.
What? Jesus H Christ are you seriously this retarded or are you just trolling for lulz? Do you even read the stuff you post because I don't think you do.

Where did I say anything about any bottle neck? All I said was the GPU didn't have a 100% load.
I was replying to your comment in which you stated a CPU will increase fps regardless of GPU load. The benchmark you provided does not back up your claim so why even post it?

But since you mentioned it all I can say is the benchmark speaks for itself, and it's prob very CPU heavy. I can only assume tho as there is no usage shown.

And STOP TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.



Quote:
The increase in FPS is from the CPU doing its computation faster, not from higher GPU utilization.
You just said in your last comment that it was ridiculous to think the CPU was bottlenecking the GPU. Now your saying that the increased fps are because the CPU can do calculations faster. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

A CPU which cannot complete calculations fast enough for the GPU is a BOTTLENECK because the GPU has to wait.
If the same CPU is overclocked and can work faster (calculate) to meet the GPU's then the bottleneck is removed.

Congratulations, you just managed to completely and utterly contradict yourself in one paragraph.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
Neither of you have provided any evidence towards that, so I can safely dismiss your whole rant.
I don't have to provide any evidence, least of all to you, because I know how CPU's and GPU's work together to render 3D objects. Now I may not be an expert in that field, but I understand it well enough to know you don't have a goddamned clue what you're talking about.

You have to be trolling man. You have to be. Either that or else you like to argue for the hell of it....most likely both imho.

I haven't added anyone to my ignore list but you may yet be the first....Bah.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 03-28-2012 at 10:14.
   
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  (#60)
lehtv
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Default 03-28-2012, 10:30 | posts: 3,096

Calm down and stop the personal insults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster
Where did I say anything about any bottle neck? All I said was the GPU didn't have a 100% load.
You implied it, I merely asked a question to confirm whether that was what you actually thought. You said the GPU was not at 100% load, and that this was clear from the 30 FPS difference. That could only mean that the 30 FPS difference arises from a difference in GPU utilization which in turn is allowed by the difference in CPU performance (3.4Ghz vs 4.85Ghz). This is what bottlenecking means.

Quote:
A CPU which cannot complete calculations fast enough for the GPU is a BOTTLENECK because the GPU has to wait.
If the same CPU is overclocked and can work faster (calculate) to meet the GPU's then the bottleneck is removed.
Based on that, you did mean there was a bottleneck with the 2600K at 3.4. How else would the 30 FPS difference arise, and why was it such a huge deal I assumed it was what you meant?

But more importantly, as I said earlier, not all calculations during gaming are done by the GPU. In other words, the CPU does a share of the computation that counts towards FPS. I'd love someone to explain that is not the case, and that is not how it works. But if you are going to attempt it, refrain from doing so in your usual manner of insulting, self righteous disrespect.

Quote:
I don't have to provide any evidence
Then you might as well not post at all.

Quote:
You have to be trolling man. You have to be. Either that or else you like to argue for the hell of it....most likely both imho.
I don't see where you're coming from. I'm neither trolling nor arguing for sake of arguing, you have my word on that.

Quote:
I haven't added anyone to my ignore list but you may yet be the first....Bah.
Oh, the drama. Welcome to the internet, Pill Monster.
   
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  (#61)
AZONIC[rus]
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Default 03-28-2012, 11:18 | posts: 54 | Location: Russia, Moscow

Well, it seems that discussion going onto personalities...

Let's take a look firs and second
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 03-28-2012, 11:48 | posts: 23,466 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZONIC[rus] View Post
Well, it seems that discussion going onto personalities...

Let's take a look firs and second
Interesting Guru3D article, although it pretty much just confirms what I've been saying the whole time....


No prizes for guessing which card you're looking at lol
It'd be good to see the same tests done with a 680, just for comparison.




Edit-

Hey I just looked at the BF3 results, that can't be right because that's about what you get with your 6950 isn't it?
48fps seems really low for a 7970...although if that's min fps it's prob OK, I can't remember whether Hilbert shows min or avge..

Last edited by Pill Monster; 03-28-2012 at 12:26.
   
