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  (#101)
Dublin_Gunner
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Default 12-03-2011, 18:23 | posts: 4,632 | Location: Dublin, Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerapar88 View Post
I hate that :/
I want those smooth frames on a PC, not a console !

Edit: BTW, how the **** did you get your athlon to 3.9?
TBH I reckon it would go further only my board can't supply enough voltage.

I run it 24/7 at 3.77
   
 
Old
  (#102)
TheHunter
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Default 12-03-2011, 18:35 | posts: 13,439 | Location: √╥

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin_Gunner View Post
You're purposely nitpicking. That's DX9 class hardware running that in real time. And considering even on modern PC's it takes a fair bit of horsepower to achieve those DoF and other lense effects, its really very impressive.

And a GTX285 is FAR more powerful than anything in a PS3 or Xbox360.



True, but unfortunately the console market is much much larger than the PC market, and that's where the money is made for a lot of these devs.

They only have 2 platforms to be compliant with, rather than a multitude of configurations to work with.
no, im observing tech demo gfx and that's the whole point of it

Also simple dof like that or basic bokah lensflare reproduction isn't really demanding.
Yes i said 285gtx would run it with ease, imo even 8800gtx/ 250gts would be more then enough @ dx9.

Check nvidias 6800 nalu demo, 7900 luna and madmod mike demo or Ati 2900XT Ruby or 4870 Ruby demos.

The only thing that kinda stood out in this console tech demo were those models, few smoke bits and shadows looked pretty good for such hw, the rest is on avg.
   
Old
  (#103)
Dublin_Gunner
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Default 12-03-2011, 19:36 | posts: 4,632 | Location: Dublin, Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHunter View Post
no, im observing tech demo gfx and that's the whole point of it

Also simple dof like that or basic bokah lensflare reproduction isn't really demanding.
Yes i said 285gtx would run it with ease, imo even 8800gtx/ 250gts would be more then enough @ dx9.

Check nvidias 6800 nalu demo, 7900 luna and madmod mike demo or Ati 2900XT Ruby or 4870 Ruby demos.

The only thing that kinda stood out in this console tech demo were those models, few smoke bits and shadows looked pretty good for such hw, the rest is on avg.
I'll just take it you're trolling. There's very few PC games that come anywhere near to that tech demo.
   
Old
  (#104)
TheHunter
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Default 12-03-2011, 19:48 | posts: 13,439 | Location: √╥

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin_Gunner View Post
I'll just take it you're trolling.
And i'll assume you're trolling as well

Quote:
There's very few PC games that come anywhere near to that tech demo.
Nope. And i said PC tech demos, this what you showed ain't a game either.
   
 
Old
  (#105)
pokerapar88
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Default 12-03-2011, 19:53 | posts: 1,638 | Location: Argentina // Buenos Aires

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin_Gunner View Post
TBH I reckon it would go further only my board can't supply enough voltage.

I run it 24/7 at 3.77
Well, even at 3.77 it is quite a lot ! I couldn't go any further than 3.45 in my Athlon II 640 :S I mean, it might have been because of the memory because you an only OC by BCLK :/
Now I'm more than happy at a 4.3Ghz 24/7 OC, hard rock stable and quite cool I must add. I love cheap AMDs they manage to withstand whatever you throw at 'em, but I must admit that after I tried the i5.... the very foundations of my existence around computer hardware crumbled into tiny pieces. I thought it wouldn't be so much of a difference... but there is.
Anyway, all in all, great Oc you got there, I'd like comparing some results with you at that 3.9Ghz you could manage to squeeze !

CPU Queen: 40730
Photoworxx: 58734
ZLib: 250.6 MB/s
AES: 433678
Hash: 3021 MB/s
FPU VP8: 3930
FPU Julia : 21138
FPU Mandel: 11698
FPU SinJulia: 3798
Mem Read: 19040 MB/s
Mem Write: 21317 MB/s
Mem Copy: 21019 MB/s
Latency: 47.0 ns

Taken today with AIDA64 v2.00.1700

EDIT: Everyone is invited to post their results as well ! After all, this is my post ^^

Last edited by pokerapar88; 12-03-2011 at 19:58.
   
