Guru3D.com Forums

Go Back   Guru3D.com Forums > Hardware > General Hardware
General Hardware Want to talk about anything Hardware related? This is the place, you can discuss it here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old
  (#26)
Xeon XT
Master Guru
 
Videocard: Unlocked MSI N465GTX GE
Processor: Intel Q9650
Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4
Memory: OCZ 4GB ReaperX 5-5-5-12
Soundcard: Audigy 2 ZS + Z-5500
PSU: Seasonic X-750 Gold
Default 01-31-2012, 17:26 | posts: 195 | Location: Toronto, Ont. Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by marccguru View Post
Here are two interesting posts. (Thanks Sheherazade and Xeon)
It's shows exactly the confusion that result from that thread's question.. (always a pleasure to read you shehrazade btw..)

I'd like to know what both of you guys think of each other's post ?
Could you guys please refute each other ?

Xeon, what do you think of Shehrazade's post ?
Shehrazade, what do you think of Xeon's post ?
I completely agree with Shehrazade. The SA950 has decent colours for a TN display but like he said, viewing angles give most TN display an uneven color (close the to the edges because you aren't looking at the pixels at 90 degrees). I'd like to add that I personally find the colours on a TN monitor washed out compared to an IPS display, the SA950 is no exception to this statement. (I'm looking at it right now lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marccguru View Post
The SA950 is 550$ :S would I get similar performance with a SA750D ?
The reviews of the 750D on newegg are horrible however.... 120hz is only available through the DP from what I can read... not sure If I'll have DP on my new rig (I know few about connectors and such...)

Also I just read that HDMI can only run 60Hz at 1920x1080p ? .. then why in the hell would I want to buy a HDMI 120Hz 1920x1080p display just to have it run at 60Hz only ???
You won't use HDMI for 120Hz due to the bandwidth limitation of HDMI, you need to connect through the Dual-Link DVI port (all video cards come with Dual-Link DVI these days... unless it's ultra low end) or the DisplayPort port which the SA950 has. And yes, you should be able to get the same performance with the 750D, just no DVI port which is something you'll want if you don't have DP to take advantage of the 120Hz.

If you want something cheaper than an IPS monitor, I suggest you looking into a VA type of display, the colour reproduction is almost on par with IPS displays (not better) but the response times are typically faster (I could be wrong with current models, someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Also VA type displays have the same viewing angles as an IPS (178 degrees). I hope I haven't confused you by adding VA displays into the mix but I'm just letting you know what's out there.
I have a S-PVA monitor at home which is very comparable to the IPS displays I use at work in terms of IQ but it did retail for $1000 when I bought it

Last edited by Xeon XT; 01-31-2012 at 17:31.
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#27)
Neo Cyrus
Ancient Guru
 
Neo Cyrus's Avatar
 
Videocard: XFX HD 6970 @ 1015/6400
Processor: Xeon W3530 @ 4GHz
Mainboard: GA-X58A-UD3R Rev. 2.0
Memory: 6GB DDR3-2000 9-9-9-24-1T
Soundcard: SB ZxR + DT 990 Pro-250
PSU: Antec High Current 900W
Default 01-31-2012, 17:48 | posts: 7,442 | Location: GTA, Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by marccguru View Post
Thanks
I wish everyone were saying the same...
I have to agree with him. Even though colours can look good on a TN they are not accurate. So if accurate colours and a FAR superior viewing angle (colours can invert on a TN) are important to you I'd recommend an IPS unless you really want 3D. Even then remember maintaining 120fps in a modern game is really not possible with a single card, not with the game maxed out anyway.

My last panel was a "high end" 23" TN and the colours on the corners were always wrong due to the extremely minor angle they are at.

Keep in mind that the matte finish that most Dell IPS panels have is EXTREMELY annoying, it annoys the hell out of me. Side by side next to a TN the TN doesn't look so bad because the matte finish is like coating your panel with glue and sand. It's like a free layer of aliasing.

