Asus xonar DX and logitech z5500 - Page 2

kitch9 · 10-27-2010, 08:01 | posts: 1,855 | Location: Doncaster, England

Ive always understood, that the built in circuitry of the Z5500's sent any frequency of less than 150hz to the sub regardless of what your software settings are, so yes, you could have no output from the subwoofer jack and you'll still get bass from the sub as the receiver on the Z5500's as I said just sends less than 150hz to the sub, and there's no way to stop it.......

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=188656

These guys say the same.

I may be wrong, but you two guys are arguing about settings, and you may be getting exactly the same sound due to the Z5500's internal processing!

This is why setting the satellites to full range or large doesn't actually make any difference to the sound too, as its all treated the same way by the z5500's processor....

gold_heart007 · 10-27-2010, 11:59 | posts: 443 | Location: India, Noida / NCR

^true, when user isn't on 6 channel direct setting, in which Z5500 accepts signals from sound card output directly!

ROBSCIX · 10-27-2010, 13:47 | posts: 16,078 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

Quote:

Originally Posted by gold_heart007

back to previous settings and driver pal.
everything seems just fine. Woofer is thumping and booming as it should be.
thanx anyways for trying.

Well, atleast you gave it a try.
Enjoy.

ROBSCIX · 10-27-2010, 14:23 | posts: 16,078 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

Quote:

Originally Posted by gold_heart007

^true, when user isn't on 6 channel direct setting, in which Z5500 accepts signals from sound card output directly!

Yes, but 6 channel direct is waiting for 6 channels from the audio source.
With your settings you only have 5... No subwoofer output from the card.

ROBSCIX · 10-27-2010, 14:25 | posts: 16,078 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitch9

Ive always understood, that the built in circuitry of the Z5500's sent any frequency of less than 150hz to the sub regardless of what your software settings are, so yes, you could have no output from the subwoofer jack and you'll still get bass from the sub as the receiver on the Z5500's as I said just sends less than 150hz to the sub, and there's no way to stop it.......

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=188656

These guys say the same.

I may be wrong, but you two guys are arguing about settings, and you may be getting exactly the same sound due to the Z5500's internal processing!

This is why setting the satellites to full range or large doesn't actually make any difference to the sound too, as its all treated the same way by the z5500's processor....

No. Changing the cards settings from small to large changes what signals are sent to the sat's and sub from the card. So the signal is changed long before the speakers.

X7007 · **Memory**: 8GB G.Skill 5-5-5-15 1066

Hi, i know this thread is old, but i really want help from you guys if you are still here.

I have Xonar Phoebus + Z5500 Digital, should i use the Flex to 150hz or 80hz for the best bass and sound, and i mean real not booming or artificial/robotic or whatever people call that.

EDIT : using analog

EDIT 2 : What can i possibly do when i'm using it to optical to PS3 ? i will get sucky sound ? compare to the pc ?

RagDoll_Effect · 08-04-2012, 04:46 | posts: 3,922 | Location: Australia

Quote:

Originally Posted by X7007

Hi, i know this thread is old, but i really want help from you guys if you are still here.

I have Xonar Phoebus + Z5500 Digital, should i use the Flex to 150hz or 80hz for the best bass and sound, and i mean real not booming or artificial/robotic or whatever people call that.

EDIT : using analog

EDIT 2 : What can i possibly do when i'm using it to optical to PS3 ? i will get sucky sound ? compare to the pc ?

I would set it to between 80hz-120hz and just hear which sounds deeper

regards,
RagDoll.

ROBSCIX · 08-06-2012, 16:29 | posts: 16,078 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

IIRC, with those speakers, the THX standard they are built to uses 80hz.

I would work with the crossoverpoint and adjust it to taste, some like it a bit higher and some like it a bit lower.

gripper · 08-08-2012, 20:52 | posts: 4

Youre all wrong.
Z5500 are engineered to work as they are, using its own internal crossover.
Logitech engineers set the sub to produce upto 150hz as the satellites are not capable of producing full mid range on their own.
If you set your soundcard to route all frequency below 80hz to sub alone, then where do you think the 80-150hz is going to come from? Setting the crossover frequency is only needed when using custom 5.1 setups, as they have no way of knowing what sounds to route where.