Old
  (#106)
Dublin_Gunner
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Default 12-03-2011, 20:02 | posts: 4,632 | Location: Dublin, Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHunter View Post
And i'll assume you're trolling as well


Nope. And i said PC tech demos, this what you showed ain't a game either.
Nope, its not, but its running on PS3/Xbox 360 in real time - which was the purpose. Not to state that its better than PC, but to show what the consoles are capable of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerapar88 View Post
Well, even at 3.77 it is quite a lot ! I couldn't go any further than 3.45 in my Athlon II 640 :S I mean, it might have been because of the memory because you an only OC by BCLK :/
Now I'm more than happy at a 4.3Ghz 24/7 OC, hard rock stable and quite cool I must add. I love cheap AMDs they manage to withstand whatever you throw at 'em, but I must admit that after I tried the i5.... the very foundations of my existence around computer hardware crumbled into tiny pieces. I thought it wouldn't be so much of a difference... but there is.
Anyway, all in all, great Oc you got there, I'd like comparing some results with you at that 3.9Ghz you could manage to squeeze !

CPU Queen: 40730
Photoworxx: 58734
ZLib: 250.6 MB/s
AES: 433678
Hash: 3021 MB/s
FPU VP8: 3930
FPU Julia : 21138
FPU Mandel: 11698
FPU SinJulia: 3798
Mem Read: 19040 MB/s
Mem Write: 21317 MB/s
Mem Copy: 21019 MB/s
Latency: 47.0 ns

Taken today with AIDA64 v2.00.1700

EDIT: Everyone is invited to post their results as well ! After all, this is my post ^^

Its not a bad chip (the x4 645) but I do get a bit of CPU limitation in some things (like older 3d marks where GPU usage will drop to 25%). But in BF3, my GPU usage is 95-99% consistently, and the performance is great with my 6870 @1000/1200.

It does for what I need it to do, but I do want to upgrade it. For 99, it was an excellent purchase tbh.
   
Old
  (#107)
pokerapar88
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Default 12-03-2011, 20:10 | posts: 1,638 | Location: Argentina // Buenos Aires

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin_Gunner View Post
Nope, its not, but its running on PS3/Xbox 360 in real time - which was the purpose. Not to state that its better than PC, but to show what the consoles are capable of.




Its not a bad chip (the x4 645) but I do get a bit of CPU limitation in some things (like older 3d marks where GPU usage will drop to 25%). But in BF3, my GPU usage is 95-99% consistently, and the performance is great with my 6870 @1000/1200.

It does for what I need it to do, but I do want to upgrade it. For 99, it was an excellent purchase tbh.
I won't argue about that ! That's why i bought my 640 the first time ! Its an excellent performer for the price. I played BF3 at very decent frames with it, same goes to most of the games. I payed 150 USD though, here technology is quite more expensive !
The biggest difference comes at loading stuff, rendering stuff, big gaming scenes with lots of stuff, and some games that are more cpu intensive that show the CPU shining against my old 640.
For eg. MW2 online, boosted from 60-80 fps to solid 125fps maxed out.
   
Old
  (#108)
Laykun
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Default 12-04-2011, 00:36 | posts: 3,216 | Location: New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHunter View Post
^
i already said my pov that PC is more powerful, and no you said they're about the same, the only difference is in SW or the way it access it..

Yea this direct access to low hw layer helps a little, but it doesn't by weak gpu/low ram size so its still crap in the end - that superfast xdr ram won't help one tiny little bit.
And if you slap a console code on pc you know the drill, its not about efficiency but the way it looks. Now if you made the same game entirely for pc it would look much nicer and run better no doubt about that. Well doh its at least 4-6x more powerful so and so.





It was here in EU
6950 300-340 (now 230-260)
6970 350-420 (now 305 -360)
It's not a matter of point of view, and you don't quite seem to be grasping the concepts that I'm talking about as you clearly have misunderstood my statements.