Sure after adjusting to it, I think always having a proper view of the screen (colours/angle) is worth putting up with the matte finish but it was annoying as hell to begin with.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#28)
TruMutton_200Hz
Ancient Guru
 
TruMutton_200Hz's Avatar
 
Videocard: N/A
Processor: i3 3110M
Mainboard: MD 99070 Medion Akoya
Memory: DDR-3 4gig
Soundcard: MiniMax DAC Plus, UMC-200
PSU: Li-ion
Default 01-31-2012, 19:35 | posts: 2,767 | Location: Belgium

Here's an excellent in-depth review of a typical, decent, mid-range IPS monitor:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1302259660

The review pays clear attention to the pros and cons of matte vs. glossy panel coating, which I think is always fairly important.

And then there's this:

Quote:
FPS gamers still need to look for 120 Hz TN based monitors.
Mid-range IPS monitors are good for casual gaming, to which I will also add I agree they're good enough if fast-paced games are not all that important to you but, if they are important to you, you're better off with 120 Hz TN even though I can understand the fact colour accuracy and overall image quality leaves alot to be desired on TN, and alot especially on 120 Hz TN. So you might want to aim for a fast, high end IPS monitor instead, after all. But then the main question will be, can you and do you want to afford one of those? My advice is to not also forget the fact the technology advances very rapidly. If it were my money on the counter, I'd either go for the Asus VG236H or wait.

EDIT: Or better still, the VG236HE combined with this:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...glasses-kit-us

Last edited by TruMutton_200Hz; 01-31-2012 at 19:49.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#29)
Lavans
Ancient Guru
 
Lavans's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX 680
Processor: i5 2500k
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-G45
Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative SBZ/CM Sirus 5.1
PSU: Thermaltake TR2 RX 750w
Default 01-31-2012, 19:38 | posts: 4,631 | Location: Austin

Quote:
Originally Posted by marccguru View Post
Thanks Lavans, could you list some of these high end good IQ 120Hz panel that you have in mind ?
Unfortunately the majority of the 120Hz monitors that are being sold online came out after I stopped researching them. However, the Acer GD235HZ has been out for a while now, and I've often thought about picking one up. My local Fry's Electronics has one on display right next to the IPS display stands, and I'm going to vouch that the IQ presented with this monitor is quite nice for a LCD ( almost as good as the Sony SDM-HS95P ). Also, it appears to be one of the most popular 120Hz monitors on the market. Personally, if I were to buy a 120Hz, it would be this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824009222
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#30)
Anarion
Ancient Guru
 
Anarion's Avatar
 
Videocard: ASUS GeForce GTX 780 DC2
Processor: Intel Core i7 3770K
Mainboard: ASUS P8Z77-V
Memory: G.SKILL RipjawsX 16 GB
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Zx + HD 595
PSU: SF Golden Green Pro 600W
Default 01-31-2012, 19:54 | posts: 10,522 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans View Post
The difference in color vibrancy and viewing angle isn't enough for me to consider an IPS panel for the prices they're being sold at. Viewing angle aside, you can get a TN that has very nice IQ that can substitute an IPS, and lets not forget the fact we can control color vibrancy with CCC/NVCP. As photo editor, video editor, and gamer, I'd rather spend the money on a decent 120Hz monitor for the extra smoothness and precision over a slight benefit in brightness/contrast and color vibrancy.
That vibrancy ****s up colours. You can't then distinguish brighter tones from each others any more. If someone really wants to get 120Hz panel, Samsung is pretty much the top dog. However their idiotic display stands and lack of VESA mounting is a massive downside.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#31)
Lavans
Ancient Guru
 
Lavans's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX 680
Processor: i5 2500k
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-G45
Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative SBZ/CM Sirus 5.1
PSU: Thermaltake TR2 RX 750w
Default 01-31-2012, 20:51 | posts: 4,631 | Location: Austin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
That vibrancy ****s up colours. You can't then distinguish brighter tones from each others any more.
Perhaps in your experience, but not in mine. If you think they mess up colors, then you're not adjusting the brightness and contrast accordingly, or you're increasing the vibrancy too much. But then again, we're basing the IQ of a monitor based off the eyes and preferences of different individuals. What works for me might not work for you. At least by making the suggesting to adjust the colors and contrast, the OP has something to take into consideration when he makes his purchase. Whether or not that'll work for him is entirely up to him. If he feels that tweaking the color settings is worth while, then who are you to say that he shouldn't be doing it?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#32)
TruMutton_200Hz
Ancient Guru
 
