Guru3D.com Forums

Go Back   Guru3D.com Forums > Hardware > General Hardware
General Hardware Want to talk about anything Hardware related? This is the place, you can discuss it here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
TFT vs IPS, which one?
Old
  (#1)
shoja
Maha Guru
 
shoja's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 570 SuperClocked
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: Asus Maximus IV R.O.G
Memory: Mushkin 2x4@1600 CAS 7
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX
PSU: Rosewill 1000W
Default TFT vs IPS, which one? - 03-15-2011, 06:46 | posts: 1,664 | Location: USA

I was 1 click away from buying the ASUS VG236HE 23" (Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-104-_-Product ) but thought I would ask before I buy.

I like the monitor but some people have been having 'green tint' problem with the screen and when googled, some suggest to go IPS instead if one can afford it and yes I can afford it. Now I am confused if I should go IPS(Dell ultrasharp u2410 $500) or TFT(Asus)?

Also is there a huge difference between 120hz and 60hz? Because right now I have my samsung 226bw at 1680x1050@60hz and my games run just fine.

Thanks!
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#2)
Julepalme
Master Guru
 
Julepalme's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX580 OC'ed
Processor: i5-2500K @ 4.5
Mainboard: Asus P8P67 Pro
Memory: 2x4GB 1600mhz 8-8-8-24
Soundcard: Xonar Essence STX + PC350
PSU: Corsair AX850
Default 03-15-2011, 07:08 | posts: 386 | Location: Denmark

Yeah it's the some question.. well nearly.. that i've been pondering myself for a long while now.

Get a BenQ xl2410t, 23.6", 120hz, led backlight, TN panel.

It'd probably be great for gaming from what i see in reviews.

Or i could get the Dell U2410 which is similar to the above except 60hz and an ips panel, also slightly more expensive.


What i really want is a monitor thats only marginally (or i'd except slightly) more expensive and be a 120hz ips :-(

but im just not sure if its out there yet.

And to answer your question.. yes 120hz is a pretty big difference in a pc monitor, my friend has one, and i'm quite jealous, looks great.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
shoja
Maha Guru
 
shoja's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 570 SuperClocked
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: Asus Maximus IV R.O.G
Memory: Mushkin 2x4@1600 CAS 7
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX
PSU: Rosewill 1000W
Default 03-15-2011, 07:12 | posts: 1,664 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julepalme View Post
Yeah it's the some question.. well nearly.. that i've been pondering myself for a long while now.

Get a BenQ xl2410t, 23.6", 120hz, led backlight, TN panel.

It'd probably be great for gaming from what i see in reviews.

Or i could get the Dell U2410 which is similar to the above except 60hz and an ips panel, also slightly more expensive.


What i really want is a monitor thats only marginally (or i'd except slightly) more expensive and be a 120hz ips :-(

but im just not sure if its out there yet.

And to answer your question.. yes 120hz is a pretty big difference in a pc monitor, my friend has one, and i'm quite jealous, looks great.
What does hz help with? Less blur?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
Sever
Ancient Guru
 
Sever's Avatar
 
Videocard: Galaxy 3GB 660TI
Processor: i7 2600k - XSPC Raystorm
Mainboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme9
Memory: 16gb Corsair Vengeance
Soundcard: Asus Xonar D2X
PSU: Silverstone Gold 1200w
Default 03-15-2011, 07:52 | posts: 4,826 | Location: Land of the Great Downunder

when your graphics card renders more frames than your monitor can display, you get screen tearing. 60hz monitors can only render 60 frames per second, so if your card renders 120fps, you'll notice screen tearing. however, if your monitor is 120hz, it can handle 120fps and as a result, you wont notice screen tearing. games will look smoother overall.

the main benefit of 120hz is that it supports nvidia 3d vision and various other 3d type enhancements.