"Yea this direct access to low hw layer helps a little" -- this doesn't make it fast. I don't think you understand the concept of abstraction layers and the benefits of forgoing them, which is easy to do on consoles since you only have to target once device and you know it will always work.

The idea of abstracting graphics routines with languages like OpenGL and Direct X is to provide a portable generalised interface for drawing graphics on the screen. This also applies for languages like C, C++, C#, Java the list goes on. It's the generalisation of the these languages that makes it hard to optimise as there's not a lot you can really do if you want to reach all your target platforms, keep compatibility and keep down costs of maintenance.

If you work with consoles you can just go optimise a lot of your code by using assembly language or being hardcore and going straight to machine language (you mad!). By profiling your code on a console you can exactly where you can gain extra horse power by rescheduling code and making better use of available resources.

There's also the fact that the 360 and PS3 have monster IBM processors in them with an architecture geared towards media (excellent vector processing capabilities) the likes of which I would say is only closely mimicked by an AMD APU.
   
Old
  (#109)
pokerapar88
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Default 12-04-2011, 12:29 | posts: 1,638 | Location: Argentina // Buenos Aires

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laykun View Post
It's not a matter of point of view, and you don't quite seem to be grasping the concepts that I'm talking about as you clearly have misunderstood my statements.

"Yea this direct access to low hw layer helps a little" -- this doesn't make it fast. I don't think you understand the concept of abstraction layers and the benefits of forgoing them, which is easy to do on consoles since you only have to target once device and you know it will always work.

The idea of abstracting graphics routines with languages like OpenGL and Direct X is to provide a portable generalised interface for drawing graphics on the screen. This also applies for languages like C, C++, C#, Java the list goes on. It's the generalisation of the these languages that makes it hard to optimise as there's not a lot you can really do if you want to reach all your target platforms, keep compatibility and keep down costs of maintenance.

If you work with consoles you can just go optimise a lot of your code by using assembly language or being hardcore and going straight to machine language (you mad!). By profiling your code on a console you can exactly where you can gain extra horse power by rescheduling code and making better use of available resources.

There's also the fact that the 360 and PS3 have monster IBM processors in them with an architecture geared towards media (excellent vector processing capabilities) the likes of which I would say is only closely mimicked by an AMD APU.


Beautifully explained !
   
Old
  (#110)
TheHunter
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Default 12-04-2011, 13:07 | posts: 13,439 | Location: √╥

Not really, more of the same stuff.. And that IBM cpu aint thaat strong either.. Its this low hw layer that saves these crappy consoles as a whole.


Anyway this is going waaaaaaay off topic..
   
 
Old
  (#111)
Laykun
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Default 12-04-2011, 20:48 | posts: 3,216 | Location: New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHunter View Post
Not really, more of the same stuff.. And that IBM cpu aint thaat strong either.. Its this low hw layer that saves these crappy consoles as a whole.


Anyway this is going waaaaaaay off topic..
   
Old
  (#112)
BlackZero
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Default 12-04-2011, 21:02 | posts: 8,105 | Location: United Kingdom

No need for that, no ones trolling. Having Less compatibilty issues/ No bloated OS/ hardware geared for a specific purpose clealry improves console performance in games, no one is disagreeing with that.


let's get back on topic.
   
Old
  (#113)
TheHunter
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Default 12-04-2011, 21:55 | posts: 13,439 | Location: √╥

lmao @ Laykun, what a tool!
   
Old
  (#114)
Laykun
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Default 12-04-2011, 22:13 | posts: 3,216 | Location: New Zealand

Holy wow, the spray works!

All I can say is that I'll be getting the 7990 when it's released along with a 7970 to drive my eye finity setup on BF3 despite all the driver problems I'll probably have.

I hope this coming year AMD will get it's act together and improve on the robustness of their driver. Perhaps they need to develop a new process for building drivers? it just seems to me over the year of 2011 there has been one too many blunders and regressions with the catalyst driver suite. Their hardware is good, it's the drivers that need more work.
   
Old
  (#115)
Veteran
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Default 12-04-2011, 22:28 | posts: 9,014 | Location: United kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laykun View Post
Holy wow, the spray works!