Leave z5500 as it is. It needs no extra settings in windows to work. They knew what they were doing when they set it this way. The satellites are poor, they need the sub to produce upto 150hz to compensate for their lack of size.

ROBSCIX · *Last edited by ROBSCIX; 08-09-2012 at 03:27.*

I don't think you are understanding the system properly.
The system also has an internal crossover but it is only used in certain circumstances.
If they are designed to "work as they are" why do they have a dedicated subwoofer input? The system is designed to use a dedicated subwoofer channel from a surround sound input.

We are talking about 6 channel direct sound so the card produces a signal for EVERY channel. Without the cards X-over setup you will not receive a dedicated LFE/sub channel for your music, games or movies.
You will still have some bass but you will miss the dedicated bass signal.

This speaker system is probably the most incorrectly setup systems for PC speakers. For people that still use those old speakers.

However, set up your speakers as you wish (if you own them).
Without any extra settings in windows or the cards are you are suggesting, that subwoofer input is getting nothing from your card or system so your system is not operating properly.

BTW, you might want to fill out your specifications on what audio gear you are using.

gripper · 08-09-2012, 06:46 | posts: 4

I understand them perfectly, you, however, are over complicating them.
They do not have a dedicated subwoofer input, it is a CENTRE/SUB input, it must be seperate because it shares the centre channel! You have a left and right on the front, left and right on the rear and left and right in centre/sub. 6 channels. Sub is always being fed. Please re read my post where it states sub is producing upto 150hz to complement satellites.
Internal crossover is used always, not in certain circumstances! Sorry to tell you that you are not using this system right. Your way is right for a custom home theatre setup, this is al all in one user friendly system.
You seem to think you know more than the logitech engineers who developed the system, so feel free to contact them and have them tell you that
You do not use a software sound card crossover to feed a hardware crossover, you are starving the internal amp of a large chunk of sound spectrum.

RagDoll_Effect · 08-09-2012, 10:33 | posts: 3,922 | Location: Australia

It's not the same ROBSCIX, as an A/V receiver HT setup, I know and you are correct that if the bass management isn't selected, there is no LFE channel, no crossover and therefore no sound being redirected to a powered subwoofer connected to an A/V receiver. With the z5500, it's designed to not even be used with a dedicated lfe channel, or any soundcard's lfe and crossover. It acts as a complete system regardless and still sends it's own internal bass to the sub. Kind of like a mock lfe. It's true, but this does not mean it's really ideal, because as we both know, a real HT setup is much better

regards,
RagDoll.

ROBSCIX · *Last edited by ROBSCIX; 08-09-2012 at 16:33.*

As I mentioned it can be used with or without the dedicated LFE input....the fact remains the LFE input is STILL there and can be used.
The system has 6 channel direct input, which is 5+1 for the subwoofer. Not 5 and no subwoofer input! Where are you getting that from?!

Specs from the site: "6 channel direct (3 stereo-mini connectors) for 2, 4, or 6 channel PC sound cards"
Froim the manual:
"6 channel Direct: Send all 6 channel from the direct input straight to the amplifier without applying and decoding algorithm."

That's the way I have always seen them connected although you can still use them without the sub input. The system can be used either way...

As I said, set it up however you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RagDoll_Effect

It's not the same ROBSCIX, as an A/V receiver HT setup, I know and you are correct that if the bass management isn't selected, there is no LFE channel, no crossover and therefore no sound being redirected to a powered subwoofer connected to an A/V receiver. With the z5500, it's designed to not even be used with a dedicated lfe channel, or any soundcard's lfe and crossover. It acts as a complete system regardless and still sends it's own internal bass to the sub. Kind of like a mock lfe. It's true, but this does not mean it's really ideal, because as we both know, a real HT setup is much better

regards,
RagDoll.

Yes, I know that and I have seen people connect them up both ways.
The fact still remains that 6 channel direct gives you exactly that, 6 channel input from a soundcard. You can connect them up in stereo and use the internal X-over...or quad..etc but that is NOT what I am refering to here.
From tha manual:
"6 channel Direct: Send all 6 channel from the direct input straight to the amplifier without applying and decoding algorithm."