TruMutton_200Hz's Avatar
 
Videocard: N/A
Processor: i3 3110M
Mainboard: MD 99070 Medion Akoya
Memory: DDR-3 4gig
Soundcard: MiniMax DAC Plus, UMC-200
PSU: Li-ion
Default 01-31-2012, 21:06 | posts: 2,767 | Location: Belgium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
That vibrancy ****s up colours. You can't then distinguish brighter tones from each others any more. If someone really wants to get 120Hz panel, Samsung is pretty much the top dog. However their idiotic display stands and lack of VESA mounting is a massive downside.
Well... I don't see any "vibrancy", nor oversaturation, on my LG 42LH5000 which happens to be a more than 2 years old TN based panel.

As for the viewing angles, I don't see any colour-shift nor gamma-shift whatsoever. Not even, if I move several feet into whichever direction I please. That's while sitting at approx. 10 feet distance.

Last edited by TruMutton_200Hz; 01-31-2012 at 21:09.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#33)
Lavans
Ancient Guru
 
Lavans's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX 680
Processor: i5 2500k
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-G45
Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative SBZ/CM Sirus 5.1
PSU: Thermaltake TR2 RX 750w
Default 01-31-2012, 21:14 | posts: 4,631 | Location: Austin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
Well... I don't see any "vibrancy", nor oversaturation, on my LG 42LH5000 which happens to be a more than 2 years old TN based panel.
Assuming you're using an Nvidia GPU ( based off your listed specs ), you can find the settings in NVCP.

 Click to show spoiler

   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#34)
Sever
Ancient Guru
 
Sever's Avatar
 
Videocard: Galaxy 3GB 660TI
Processor: i7 2600k - XSPC Raystorm
Mainboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme9
Memory: 16gb Corsair Vengeance
Soundcard: Asus Xonar D2X
PSU: Silverstone Gold 1200w
Default 01-31-2012, 21:24 | posts: 4,826 | Location: Land of the Great Downunder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon XT View Post
You won't use HDMI for 120Hz due to the bandwidth limitation of HDMI, you need to connect through the Dual-Link DVI port (all video cards come with Dual-Link DVI these days... unless it's ultra low end) or the DisplayPort port which the SA950 has. And yes, you should be able to get the same performance with the 750D, just no DVI port which is something you'll want if you don't have DP to take advantage of the 120Hz.
that might be changed this generation due to the newer hdmi standard.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...deon-7970.aspx

amd lists the 7970 as capable of supporting 4k resolution via 3ghz hdmi 1.4a. even if it can only support that resolution at 30fps, 4k resolution at 30fps is more or less the same as 4-6 1080p displays running at 30fps, which should be enough bandwidth for one 1080p display to be running at 120hz.

but im just speculating based on what im reading. havent seen the exact specifications of 3ghz hdmi 1.4a.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#35)
TruMutton_200Hz
Ancient Guru
 
TruMutton_200Hz's Avatar
 
Videocard: N/A
Processor: i3 3110M
Mainboard: MD 99070 Medion Akoya
Memory: DDR-3 4gig
Soundcard: MiniMax DAC Plus, UMC-200
PSU: Li-ion
Default 01-31-2012, 21:46 | posts: 2,767 | Location: Belgium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans View Post
Assuming you're using an Nvidia GPU ( based off your listed specs ), you can find the settings in NVCP.

 Click to show spoiler
I know. They're all at their defaults (Digital Vibrance set to 50%) for me.

This was shot using my Sony Ericsson T700 cellphone:
 Click to show spoiler



As you can see, life's good out-of-the-box.
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#36)
Lavans
Ancient Guru
 
Lavans's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX 680
Processor: i5 2500k
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-G45
Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHz
Soundcard: Creative SBZ/CM Sirus 5.1
PSU: Thermaltake TR2 RX 750w
Default 01-31-2012, 21:57 | posts: 4,631 | Location: Austin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
I know. They're all at their defaults (Digital Vibrance set to 50%) for me.

