can we trust fah?

ra_alfaomega

It wasn't easy for me to write this thread but for some time I am wondering if the cause for which we are so devoted is for real . Are we folding to better understand and stop the most threatening diseases? We are sure that this is what we are doing? Because I don't have so much trust in the governments, corporations and the people that control our lives. And when something big like F@h is happening and is developing then it must be something that THEY want to continue. Why they want our good now? On one side they don't care about us but on the other side we see the contrary. What do you think about this? Am I paranoid? Are my questions pertinent? Speak openly please, like I did...

P.S I am folding 24\7 now and if I am sure that my contribution will change something in better I will gladly do this until the project ends, despite the energy bills

nhlkoho · 11-25-2009, 11:39 | posts: 481 | Location: Washington DC | User is Offline

I would say it's probably for real.
But of course you never know. They could be using all of our processing power to help spy on people.

Roostitup · 11-25-2009, 12:25 | posts: 88 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhlkoho

I would say it's probably for real.
But of course you never know. They could be using all of our processing power to help spy on people.

As long as we are spying on China, it's all good to me!

I don't think they are lying to us, I believe that we are actually folding to help advance science. If they are lying, they are doing a great job! In the end though it's probably a pointless pursuit to try to figure it out because I'm sure that if it was something very secret involving all these creditable organizations that they are spending all their resources to cover it up. It would be a huge risk to do something like this and have the citizens be involved because if someone figures them out than they lose all our trust in science, companies &/or the government. There are many creditable organizations and companies that back this project that could not afford to lose the peoples trust (National science foundation, National institutes of health, Stanford school of medicine & etc). Trust is what keeps order and is what many of these organization rely on to continue to exist and do work. Something like what you've explained is not worth the risk in my opinion. It does seem somewhat off that over 90% (rough guess) of people folding are from western society, considering how many people live in Asia. In the end anything is possible, though. My $.02.

Texter · 11-25-2009, 12:53 | posts: 468 | Location: Netherlands | User is Offline

A GTX295 will still only simulate about 1400 nanoseconds of a protein's life after 24 hours of running at full load, so even supercomputers which may be a 1000 times faster can't make a dent in the work that needs to be done.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...echnology.aspx

ra_alfaomega · 11-25-2009, 15:07 | posts: 18 | Location: Romania,Brasov | User is Offline

Interesting article Texter, so my oc gts 250 can simulate a second of protein folding about in 6 years. Maybe I am wrong (and I hope I am) about F@H but I think that I'm not the only donor that asks himself this questions. Roostitup you have a point,true, but you said <<In the end anything is possible>> so,who knows???

Roostitup · 11-25-2009, 20:58 | posts: 88 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by ra_alfaomega

Interesting article Texter, so my oc gts 250 can simulate a second of protein folding about in 6 years. Maybe I am wrong (and I hope I am) about F@H but I think that I'm not the only donor that asks himself this questions. Roostitup you have a point,true, but you said <<In the end anything is possible>> so,who knows???

I believe that the idea is that small bits of information over time still leads to an increase of knowledge. Just like the people that only get 100 PPD in FAH, granted they don't get much done, but over the course of a few years they will fold as much as someone who decided to fold with their GTX 295 for a couple months. Gaining little bits of knowledge is better than gaining none at all. This is the best we can do at the moment, so we may as well try to get as much information as we can. It can still lead to discoveries, no matter how slow it occurs. Keep in mind that technologies are improving every day, eventually we will have hardware that can simulate this folding much faster. We've got to start somewhere and if we can get the information now we may as well start accumulating it. The opportunity of discovering something new is still there, no matter how slowly we progress. We will never learn if we don't do anything.

*Sure 24 hours of individual folding only produces nanoseconds of a proteins life, but with all of us working together as a whole we get much more information. It all adds up to create a bigger picture!

PHJF · 11-25-2009, 21:07 | posts: 1,101 | Location: NC | User is Online

F@H is a top secret black ops government project to create Skynet.

Unplug your Cat5 before it's too late! Quick!

deltatux · 11-25-2009, 21:27 | posts: 7,231 | Location: Toronto, Canada | User is Offline

Oh well, of course I would want it to do good, but hey, at least I'm getting my value out of my GPU. Instead of having it sit here most of the time when studying and not gaming, it's doing something useful. I only run F@H whenever the system is on and not gaming. I turn off my system when I sleep and when I know I'll be out for more than 3 hours.

deltatux

crushilista · 11-25-2009, 22:59 | posts: 804 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHJF

F@H is a top secret black ops government project to create Skynet.

Unplug your Cat5 before it's too late! Quick!