at the moment, ive got a 37inch IPS panel TV. despite being only 1920x1080, its surprisingly sharp and the colours are pretty good. people will tell you that TFTs have better response time, but the difference is not noticeable unless you have a camera that can capture 1000fps. so far playing on a TV hasnt reduced my score at all in fps games so i dont see it being an issue at all.
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#5)
shoja
Maha Guru
 
shoja's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 570 SuperClocked
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: Asus Maximus IV R.O.G
Memory: Mushkin 2x4@1600 CAS 7
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX
PSU: Rosewill 1000W
Default 03-15-2011, 08:56 | posts: 1,664 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sever View Post
when your graphics card renders more frames than your monitor can display, you get screen tearing. 60hz monitors can only render 60 frames per second, so if your card renders 120fps, you'll notice screen tearing. however, if your monitor is 120hz, it can handle 120fps and as a result, you wont notice screen tearing. games will look smoother overall.

the main benefit of 120hz is that it supports nvidia 3d vision and various other 3d type enhancements.

at the moment, ive got a 37inch IPS panel TV. despite being only 1920x1080, its surprisingly sharp and the colours are pretty good. people will tell you that TFTs have better response time, but the difference is not noticeable unless you have a camera that can capture 1000fps. so far playing on a TV hasnt reduced my score at all in fps games so i dont see it being an issue at all.
So I guess go for IPS? 60fps is all I need.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
Sever
Ancient Guru
 
Sever's Avatar
 
Videocard: Galaxy 3GB 660TI
Processor: i7 2600k - XSPC Raystorm
Mainboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme9
Memory: 16gb Corsair Vengeance
Soundcard: Asus Xonar D2X
PSU: Silverstone Gold 1200w
Default 03-15-2011, 10:52 | posts: 4,826 | Location: Land of the Great Downunder

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoja View Post
So I guess go for IPS? 60fps is all I need.
yup, thats my recommendation. best solution would be for you to go check one out for yourself. its always better to try before you buy.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
burebista
Maha Guru
 
burebista's Avatar
 
Videocard: MSI GTX 760 Gaming Twin F
Processor: i5-2500K Ninja 3 fanless
Mainboard: ASRock P67 Extreme4
Memory: Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600MHz
Soundcard: Xonar D1
PSU: Antec Signature 650
Default 03-15-2011, 11:01 | posts: 1,661 | Location: Romania

Make a simple test in a supermarket or so: look at an *IPS/*VA panel next to a TN panel. Look at colors (especially black) and viewing angles and see if a TN panel worth the money.
I have a BenQ EW2420 (A-MVA LED panel) and I never look back at any TN panel.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
Black_ice_Spain
Ancient Guru
 
Black_ice_Spain's Avatar
 
Videocard: 970GTX 4gb
Processor: 2500K @ 4.4 / 1.28v
Mainboard: Z77P-D3
Memory: 8gb 1600 CL9
Soundcard: Xonar DG
PSU: AC Strike-X 600W
Default 03-15-2011, 11:23 | posts: 4,410 | Location: Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by burebista View Post
Make a simple test in a supermarket or so: look at an *IPS/*VA panel next to a TN panel. Look at colors (especially black) and viewing angles and see if a TN panel worth the money.
I have a BenQ EW2420 (A-MVA LED panel) and I never look back at any TN panel.
same, that benq panel its awesome (i have it too), altho if you are sentivity to ghosting (im not) then you are doomed.

I would only pick 120hz over IPS only for 3d, but 3d requires too much $$ and such that i wont spend now, at least while i need to wear glasses to see it...
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
TruMutton_200Hz
Ancient Guru
 
TruMutton_200Hz's Avatar
 
Videocard: N/A
Processor: i3 3110M
Mainboard: MD 99070 Medion Akoya
Memory: DDR-3 4gig
Soundcard: MiniMax DAC Plus, UMC-200
PSU: Li-ion
Default 03-15-2011, 13:15 | posts: 2,760 | Location: Belgium

