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Jeremy
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Default First DSLR - 05-30-2011, 00:37 | posts: 4,072 | Location: -

Fairly straightforward question. Want to get my first DSLR. I am interested in doing some photography but also want a good camera for travelling. Was so pissed off when I went to New York with just a point-and-shoot camera.

Had my eye on a Canon 1000d and also the rebel t3. What do you think?

Don't want to spend much more than the price of those two since it is my first proper camera...
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 02:00 | posts: 4,383 | Location: Recife, Brazil

if you can find a used t1i, it would be a much better deal than those cameras. the t3 is good for it's price but imo it doesnt match a t1i/t2i.
if you're able to find those cameras used for about the same price as the t3, go with either of them, much better choice.

however if you're not able to, go for the t3.
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 05:52 | posts: 6,806 | Location: Dubai, UAE / London, UK

I suggest Canon 60D or Nikon D3000, cannot go wrong with either...
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 07:23 | posts: 1,754 | Location: Oxford UK

Just remember that a dslr wont magically make you a better photographer and to get the most out of one, you're gonna need some decent lenses and those cost money.
   
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kanej2007
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Default 05-30-2011, 08:05 | posts: 6,806 | Location: Dubai, UAE / London, UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Repo Man View Post
Just remember that a dslr wont magically make you a better photographer and to get the most out of one, you're gonna need some decent lenses and those cost money.
You forgot to mention a GOOD photographer too

No good getting expensive gear but do not properly know how to use the camera or take proper photos...
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 09:50 | posts: 384 | Location: Treacle Town

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/...e-_-rotate1_bh

Im not a big fan on Jessops in general as they tend to charge a lot, but they have some great buys this bank holiday like this one.
Canon EOS 500D + 18-55mm + 75-300mm Twin Lens Kit 579.95 was 749.95

ps. ive seen some good pictures coming from the cheapest of cameras some times better than an expensive one.
As its not the camera that makes a good picture!
Theres a debate.

Last edited by Dual Core; 05-30-2011 at 09:53.
   
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kanej2007
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Default 05-30-2011, 09:52 | posts: 6,806 | Location: Dubai, UAE / London, UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dual Core View Post
http://www.jessops.com/online.store/...e-_-rotate1_bh

Im not a big fan on Jessops in general as they tend to charge a lot, but they have some great buys this bank holiday like this one.
Canon EOS 500D + 18-55mm + 75-300mm Twin Lens Kit 579.95 was 749.95
Wow, giveaway price, great for a first timer and he even gets 2 basic kit lenses...
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 10:15 | posts: 1,567

But whats the point in showing him a link to Jessops? His location is New Zealand...
OR do they have jessops there too?

The t3 would be a great camera for you, its built for beginners, and has visual aids there to help you learn the functions of the camera. Its sort of like having the manual there while you're shooting, but without having to flip through the pages as you shoot.
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 10:52 | posts: 4,072 | Location: -

Cheers for the help guys. Don't worry, I am well aware of the skill vs good gear ratio. Having taught myself guitar for a few years now I am all to well aware of beginners rushing in to buying decent gear but still not sounding good. So in regards to that I don't want to go buying additional lenses just yet. Fortunatley I do have a good friend whos fairly experienced with photography who should be able to give me some advice

I am fairly certain I will get something along the lines of a t3, not sure if its a big issue with regards to the fact its only shooting 720 hd videos - although that will likely only be 5-10% of the camera usage for me.

Any sites with beginners tips to photography and what numbers should I focus on when buying a camera. I understand not to worry too much about 12mp over 18mp since at my skill level theres probably negligible difference anyhow?

Cheers!
   
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sirrith
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Default 05-30-2011, 11:29 | posts: 1,567

Don't bother with megapixels, DSLR these days has enough. Focus on lenses more than the body.
   
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Svein_Skogen
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Default 05-30-2011, 11:39 | posts: 1,231 | Location: Skedsmokorset, Norway

When you enter the dSLR systems, you're going for a system, not just a camera body. Chose the camera body based on which system has the optics you want available, and what camera body "feels best" in your hands. There are subtle differences between the nikon and canon way of doing things (zoom and focus rotates the opposite direction, the front wheel and shutter release are placed differently, etc). Don't just count pixels (as you will find out there are plenty enough on most bodies today), but look at the quality of those pixels. And unless you need an almost weightless system (to actually bother bringing it with you) don't buy a camera body that is "too small" for your hands (I'm hamfisted enough to need the MB-D10 grip on my D300 to make it fit my hands)...