This was shot using my Sony Ericsson T700 cellphone:
 Click to show spoiler



As you can see, life's good out-of-the-box.
Ah ok! I misunderstood what you were saying, lol.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#37)
scheherazade
Maha Guru
 
Videocard: (.) an
Processor: sb-e water
Mainboard: p9x79 ws
Memory: 32 gig
Soundcard: spdif 4x12" driver towers
PSU: dual 1000w
Default 01-31-2012, 22:47 | posts: 2,016 | Location: NOVA

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
Cool projector, but it'll cost like a new car.

Also, being single link DVI, it'll be really low refresh rate at max rez.

You can approximate the same thing using 3 cheap projectors using surround.

-scheherazade
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#38)
TruMutton_200Hz
Ancient Guru
 
TruMutton_200Hz's Avatar
 
Videocard: N/A
Processor: i3 3110M
Mainboard: MD 99070 Medion Akoya
Memory: DDR-3 4gig
Soundcard: MiniMax DAC Plus, UMC-200
PSU: Li-ion
Default 01-31-2012, 23:17 | posts: 2,767 | Location: Belgium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sever View Post
that might be changed this generation due to the newer hdmi standard.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...deon-7970.aspx

amd lists the 7970 as capable of supporting 4k resolution via 3ghz hdmi 1.4a. even if it can only support that resolution at 30fps, 4k resolution at 30fps is more or less the same as 4-6 1080p displays running at 30fps, which should be enough bandwidth for one 1080p display to be running at 120hz.

but im just speculating based on what im reading. havent seen the exact specifications of 3ghz hdmi 1.4a.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21473092
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#39)
marccguru
Member Guru
 
Videocard: AMD Radeon HD 7970
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3
Memory: 8 GB DDR3 1600Mhz
Soundcard: onboard
PSU: SeaSonic X-SERIES X-1050
Default 02-01-2012, 05:02 | posts: 79

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon XT View Post

You won't use HDMI for 120Hz due to the bandwidth limitation of HDMI, you need to connect through the Dual-Link DVI port (all video cards come with Dual-Link DVI these days... unless it's ultra low end) or the DisplayPort port which the SA950 has. And yes, you should be able to get the same performance with the 750D, just no DVI port which is something you'll want if you don't have DP to take advantage of the 120Hz.
all gpu come with dual-link dvi these days... but this 750D has none ? should I consider it's low end ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
I'd either go for the Asus VG236H or wait.

EDIT: Or better still, the VG236HE combined with this:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...glasses-kit-us
The VH236HE is far less expensive than the VG236H
In what are they different actually ?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#40)
marccguru
Member Guru
 
Videocard: AMD Radeon HD 7970
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3
Memory: 8 GB DDR3 1600Mhz
Soundcard: onboard
PSU: SeaSonic X-SERIES X-1050
Default 02-01-2012, 05:03 | posts: 79

I can't see any 120Hz monitor offering Display Port on newegg... Am I missing something ?....
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#41)
UZ7
Ancient Guru
 
UZ7's Avatar
 
Videocard: Sapphire R9 290 - XL2720T
Processor: i7 2600K
Mainboard: Asus Maximus V Gene
Memory: 8GB Samsung 30nm
Soundcard: SupremeFX III
PSU: Corsair AX850
Default 02-01-2012, 05:44 | posts: 5,214 | Location: Everyday Rain Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by marccguru View Post
I can't see any 120Hz monitor offering Display Port on newegg... Am I missing something ?....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001472

Connectors
Displayport, HDMI (they didnt list it but it also has DVI)



It will look like either of those (display port mini and regular).
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#42)
Sever
Ancient Guru
 
Sever's Avatar
 
Videocard: Galaxy 3GB 660TI
Processor: i7 2600k - XSPC Raystorm
Mainboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme9
Memory: 16gb Corsair Vengeance
Soundcard: Asus Xonar D2X
PSU: Silverstone Gold 1200w
Default 02-01-2012, 09:17 | posts: 4,826 | Location: Land of the Great Downunder