Mediocre response time is something I always avoid like the plague. I'm happy with my LG 42LH5000 for now because I see no ghosting.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
shoja
Maha Guru
 
shoja's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 570 SuperClocked
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: Asus Maximus IV R.O.G
Memory: Mushkin 2x4@1600 CAS 7
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX
PSU: Rosewill 1000W
Default 03-15-2011, 17:58 | posts: 1,664 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sever View Post
yup, thats my recommendation. best solution would be for you to go check one out for yourself. its always better to try before you buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burebista View Post
Make a simple test in a supermarket or so: look at an *IPS/*VA panel next to a TN panel. Look at colors (especially black) and viewing angles and see if a TN panel worth the money.
I have a BenQ EW2420 (A-MVA LED panel) and I never look back at any TN panel.
The only place close to me is Best buy and they have some of the crappiest moniters ever. I did sort of compared them to iMac displays tho, which looked way better when compared to those tft screens and I didn't know that iMac use IPs until now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_ice_Spain View Post
same, that benq panel its awesome (i have it too), altho if you are sentivity to ghosting (im not) then you are doomed.

I would only pick 120hz over IPS only for 3d, but 3d requires too much $$ and such that i wont spend now, at least while i need to wear glasses to see it...
Yeah screw 3D, I am probably going to go blind if I use 3D lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
Mediocre response time is something I always avoid like the plague. I'm happy with my LG 42LH5000 for now because I see no ghosting.
I completely forgot about the response time. So the Dell 24" has 6ms response and then looked at their 23" one which is 8ms. Think this is going cause ghosting issues for me in gaming?
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#11)
Skiddywinks
Ancient Guru
 
Skiddywinks's Avatar
 
Videocard: Asus Matrix 285
Processor: i5 750 @ 4GHz 1.32v H0
Mainboard: Asus Sabertooth i55
Memory: 4GB OCZ XMP DDR3 1353MHz
Soundcard: Asus Xonar D2X
PSU: Corsair HX1000W
Default 03-15-2011, 18:03 | posts: 4,628 | Location: North Wales

IPS panels are far better in terms of actual image quality. I think I remember anything less than 12ms is more or less negligible (some people might notice some ghosting, most won't). Anything less than that and you are good I would imagine. Of course, YMMV.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
DementeD
Maha Guru
 
Videocard: AMD "6970" 1000/1500
Processor: Core i7 4.2ghz w/HT
Mainboard: Evga X58 LE
Memory: Ocz DDR3 1600 12gbs
Soundcard: Realtek HD
PSU: TT 700w sleeved
Default 03-16-2011, 01:20 | posts: 852 | Location: Tampa, Florida

first off i think theres some confusion going on. TFT is thin film transistor and is a variant of a type of LCD. Nothing to do with the panels themselves as far as TN PVA or IPS go.(theres others but these being the common ones)
so essentially ips is also tft

the order of quality is also like mentioned TN being the worst image quality/viewing angle but with fastest response time ..pva being much better and closer to ips and ips simply being the best.
IMO if you aren't picky and have a single lcd, tn isn't a bad choice..i personally wouldnt want one since ive had PVA since 07 and dont want to "downgrade"

If you want more then a single lcd i wouldnt recommend anything other then PVA/IPS since they have MUCH better viewing angles that would be noticeable in eyefinity/surround gaming.

My overall opinion is go to a local store that sells both, check them out and see the difference in quality..price is usually a good bit more expensive for pva/ips over tn and can come in a 16:10 aspect ratio vs most 16:9 tn panels nowadays.

but basically if you dont mind or dont notice the difference go with the cheaper panel, its whatever makes you happiest
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
Texas Longhorn
Newbie
 
Texas Longhorn's Avatar
 
Videocard: NVIDIA Quadro FX 550
Processor: Intel Pentium 4
Mainboard:
Memory:
Soundcard:
PSU: No Idea
Default 03-16-2011, 07:19 | posts: 3 | Location: Texas

I just got the Dell u2410 about 2 weeks ago and it's amazing. The monitor I had before this was the Samsung Syncmaster I believe it's called and this IPS blows it out of the water. Granted I don't have a huge amount of experience in monitors but going off reviews I went the IPS route with Dell (it was on sale for $449, down from $599) and it's been amazing. I've hooked the PS3 up to it to watch Blu Ray discs and the viewing angels are great and HD wallpapers are awesome.