And please: Don't buy into the arguments of those who consider gadgetry branding their religion. They're certifiable nutjobs, the lot of them.

//Svein
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 11:45 | posts: 6,806 | Location: Dubai, UAE / London, UK

^What he said.

also look at Pentax, Sony & Olympus...
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 12:00 | posts: 4,072 | Location: -

Thanks for the feedback guys. Do you have any suggestions of camera from those other brands? (I prefer getting opinions from people I trust rather than reading amazon reviews).

I really only chose Canon from knowledge they were a fairly decent company/brand.

Any specific numbers I need to look at for the lenses. I like to take photos of buildings, over say, scenery but I doubt I will get extra lenses right from the word go so I would prefer to buy a camera with a lense thats fairly suitable for that type of shooting if possible.

Cheers!
   
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Svein_Skogen
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Default 05-30-2011, 13:31 | posts: 1,231 | Location: Skedsmokorset, Norway

Based on available optics (and the price of what's available), I'd stick to Nikon or Canon for APS-C (DX) or 35mm (FX) format cameras. If you're insanely rich, go for Leica or Mamiya (but be advised that the cameras, and optics for them, will set you back about as much as a car). The Nikkor-F and Canon EF mounts have the absolutely best coverage when it comes to optics. Period.

If you need to save money, go for a cheaper body, and expensive lens, not the other way around. You'll get better pictures with a "previous generation" body and good optics, than with a state-of-the-art body and plastic-fantastic lens.

You can also look into previous-gen "pro" bodies, that are available cheap for factory-refurbished versions. A Nikon D2x (or D2xs) with a decent 24-70 will give you National-Geographic-grade pictures if used right.

I assume the same holds for Canon bodies (but being a Nikon user, I haven't spent much time studying canon gear).

If you go the Nikon route, keep an eye on Thom Hogan's pages. He usually tests stuff properly (and he writes a better manual for the equipment than Nikon does themselves). I'm sure others can chime in for similar tests on other brands.

//Svein
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 14:02 | posts: 1,567

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svein_Skogen View Post

You can also look into previous-gen "pro" bodies, that are available cheap for factory-refurbished versions. A Nikon D2x (or D2xs) with a decent 24-70 will give you National-Geographic-grade pictures if used right.
Actually you don't need anything near a "pro" body for Natgeo grade stuff. You need perfect technique, perfect lighting, and the knack of being in the right place at the right time. You could take a picture on a 6 year old compact and still make it to the front cover provided you have the skill/luck

I wouldn't recommend a pro body for a first time user anyway, they have way too many functions for a beginner to get the hang of, and they'll probably end up producing worse results than a lower end body simply because you have to set all the metering, AF modes etc etc... and that is much easier on the entry level bodies as they're geared toward people with little to no SLR experience.
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 16:09 | posts: 4,383 | Location: Recife, Brazil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svein_Skogen View Post
Based on available optics (and the price of what's available), I'd stick to Nikon or Canon for APS-C (DX) or 35mm (FX) format cameras. If you're insanely rich, go for Leica or Mamiya (but be advised that the cameras, and optics for them, will set you back about as much as a car). The Nikkor-F and Canon EF mounts have the absolutely best coverage when it comes to optics. Period.

If you need to save money, go for a cheaper body, and expensive lens, not the other way around. You'll get better pictures with a "previous generation" body and good optics, than with a state-of-the-art body and plastic-fantastic lens.

You can also look into previous-gen "pro" bodies, that are available cheap for factory-refurbished versions. A Nikon D2x (or D2xs) with a decent 24-70 will give you National-Geographic-grade pictures if used right.

I assume the same holds for Canon bodies (but being a Nikon user, I haven't spent much time studying canon gear).

If you go the Nikon route, keep an eye on Thom Hogan's pages. He usually tests stuff properly (and he writes a better manual for the equipment than Nikon does themselves). I'm sure others can chime in for similar tests on other brands.

//Svein
this, decide only between nikon and canon. sony isn't all that great until you get to the pro stuff, wich is more than you are willing to pay. pentax is hit and miss, the same with olympus.

for nikon, get a used D90. seriously, this is the best bang for your buck if you go the nikon route, as it's alot better than anything else in it's price range.
and for canon, i still say go the t1i route.
   