All I can say is that I'll be getting the 7990 when it's released along with a 7970 to drive my eye finity setup on BF3 despite all the driver problems I'll probably have.

I hope this coming year AMD will get it's act together and improve on the robustness of their driver. Perhaps they need to develop a new process for building drivers? it just seems to me over the year of 2011 there has been one too many blunders and regressions with the catalyst driver suite. Their hardware is good, it's the drivers that need more work.
Im tempted to go for AMD this time around but the drivers man,i dunno what to do tbh.
   
Old
  (#116)
The Postman
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Default 12-04-2011, 23:20 | posts: 1,666 | Location: Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veteran View Post
Im tempted to go for AMD this time around but the drivers man,i dunno what to do tbh.
Veteran

With a single card solution doesnt really matter either brand. Multi-gpu as you know there can be issues especially for new games.
   
Old
  (#117)
HonoredShadow
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Default 12-04-2011, 23:25 | posts: 3,093 | Location: UK

Why has TheHunter been banned? I have checked this threads and latest posts and I can't see anything he has written to warrant a ban. Maybe I'm missing something...
   
Old
  (#118)
sykozis
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Default 12-05-2011, 00:01 | posts: 15,598 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by HonoredShadow View Post
Why has TheHunter been banned? I have checked this threads and latest posts and I can't see anything he has written to warrant a ban. Maybe I'm missing something...
Don't expect to get an explanation.... in most cases, it is something we're all missed, and usually for good reason.



Remember: Ask not what the user said, nor why for what the mod did....
   
Old
  (#119)
pokerapar88
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Default 12-05-2011, 00:45 | posts: 1,638 | Location: Argentina // Buenos Aires

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Veteran

With a single card solution doesnt really matter either brand. Multi-gpu as you know there can be issues especially for new games.
Yeah, but lately AMD's drivers have been having issues in single GPU combos too.
   
Old
  (#120)
Rich_Guy
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Default 12-05-2011, 00:49 | posts: 8,168 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by HonoredShadow View Post
Why has TheHunter been banned? I have checked this threads and latest posts and I can't see anything he has written to warrant a ban. Maybe I'm missing something...
Hope its not a perma ban, and he'll be back soon.
   
Old
  (#121)
Laykun
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Default 12-05-2011, 01:08 | posts: 3,216 | Location: New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veteran View Post
Im tempted to go for AMD this time around but the drivers man,i dunno what to do tbh.
Generally issues get resolved over time, it's just that Multi-GPU setups seem to get a few initial problems. When BF3 came out I had to run it in windowed mode as a work around for having no HUD (eyefinity just broke the whole game even when using single screen resolutions) but now it's absolutely rock solid with the new BF3 patches (not actually an AMD issue). it's just something you come to expect with having a multi-GPU multi-screen setup, but the pay-off is well worth it as BF3 is the smoothest most visually pleasent experience I've ever had (not to mention the awesome online gameplay).

I'm sure you're already used to that having 2 295s and all.
   
Old
  (#122)
The Postman
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Default 12-05-2011, 01:08 | posts: 1,666 | Location: Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerapar88 View Post
Yeah, but lately AMD's drivers have been having issues in single GPU combos too.
Like what?
   
Old
  (#123)
Beast
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Default 12-05-2011, 01:09 | posts: 871

I keep seeing the HD 5970 (OEM) pop up on newegg for $300...a little more than the HD 6950 that I own...it's pretty damn tempting...eh..I think I'll just stick it out and get a single HD 7970 it looks like it will be a better option.
   
Old
  (#124)
HonoredShadow
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Default 12-05-2011, 08:48 | posts: 3,093 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_Guy View Post
Hope its not a perma ban, and he'll be back soon.
Yer me to. We are loosing way to many people. We have actually gone from one extreme to another now because so many people (including myself) wanted the place to be less aggressive towards each other.

Anyway back on topic sadly...
   
Old
  (#125)
Dublin_Gunner
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Default 12-05-2011, 11:07 | posts: 4,632 | Location: Dublin, Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Like what?
Yeah, I haven't really noticed any issues on a single card setup.
   
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