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
nice find. so at the very least, 1080p60 3d is doable, as is 1080p120. i am definitely holding off replacing my tv until these beasts are unleashed.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#43)
nutyo
Ancient Guru
 
nutyo's Avatar
 
Videocard: Sapphire Vapor-X HD5870
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8600
Mainboard: DFI Lanparty LT X48-T2R
Memory: 4GB G.Skill DDR2 1066
Soundcard: Asus Xonar Essence ST
PSU: CM Real Power Pro 850W
Default 02-01-2012, 09:42 | posts: 4,602 | Location: Brisbane, Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans View Post
As long as you're going to give ballpark statements, yes, there's a big difference in quality between the two. However, if you look more towards the high end TN panels, I think you'll be surprised at the quality they provide compared to an IPS. Regardless, I'm interested in hearing you elaborate on your opinion behind why we shouldn't tweak the color settings in our control panels.
What you should do is properly colour calibrate the monitor using something like Spectraview II Spyder 3. However obviously most people here are not going to want to spend that sort of money just for accurate colours, which is totally understandable. You should then set the monitor to native dvi signal and leave it. If your whitepoints are noticeably off then adjust the colour temparature of the monitor (on the monitor not the video card) until the white looks as white as it can to your eyes (always good to have a couple of reference screens in this case).

The reason I am a big proponent of not using saturation and vibrancy controls used in videocard control panels is because they change the pure accuracy of the dvi signal and start giving a distorted colour gradient in an attempt to compensate for the monitor's inadequacy. The problem is that the way they do it means any adjustment completely destroys the colour accuracy of almost all of the colour range. I have done some work in image manipulation and when working with photos or renders, colour accuracy is king.

In addition to this, adjusting the vibrancy in that way doesn't even fix the problem it is intended for. You monitor will never be able to physically display more colour than its colour gamut. So adjusting the vibrancy serves to cause colour crush where colours that were not intended to be as saturated as the end of range all start displaying exactly the same as end of range colour saturation. It causes a loss of detail and in some cases banding, in all gradients that near the edges of the monitor's colour gamut.

If you are not concerned with colour accuracy then of course you can adjust the screen to look however you want. It is yours after all. However knowing that the image on my screen is not displaying an image as intended by the creator of that image, whether is UI or a game or a photo, rubs me the wrong way. If you do not like how a game or image looks you should modify the game (ex. lighting mods for skyrim) or the image (photoshop) not your monitor, the monitor should display the image with as much accuracy as possible. Then you don't end up trying to fix problems on an image that are the fault of your monitor, not the image.

Actually Hilbert added that monitor calibration gradient to the start of all his reviews for exactly that reason. People had obviously increased the saturation of the colours on their monitors and were complaining that they could not see enough difference between the colours in the graphs Hilbert was using. That is exactly what colour crush does. The problem was on their end not Hilbert's.

Why do I always write so much stuff...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marccguru
What are you using nutyo ? And what would you personally buy if you had to get a new gaming display tomorrow ?
I am using an NEC 2490WUXi. It has a H-IPS panel. For a gaming display tomorrow based on prices and currently available IPS panels I would say go with a 120Hz TN. It is primarily for gaming after all. To be honest, if you have to ask for price don't bother getting an IPS for gaming. They just aren't worth the cost for most gamers.

When I got my monitor I 24inch TNs were around ~$600. My monitor cost me $1300. But I got it for not just gaming, but my general rig that I also do work on. And that required and accurate display. If it was solely for a gaming rig, the cost wouldn't have been worth it. That said the NEC 2490WUXi is considered the best non-wide colour gamut monitor ever made and I don't regret my decision one bit.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#44)
Veteran
Ancient Guru
 
Veteran's Avatar
 
Videocard: 690@1267/350 on H20-24/7
Processor: 930@4.0 HT-on-H20-24/7
Mainboard: Asus-P6X58D-Cpu block
Memory: 12 Gb Corsair 1600 (1531)
Soundcard: XonarXense-Sennheiser 350
PSU: Corsair AX 1200i
Default 02-01-2012, 12:46 | posts: 9,023 | Location: United kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutyo View Post
What you should do is properly colour calibrate the monitor using something like Spectraview II Spyder 3. However obviously most people here are not going to want to spend that sort of money just for accurate colours, which is totally understandable. You should then set the monitor to native dvi signal and leave it. If your whitepoints are noticeably off then adjust the colour temparature of the monitor (on the monitor not the video card) until the white looks as white as it can to your eyes (always good to have a couple of reference screens in this case).