Long story short, I hear what you guys are saying and yes, depending on how the system is configured for inputs and settings on the control unit it can use the internal X-over or it can use the dedicated subwoofer input.
Both ways are right...depending on what you are trying to acheive.
If you connected up a stereo source, and set the system to use that, the internal X-over would be used and you would have full range sound.
For 6 channel it is different in the setup and usage.

Hope that makes sense.

gripper · 08-09-2012, 16:49 | posts: 4

No, sorry, but you are missing the key fact here, the sats cannot produce from 150 down to 80hz competently, this is why the sub is set to produce upto 150 and no higher. Regardless of what input method.
This is why it is all set to go, just plug in and let it do its thing.the system is designed for optical and coax input also, you are configuring, and have seen them configured, as if the speaker system is a custom 5.1 system. It is not, its a pretty average setup for the average joe who knows nothing about having to configure soundcards etc, just plug and play.
Leave it as it is. I am only posting here to correct misinformation. Setting the crossover to only send 80 and below to the sub, the system has to rely on very poor sats to produce from 150 down to 80. This should not be happening.

ROBSCIX · *Last edited by ROBSCIX; 08-09-2012 at 17:32.*

LOL, I see so now there is a subwoofer input, Are you sure this time?
It seems that is a big key fact you are missing!

We know it is a junk system which is why it is foolish to argue about it. I never said the setup was optimal or even made sense but the fact still remains the system accepts and processes 6 channel direct input. Which lets the user set their own X-over. You can ignore that input and just let the internal X-over do the work but then you are missing a great deal of input from the LFE channel.

You are not correcting any mis-information as there are many different ways to setup the system. You can leave it as it is or you can use the 6 channel direct input, which is WHAT it is there for.
If your setup is the only way, why did they bother installing and allowing for 6 channel direct?
Last post you were suggesting there wasn't even a subwoofer input!?

You seem to be a bit mixed up on the function of a soundcard crossover also. It does not just cut off like a brickwall limiter and the cut off frequency sets the balance between the sats and sub. Some system it works great and other it doesn't. He can try 80 because that is usually what THX is spec'd for so it is a reasonable starting point but chances are 120-200 will probably be the more optimal setting which is why it was mentioned for him to set it to taste. Where the user sets the crossover is not the point.
There is a dedicated LFE input channel, simple as that.

Your just plug it in and leave it theory is not so good considering that is one of the main reasons this system is known for huge boomy drowned out bass. It needs to be setup properly or the system will sound...well, what it is known for.

Set up the speakers as you wish but I would tend to use the inputs the company gave you to use. Personal taste settings are secondary.

gripper · 08-09-2012, 17:28 | posts: 4

Like i said, you believe you know better than logitech designers.

I have no idea what you are talking about with your lol comment by the way.

You are telling people to set around 80hz for the lfe. Z5500 sats cannot handle down to that frequency. THEY NEED THE SUB. YOU ARE STARVING IT.
I am finished with this, you are like a brick wall.

ROBSCIX · 08-09-2012, 17:38 | posts: 16,078 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

Quote:

Originally Posted by gripper

Like i said, you believe you know better than logitech designers.

No, just mentioning that fact that THEY added a dedicated LFE channel input Somthing you suggested wasn;t even there a few posts ago!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gripper

I have no idea what you are talking about with your lol comment by the way.

You are telling people to set around 80hz for the lfe. Z5500 sats cannot handle down to that frequency. THEY NEED THE SUB. YOU ARE STARVING IT.
I am finished with this, you are like a brick wall.

No, I said you can start there and adjust for taste... 120-200 will probably be the optimal area.

I know they need the sub and they need the sub input channel ALSO or did you forget it is there again?
Personal settings are not the point here, the fact of the matter is the system accepts 6 channel direct not 5 channel like you were suggesting.

5 channel input! Best laugh I had all day!
Let's just forget about the sub input!

You seem to keep going on about the designers but you forget they put the sub input channel there for a reason.
Considering this is an on going argument with no basis to the original OP questions. I think it is about done.