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Default 05-30-2011, 18:05 | posts: 2,236 | Location: USA

Awesome instructional channel on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/snapfact...5A73FEA8B7D7D2
   
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Svein_Skogen
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Default 05-30-2011, 19:18 | posts: 1,231 | Location: Skedsmokorset, Norway

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirrith View Post
Actually you don't need anything near a "pro" body for Natgeo grade stuff. You need perfect technique, perfect lighting, and the knack of being in the right place at the right time. You could take a picture on a 6 year old compact and still make it to the front cover provided you have the skill/luck
Sure, but AF in poor light, and proper weatherseals (because rain tends to home in on you when you're waiting for an animal), does help a lot. Hence my advise for getting a used D2x. They go for about the same as the D90 does, has a better sensor, and better logic for the AF. And it has weatherseals and the durability of a tractor.

//Svein
   
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kanej2007
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Default 05-30-2011, 19:56 | posts: 6,806 | Location: Dubai, UAE / London, UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svein_Skogen View Post
Sure, but AF in poor light, and proper weatherseals (because rain tends to home in on you when you're waiting for an animal), does help a lot. Hence my advise for getting a used D2x. They go for about the same as the D90 does, has a better sensor, and better logic for the AF. And it has weatherseals and the durability of a tractor.

//Svein
He could also look for a used D300, brilliant camera, was my first slr.
   
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sirrith
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Default 05-30-2011, 20:30 | posts: 1,567

Honestly I don't get why people keep recommending used pro level gear for people first starting off... Sure its good, but its expensive, you can get better functionality from current entry level (high ISO performance, live view, larger LCD), entry level stuff is designed for beginners etc... It just doesn't make sense. Even as an upgrade for someone who knows their way around DSLRs, you get so much more from newer "prosumer" level stuff than you do from last generation pro gear. Unless you need the insane FPS or for whatever reason full frame, there's no good reason to go for old pro gear.

An example: Canon 1DII (~same price used as d2x) vs t3.
1DII:
more FPS
larger sensor
faster shutter speed
weather sealing

t3:
larger screen
live view
shoots movies
better ISO performance
higher ISO
more MP
way cheaper (as in, half the cost, not including the lens for the 1D)

So the 1DII would be great for someone who knows exactly what they want to shoot, as in sports, but the T3 is clearly the winner for someone just starting out in the DSLR world. Why? Because thats what it was designed for.

A good used d2X w/o lens also costs about $500 more than a new t3 with kit lens, so thats clearly out of budget.

And do you really think someone who's just buying his first DSLR is going to be out there in the rain, waiting for hours on end, to shoot wildlife?
   
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Svein_Skogen
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Default 05-30-2011, 23:42 | posts: 1,231 | Location: Skedsmokorset, Norway

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanej2007 View Post
He could also look for a used D300, brilliant camera, was my first slr.
I couldn't agree more about it being a brilliant body. Still use mine. Daily.

//Svein
   
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Default 05-31-2011, 00:03 | posts: 4,383 | Location: Recife, Brazil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svein_Skogen View Post
I couldn't agree more about it being a brilliant body. Still use mine. Daily.

//Svein
i agree too, great camera. i love mine, but most of you are forgetting his price range.

D300 and pro bodies like d2x or whatever is more than he wants to pay.
   
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Default 05-31-2011, 00:12 | posts: 4,072 | Location: -

Do camera hold their value well if kept in good condition? Also what do camera like the T3 have in terms of weather durability? Is rain an absolute no-go (even just spitting?)

Cheers
   
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sirrith
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Default 05-31-2011, 09:04 | posts: 1,567

Watch these:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DigitalR.../2/D1tTBncIsm8

http://www.youtube.com/user/DigitalR.../0/FWzsXeXCwuc

Take them with a pinch of salt, but the tests are real, not faked.

The entry level bodies are not weather sealed, but truthfully, unless you intend to go out in hurricanes and sandstorms, you don't need it.

Camera bodies don't hold their value anywhere near as well as lenses, simply because the technology in them becomes outdated pretty much every year when the manufacturers release new models, which is why I don't recommend buying an old last-gen body, since you'll be buying something quite badly outdated, especially on your budget.
   
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Default 05-31-2011, 09:10 | posts: 4,072 | Location: -

Thanks once again . I actually think I may pay a bit more and get the t3i (which is the EOS 600d for me). It has 1080 HD video which really appeals to me. I have been thinking and I am selling one of my guitar amps at the moment so will have a bit extra to spend. This camera + lens kit goes for $1200 NZ which isn't too bad.

I am fairly confident I will use this camera for a long time and get good use out of it. Do you think it's too much for a beginner?
   
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