The reason I am a big proponent of not using saturation and vibrancy controls used in videocard control panels is because they change the pure accuracy of the dvi signal and start giving a distorted colour gradient in an attempt to compensate for the monitor's inadequacy. The problem is that the way they do it means any adjustment completely destroys the colour accuracy of almost all of the colour range. I have done some work in image manipulation and when working with photos or renders, colour accuracy is king.

In addition to this, adjusting the vibrancy in that way doesn't even fix the problem it is intended for. You monitor will never be able to physically display more colour than its colour gamut. So adjusting the vibrancy serves to cause colour crush where colours that were not intended to be as saturated as the end of range all start displaying exactly the same as end of range colour saturation. It causes a loss of detail and in some cases banding, in all gradients that near the edges of the monitor's colour gamut.

If you are not concerned with colour accuracy then of course you can adjust the screen to look however you want. It is yours after all. However knowing that the image on my screen is not displaying an image as intended by the creator of that image, whether is UI or a game or a photo, rubs me the wrong way. If you do not like how a game or image looks you should modify the game (ex. lighting mods for skyrim) or the image (photoshop) not your monitor, the monitor should display the image with as much accuracy as possible. Then you don't end up trying to fix problems on an image that are the fault of your monitor, not the image.

Actually Hilbert added that monitor calibration gradient to the start of all his reviews for exactly that reason. People had obviously increased the saturation of the colours on their monitors and were complaining that they could not see enough difference between the colours in the graphs Hilbert was using. That is exactly what colour crush does. The problem was on their end not Hilbert's.

Why do I always write so much stuff...?


I am using an NEC 2490WUXi. It has a H-IPS panel. For a gaming display tomorrow based on prices and currently available IPS panels I would say go with a 120Hz TN. It is primarily for gaming after all. To be honest, if you have to ask for price don't bother getting an IPS for gaming. They just aren't worth the cost for most gamers.

When I got my monitor I 24inch TNs were around ~$600. My monitor cost me $1300. But I got it for not just gaming, but my general rig that I also do work on. And that required and accurate display. If it was solely for a gaming rig, the cost wouldn't have been worth it. That said the NEC 2490WUXi is considered the best non-wide colour gamut monitor ever made and I don't regret my decision one bit.
You dont need to buy an expensive calibrator,you just need to download one of the many calibrated profiles from the internet that people have already calibrated using expensive hardware/software,saves you alot of money time and effort.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#45)
nutyo
Ancient Guru
 
nutyo's Avatar
 
Videocard: Sapphire Vapor-X HD5870
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8600
Mainboard: DFI Lanparty LT X48-T2R
Memory: 4GB G.Skill DDR2 1066
Soundcard: Asus Xonar Essence ST
PSU: CM Real Power Pro 850W
Default 02-01-2012, 14:11 | posts: 4,602 | Location: Brisbane, Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veteran View Post
You dont need to buy an expensive calibrator,you just need to download one of the many calibrated profiles from the internet that people have already calibrated using expensive hardware/software,saves you alot of money time and effort.
...Umm and then I guess you steal their monitor too... because proper colour calibration is specific to the monitor it is produced on. That is the whole idea, it is to compensate for the variation in individual panels and how they behave.

Taking someone else's ICC profile is, to put it delicately, close to pointless. Even from someone who has the exact same model of monitor there is no guarantee that it is going to be in any way more accurate than just running the native dvi signal with no alterations.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#46)
Anarion
Ancient Guru
 