Lol ^_^. But yeah I'm curious of what this is going to be used for also. That, and my card is bleh while my processer is pretty good. I don't know how that would fall out.

Romiz · 11-26-2009, 00:13 | posts: 72 | Location: United States | User is Offline

Stanford is using it for uses they have noted. It is already helped progress understanding of some diseases and cancers. They are even helping find cures. So point this is worth it and the US Fed is not even a factor in it.

magicdave26 · 11-26-2009, 00:21 | posts: 553 | Location: UNITED KINGDOM | User is Offline

FAH wont let me with my 5770, says unsupoprted GPU or something

deltatux · *Last edited by deltatux; 11-27-2009 at 09:32.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicdave26

FAH wont let me with my 5770, says unsupoprted GPU or something

You need to wait until Stanford updates F@H to include the 5000 series.

EDIT: Just do this to make it work as options upon boot-up:

Quote:

* -gpu 0
* -forcegpu ati_r700

Source: http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...-as-4870!.aspx

deltatux

sykozis · 11-27-2009, 10:26 | posts: 3,627 | Location: USA | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romiz

Stanford is using it for uses they have noted. It is already helped progress understanding of some diseases and cancers. They are even helping find cures. So point this is worth it and the US Fed is not even a factor in it.

Finding cures is the easy part...convincing drug companies to produce said cure is the hard part. Drug companies don't survive because they willingly produce cures for various diseases....they survive by producing treatments. If we were to cure all known disease over the next 20 years...most of the drug companies would cease to exist. It's all about self-preservation. Regardless of how much processing power is donated to F@H.....cures aren't going to come for most diseases....financially, it's not in the best interest of the drug companies. Healthy people don't buy medications....only sick people do.....drug companies want us to get sick so they can make a profit. I know how it sounds...but it's the truth.

Roostitup · 11-27-2009, 15:48 | posts: 88 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by sykozis

Finding cures is the easy part...convincing drug companies to produce said cure is the hard part. Drug companies don't survive because they willingly produce cures for various diseases....they survive by producing treatments. If we were to cure all known disease over the next 20 years...most of the drug companies would cease to exist. It's all about self-preservation. Regardless of how much processing power is donated to F@H.....cures aren't going to come for most diseases....financially, it's not in the best interest of the drug companies. Healthy people don't buy medications....only sick people do.....drug companies want us to get sick so they can make a profit. I know how it sounds...but it's the truth.

Although that is true, there is also heavy competition within this market, too. A company who produces a cure rather than a treatment will make much more money in the short run by offering something much more valuable and of higher demand to the public. I also know that drug companies understand that eradicating diseases is impossible and they will always have a market to sell their products in, no matter how many diseases get cured by their medicine. New diseases seem come about just as fast as knows diseased get cured.

Romiz · 11-27-2009, 19:56 | posts: 72 | Location: United States | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roostitup

Although that is true, there is also heavy competition within this market, too. A company who produces a cure rather than a treatment will make much more money in the short run by offering something much more valuable and of higher demand to the public. I also know that drug companies understand that eradicating diseases is impossible and they will always have a market to sell their products in, no matter how many diseases get cured by their medicine. New diseases seem come about just as fast as knows diseased get cured.

And the cures being looked at are very important ones. The project target are ones that will not kill the pharmacology companies. They already get payed very little for some drug that are 1000s of times over priced. Their bread and butter is still medications for hypertension, epilepsy, cholesterol, aids (this is in the group that is ultra overpriced), migraine, pain, flu, coman cold and diabetes. Folding is not looking at cure for any of these. Since main there are no cures. Even aids is hard to cure since it fast mutates fast and is not protein based.

IPlayNaked · 11-28-2009, 12:07 | posts: 1,273 | User is Offline

This argument that it is not in the interest of drug companies to produce cures and vaccines is nonsense. The argument that they make more money off treatment, also nonsense. People will pay far more for a cure than a treatment, and once the disease is cured, the companies can move on to another...We'll never ever ever ever run out of diseases and sicknesses to cure, the longer we live, the more of each we'll find.

As for F@H? I think it's legitimate, obviously. but my girlfriend and I joke about it developing a consciousness also.

Roostitup · 11-28-2009, 13:08 | posts: 88 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPlayNaked

This argument that it is not in the interest of drug companies to produce cures and vaccines is nonsense. The argument that they make more money off treatment, also nonsense. People will pay far more for a cure than a treatment, and once the disease is cured, the companies can move on to another...We'll never ever ever ever run out of diseases and sicknesses to cure, the longer we live, the more of each we'll find.

As for F@H? I think it's legitimate, obviously. but my girlfriend and I joke about it developing a consciousness also.

Precisely my point