I just made a thread about building a gaming pc (my current pc is garbage) so I can't speak on how it handles gaming but thankfully I have NO problems with the u2410 (no pink/green tint issues, dead pixels, etc). All I did was move the brightness down a few notches and it looks great (I'm no professional photographer nor do I have calibration software).

I know ASUS just released this P-IPS monitor but I pulled the trigger on the Dell while it was on sale since there was basically no reviews of the ASUS monitor at that time. Perhaps it could even be better than the u2410. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236119
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
TruMutton_200Hz
Ancient Guru
 
TruMutton_200Hz's Avatar
 
Videocard: N/A
Processor: i3 3110M
Mainboard: MD 99070 Medion Akoya
Memory: DDR-3 4gig
Soundcard: MiniMax DAC Plus, UMC-200
PSU: Li-ion
Default 03-16-2011, 08:05 | posts: 2,760 | Location: Belgium

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoja View Post
I completely forgot about the response time. So the Dell 24" has 6ms response and then looked at their 23" one which is 8ms. Think this is going cause ghosting issues for me in gaming?
Response times are nowadays measured as Gray-to-Gray but this is only one aspect of the response time in the real world. So basically, a manufacturer can just focus research and development on Gray-to-Gray improvements and neglect the other aspects, even though the Gray-to-Gray aspect alone says squat about picture quality. The reason why manufacturers have chosen Gray-to-Gray measurements is because, of all of the aspects, it's the cheapest one to accurately (half accurately) measure while most of the other aspects are not even always applicable, depending on the panel technology and implementation used in the consumer product.

So manufacturers can cheat but that's not all of it yet. To make matters worse, not every human is equally susceptible to the negative effects of a bad response time. Some say they don't see motion blur on most LCD displays rated 5 ms, whereas some say they need 2 ms. But even if you don't seee motion blur, it's still possible the negative effects, although invisible to you, will start to kick in after you've been non stop gaming on the display for several hours. And bad response time is also not the only thing that causes eyestrain, by the way. The best piece of advice I can offer you is: use your own eyes.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
burebista
Maha Guru
 
burebista's Avatar
 
Videocard: MSI GTX 760 Gaming Twin F
Processor: i5-2500K Ninja 3 fanless
Mainboard: ASRock P67 Extreme4
Memory: Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600MHz
Soundcard: Xonar D1
PSU: Antec Signature 650
Default 03-16-2011, 08:50 | posts: 1,661 | Location: Romania

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
[...] not every human is equally susceptible to the negative effects of a bad response time.
^^QFT
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
The best piece of advice I can offer you is: use your own eyes.
Again QFT.

If choosing a CPU/MB/GPU/RAM is easy because you look at some graphs and then in your wallet, choosing a case, a monitor or some audio equipment is purely a subjective choice because we all have different tastes and perceptions.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#16)
shoja
Maha Guru
 
shoja's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 570 SuperClocked
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K
Mainboard: Asus Maximus IV R.O.G
Memory: Mushkin 2x4@1600 CAS 7
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX
PSU: Rosewill 1000W
Default 03-16-2011, 13:18 | posts: 1,664 | Location: USA

I am going to hit best buy up for comparison but I doubt they will have any 120hz moniters or Dell IPS.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#17)
Laykun
Ancient Guru
 
Laykun's Avatar
 
Videocard: 2 x EVGA GTX670 4GB
Processor: i7 980X
Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7
Memory: 18GB DDR3 1600
Soundcard: Xonar DX / Denon AH-D7000
PSU: 850W CM Silent Pro M850
Default 03-16-2011, 13:28 | posts: 3,221 | Location: New Zealand

I'm going to have to say go for the IPS panel. If you can find an HP ZR24w they are quite good for gaming with a decent response time and excellent colour.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
vurt
Master Guru
 
vurt's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX TITAN
Processor: i7 2600k@4.8GHz
Mainboard: ASUS SaberTooth B3 P67
Memory: CORSAIR Dominator 8GB
Soundcard: ESI Juli@, Tannoy Reveal
PSU: Fractal Design Newton R2
Default 03-16-2011, 16:51 | posts: 251 | Location: Sweden

I just bought an IPS, the HP LP2475w, really happy with my purchase. I was first looking at the Dell u2410, but it seemed less impressive from reading numerous reviews and user comments about both screens.