Anarion's Avatar
 
Videocard: ASUS GeForce GTX 780 DC2
Processor: Intel Core i7 3770K
Mainboard: ASUS P8Z77-V
Memory: G.SKILL RipjawsX 16 GB
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Zx + HD 595
PSU: SF Golden Green Pro 600W
Default 02-01-2012, 14:49 | posts: 10,522 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans View Post
Perhaps in your experience, but not in mine. If you think they mess up colors, then you're not adjusting the brightness and contrast accordingly, or you're increasing the vibrancy too much. But then again, we're basing the IQ of a monitor based off the eyes and preferences of different individuals. What works for me might not work for you. At least by making the suggesting to adjust the colors and contrast, the OP has something to take into consideration when he makes his purchase. Whether or not that'll work for him is entirely up to him. If he feels that tweaking the color settings is worth while, then who are you to say that he shouldn't be doing it?
Monitors are different. In my case even 2% will make bright colour look overblown (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php can't see the difference in right side colours any more). Adjusting the contrast/gamma/brightness causes banding and dark tones suffer a lot (you can't distinguish darker tones any more http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php). Last time I checked changing those also applied to fraps screenshots, which is extremely bad thing.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#47)
marccguru
Member Guru
 
Videocard: AMD Radeon HD 7970
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3
Memory: 8 GB DDR3 1600Mhz
Soundcard: onboard
PSU: SeaSonic X-SERIES X-1050
Default 02-01-2012, 15:52 | posts: 79

Quote:
Originally Posted by UZ7 View Post
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001472

Connectors
Displayport, HDMI (they didnt list it but it also has DVI)

It will look like either of those (display port mini and regular).
Okay, here's the complete list of 120Hz, 1920*1080 (excluding 27") monitors on NEWEGG. So the choice is still very short) Result: 8 Products:
http://alturl.com/kiz5h

I noticed there are 4 type of connectors:
-Displayport
-DVI
-DVI-D
-DVI-D Dual Link
-HDMI
-D-Sub
-Component(YPbPr)
-VGA

Which one am I looking for and why ?
I heard that I need whether DisplayPort or Dual Link DVI, to benefit from my 120Hz... Is that true ? Nothing else than these 2 ? What Display Port has that Dual DVI doesn't (why one would be looking for a display port over Dual DVI ??), what's difference between DVI and Dual DVI ?

Thanks

Last edited by marccguru; 02-01-2012 at 15:56.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#48)
alanm
Ancient Guru
 
alanm's Avatar
 
Videocard: MSI TF GTX 770
Processor: i5-3570k
Mainboard: Asrock Z77 Pro4
Memory: 8gb G.Skill DDR3 1600
Soundcard: SB Zx
PSU: XFX Pro 750w
Default 02-01-2012, 18:13 | posts: 5,355

Dual DVI and display port carry more bandwidth than HDMI and DVI, which is what 120hz needs.

I'm pissed off that my card has only DVI-I (2) and mini-HDMI. So cant do 120hz. Still may get a s27a950 or 750 and use it @60 it until I upgrade my card. AMD are much more forward looking than Nv in connectivity. And connectivity will influence my card purchases from now on.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#49)
UZ7
Ancient Guru
 
UZ7's Avatar
 
Videocard: Sapphire R9 290 - XL2720T
Processor: i7 2600K
Mainboard: Asus Maximus V Gene
Memory: 8GB Samsung 30nm
Soundcard: SupremeFX III
PSU: Corsair AX850
Default 02-01-2012, 18:18 | posts: 5,214 | Location: Everyday Rain Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by marccguru View Post
Okay, here's the complete list of 120Hz, 1920*1080 (excluding 27") monitors on NEWEGG. So the choice is still very short) Result: 8 Products:
http://alturl.com/kiz5h

I noticed there are 4 type of connectors:
-Displayport
-DVI
-DVI-D
-DVI-D Dual Link
-HDMI
-D-Sub
-Component(YPbPr)
-VGA

Which one am I looking for and why ?
I heard that I need whether DisplayPort or Dual Link DVI, to benefit from my 120Hz... Is that true ? Nothing else than these 2 ? What Display Port has that Dual DVI doesn't (why one would be looking for a display port over Dual DVI ??), what's difference between DVI and Dual DVI ?

Thanks
What you're looking for is DVI-D Dual Link


Yes you need full Display Port or DVI-D (Dual Link), this is because 120Hz utilizes the bandwidth, HDMI can't do it because it will be 60Hz + Audio. Most 120Hz monitors will come with the cord.

Display Port is just the new thing they're trying to push for, you're already starting to see new laptops with DP Mini instead of the VGA output.