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AZONIC[rus]
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Default 03-28-2012, 12:13 | posts: 54 | Location: Russia, Moscow

That was a singlplayer test...
Guru:
"Battlefield 3 was the one title that I expected to show a lot of performance differences with different CPUs. Dude was I wrong. And I should have known it as BF3 is very efficient with multi-threading, hence it can utilize multiple cores extremely well making its CPU needs really efficient.
I do need to make a note here as especially for BF3 it counts, this is a single player benchmark test. In massive online environment your CPU will become increasingly more important and stressed much worse. However, of we purely focus on the graphics engine versus the processors used, the difference remains rather small.
"


I have 35-41 FPS in 1920x1200. If my CPU is somewhere around i5-661-x4-970-i7-870, then I will get plus 15-20 FPS with 7970 and probably null with i7-2600K
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 03-28-2012, 12:18 | posts: 23,466 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZONIC[rus] View Post
That was a singlplayer test...
Guru:
"Battlefield 3 was the one title that I expected to show a lot of performance differences with different CPUs. Dude was I wrong. And I should have known it as BF3 is very efficient with multi-threading, hence it can utilize multiple cores extremely well making its CPU needs really efficient.
I do need to make a note here as especially for BF3 it counts, this is a single player benchmark test. In massive online environment your CPU will become increasingly more important and stressed much worse. However, of we purely focus on the graphics engine versus the processors used, the difference remains rather small.
"


I have 35-41 FPS in 1920x1200. If my CPU is somewhere around i5-661-x4-970-i7-870, then I will get plus 15-20 FPS with 7970 and probably null with i7-2600K
Out of the CPU's in that test, yours is about equal to the X4 970. And yeah the 7970 is looking pretty good for you right now..

Btw, I played BF3 online with my 6950 and a dual core Athlon X2 255 (3.6Ghz).

Yes the CPU was hitting 95-100% load, but my fps were still about 35-45...so you should get way more than that at least. The biggest problem I had was lots of stutter...

Last edited by Pill Monster; 03-28-2012 at 12:27.
   
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Agent-A01
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Default 03-28-2012, 17:14 | posts: 6,146 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
Neither of you have provided any evidence towards that, so I can safely dismiss your whole rant.
i am inclined to agree with pill, you must be trolling. Do i seriously have to get out my 9400GT, take out my 580s, run BF3 stock vs my OC 4.8ghz and show the differences? newsflash, there will be ZERO difference between fps.
   
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lehtv
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Default 03-28-2012, 17:17 | posts: 3,096

Do you think I am trolling despite already giving my word that I'm not? If so, I have absolutely nothing to say to you.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 03-28-2012, 17:39 | posts: 23,466 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
Do you think I am trolling despite already giving my word that I'm not? If so, I have absolutely nothing to say to you.
You're a first class troll.

I had my suspicions a long time ago but instead figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. Seems in this case I should have trusted my instincts.
   
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lehtv
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Default 03-28-2012, 17:44 | posts: 3,096

I didn't expect anything less from you than rude condescension. Sorry you have to be like that, dunno what I can say.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 03-28-2012, 19:47 | posts: 23,466 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
I didn't expect anything less from you than rude condescension. Sorry you have to be like that, dunno what I can say.
Lol, this coming from the guy who says to me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv
Does this mean that you think 5870 is actually severely bottlenecked by 2600K @ 3.4GHz in that game? That's just ridiculous.
Then claims he is an innocent victim of my misguided self righteous behavior after I finally lost patience with him: (And yes it was bottle necked by the I7).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv
I merely asked a question to confirm whether that was what you actually thought
^You are such a hypocrite.


^^Sound familiar?


I would much rather be helping the guy who can't install his drivers, or telling someone how to read a dumplog or format his HDD or repair his mbr.

But no, I can't - cuz I'm stuck between helping a guy in this tread who is getting a bucketload of bad advice...and arguing about stupid crap that really doesn't need debating.
What can I say, maybe you bring out the worst in me?



This is how trolls operate;
never quite debating the point at hand, instead skirting around it or being vague, deliberately making rebuttals in question form instead of giving direct answers,
introducing meaningless/irrelevant benchmark results, implying a lot but never committing to any one POV,
asking the other party if he or she said/thought a certain way as if they did say it, when in fact they did not...continuing to argue/debate a topic you are unsure about but keep slogging away anyway hoping the other person really knows less than you do....
attacking or inciting a conflict, then playing the innocent party...all these things describe you, so please don't think it's simply because your opinion might be different....

You remind me of that Cambria dude who got the hammer not so long ago....Anyway I'm not wasting anymore time on this.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 03-28-2012 at 20:12.
   
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  (#70)
AZONIC[rus]
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Default 03-28-2012, 20:57 | posts: 54 | Location: Russia, Moscow

I tested in 1600x1200... And I think I need to change everything. GPU and all system
I get avg 40 FPS for 10 mins of play in MP.
And this is load...

   
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  (#71)
PinguX
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Default 03-28-2012, 21:18 | posts: 821

Overclocking your cpu to 4ghz and getting a 7970/680 will increase the fps, however I don't know if your cpu will keep up with the cards when thier overclocked. A second 6950 should increase the fps as well however it will still be limited by your cpu.
   
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---TK---
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Default 03-28-2012, 21:33 | posts: 17,187 | Location: New Jersey, USA

somebodys a trolling here.
   
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lehtv
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Default 03-28-2012, 22:04 | posts: 3,096

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster
*snip*
What a sour, childish rant.
   
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