Very good response time (for some reason it looks more fluid than on my old 2ms Benq - a TN screen that has gotten many positive comments from gamers and in reviews regarding its response time) and very good blacks (better than the other IPS screens from what i've understood).

The image is very "3D" which is usuallly what i look for to judge game/video quality. With my old TN the picture was very flat in comparison. Colors really stands out without being oversaturated.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
superweapons
Master Guru
 
superweapons's Avatar
 
Videocard: XFX GTX 260 Core 216
Processor: Intel C2Q Q6600 G0 @ 3GHz
Mainboard: Gigabyte P35-DS3L
Memory: 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR2
Soundcard: SIIG 7.1 PCI + Senn HD201
PSU: OCZ MXSP 700W
Default 03-21-2011, 07:25 | posts: 696

You may want to consider the Dell U2311H. It too uses an IPS panel but it costs a lot less. Instead of the H-IPS found in the U2410, the U2311H utilizes an E-IPS panel which requires less backlight power, hence the significantly reduced price. Image quality is slightly lower, but it still beats the heck out of any TN panel. When it's on sale, it's usually in the low $200's (purchasing directly from Dell), a no-brainer for anyone considering a mid-range TN monitor. Of course, you've got the money to go for a nicer U2410, but it's still worth considering the other option of buying two U2311H's when they drop down again.

According to TFTCentral, the U2311H's effective response time (accounting for RTC and everything else) is as good as the U2410's.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
waway625
Ancient Guru
 
waway625's Avatar
 
Videocard: Powercolor R9 280X/ 3Gb
Processor: i7 950 @ 3.8Ghz HT ON
Mainboard: Rampage III Formula
Memory: 6Gb Corsair PC12800
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DG
PSU: Antec TP New 650W
Default 03-21-2011, 07:34 | posts: 7,951 | Location: Singapore

+1 on the u2311h, Im using one and I love it! the difference between the u2311h and my TN panel monitor in the office (Samsung 2233) is definitely noticeable especially since I do a lot of 3d modelling..As for games, my u2311h is fine playing BC2 and my other fps games so the response time isnt an issue
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#21)
anticupidon
Maha Guru
 
anticupidon's Avatar
 
Videocard: Sapphire HD5850 Extreme
Processor: i7 860 3.6 Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS P7PP5D
Memory: 2x4 GB Kingston HyperX
Soundcard: Via on-board
PSU: Corsair HX 750
Default 03-21-2011, 23:29 | posts: 2,211 | Location: far,far from home

upgrading from a samsung 226bw to a dell u2311h i can really say that is a difference
now i can't stand my old samsung
sorry but ips panels are really great
go for ips
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#22)
waway625
Ancient Guru
 
waway625's Avatar
 
Videocard: Powercolor R9 280X/ 3Gb
Processor: i7 950 @ 3.8Ghz HT ON
Mainboard: Rampage III Formula
Memory: 6Gb Corsair PC12800
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DG
PSU: Antec TP New 650W
Default 03-22-2011, 16:47 | posts: 7,951 | Location: Singapore

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoja View Post
I completely forgot about the response time. So the Dell 24" has 6ms response and then looked at their 23" one which is 8ms. Think this is going cause ghosting issues for me in gaming?
I havent had any ghosting or any response time related problems with my u2311h..the only problem I have is that I now find my office monitor annoying to use as the colors look washed out (Samsun 2233) vs the DELL u2311h
   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright (c) 1995-2014, All Rights Reserved. The Guru of 3D, the Hardware Guru, and 3D Guru are trademarks owned by Hilbert Hagedoorn.