The difference between DVI an DVI-D is the amount of bandwidth, just think of it as D = Double Bandwidth and you'll need it if you want 120Hz.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#50)
scheherazade
Maha Guru
 
Videocard: (.) an
Processor: sb-e water
Mainboard: p9x79 ws
Memory: 32 gig
Soundcard: spdif 4x12" driver towers
PSU: dual 1000w
Default 02-01-2012, 18:39 | posts: 2,016 | Location: NOVA

In regards to accuracy :

Accuracy is important for designers... so that when one artist sends an image to another, they see the same thing.
Also, 6 bit TN displays can have more banding. As a designer, it's hard to tell if the banding is in the display, or if it's in your data. IPS lets you see more of your data.

Note : calibrating your display by printing a color card is a joke.
Your printer also has to be calibrated.
Calibrating your monitor to your printer is just taking one machine's errors and making them another machine's errors.

For an end user, it's perfectly normal to tweak a display's settings to make it look the way you like it to look.
"Accuracy" and "good looks" are not the same thing.
What is most accurate, to 99% of people will not be what they think looks best.

Most people will like to crank contrast, pick their favorite temperature, pick their favorite color profile, etc.
In the end the display can look great, but if you were to compare the display to a color chart it would be pure fail.
At the same time, if you calibrated your display to a color chart, you would find that brightness/contrast settings have to be set to 'wierd' numbers, and in the end the image looks 'meh'... just doesn't 'pop'.

Just like boosting bass/treble in music.
Accurate just doesn't sound as good as something that's EQ'd to emphasize the things you like most.

If you're using a display for pleasure, just focus on a display with adequate contrast and vibrance to suit your liking.
And make sure the display doesn't suffer color-banding at settings that give you your desired brightness/contrast.

That said, IPS does tend to be naturally more vibrant than TN.
Meaning that after you calibrate the display to be accurate, IPS doesn't look 'as bad' as TN would when calibrated.
But with either IPS or TN, you'll tweak them to both look as good as they can, and both will be inaccurate/uncalibrated.


In regards to specific displays
(IIRC)
750 has : -DVI, +Displayport, +HDMI
950 has : +DVI, +Displayport, +HDMI

Tests show that the 750 over HDMI has more input lag (~40ms) than the 950 over DVI (8/16ms) (Note : Each test was done by a different person on a different setup).
No idea how the DP performs.



The Samsung has the most complete RGB coverage of 120hz TN displays.
Co-worker had this display in 23 inches. He returned it and changed to the VG236H.
He says that he feels like the samsung's colors looked a little nicer, but the VG236H just looks better all-around.
It does not support nvidia 3D vision.

ASUS VG236HE and VG236H are the same monitor.
Both support nvidia 3D vision.
The H includes 3D vision glasses.
The HE does not include 3D Vision glasses.
I personally like this monitor a lot. It just looks good to me (after adjustment).
I love deep blacks, and the black level is one of the best (Best of all 120hz monitors?).
Candy colored games like dungeon defenders 'pop' with the strong light/dark.

ASUS VG278H is the successor to the VG236H, BUT because it's matte finish, the monitor will [to the eye] look like it has worse contrast because of ambient diffusion.
I like the size, but I wish the color/contrast was like the VG236H. The added size just makes up for the loss in visuals from the VG236H.
Supports nvidia 3D vision.

The ACER 27 has been bashed in some reviews, but it has a strong amount of happy users, and last I checked it was the best 'bang for the buck'.
I haven't tried it, so I can't say if it's good or bad.
Supports nvidia 3D vision.


Note :
The samsung's relatively poor black level matters more at night than in the day.
The glossy finish will still make blacks look good in the day, and it's all win with the nicer color.
At night, you could get a bit of a 'gray' feeling from the weak blacks.
YMMV depending on how you use it.

Personally, for 120hz 2D :
23 : asus
27 : samsung (Not impressed with the 278H, would like to use this one for a while and see how I like it, rather than just checking it out for a moment)

But that's just me ...

-scheherazade

Last edited by scheherazade; 02-01-2012 at 19:50.
   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright (c) 1995-2014, All Rights Reserved. The Guru of 3D, the Hardware Guru, and 3D Guru are trademarks owned by Hilbert Hagedoorn.