Phenom TLB disable still in Windows 7

Valagard · *Last edited by Valagard; 11-23-2009 at 22:20.*

I was talking to squall this morning about CPU's, and I just switched to Windows 7, and it hit me I hadn't ran my TLB disable tool since switching to it

To those of you that don't know, the early phenom's had a flaw called a TLB error (Don't ask me what TLB means), which in like, a rare combination fluke of running certain things certain ways would cause the computer to hang/freeze, basically lock up

At first Motherboards had the option to enable or disable the TLB patch at your discretion, however, microsoft having logged tons of complaints about this, pushed a TLB patch into Vista SP1 that automatically applied itself if it even so much as saw a Phenom in the OS kernal. It didn't matter the revision, it didn't matter if the chip had the TLB fix in it, it automatically applied the fix

Now, this fix wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't slow down your computer by 15% for apps, and up to 40% for games, and because microsoft gave no options to turn this TLB fix off, you were up a river if you owned -ANY- phenom revision, even Phenom II's

So I have windows 7 right now on my desktop, all my normal apps open, eating up 14% of my Phenom II, which isn't bad. However, soon as I applied the TLB patch fix, boom, CPU dropped to a steady 9%

Why AMD hasn't gone to hell and back over this is seriously, seriously beyond me. why don't they go up to microsoft and say "Look, the ID's are seperate for B3 Phenom and Phenom II's which have the TLB fixed, why can't you turn off the patch at their discretion and give them back their performance" is beyond me

But just thought I would throw that out there to all you Win7 users, cause yes, the TLB patch is still being applied, even for you fancy Phenom II owners

EDIT: Huh, now the TLB_Diable.exe tool seems to be doing nothing after reboot

I re-checked everything, and now TLB_Disable.exe does nothing at all, perhaps I had just some programs open that were influencing my 7-zip results, along with memory and CPU benchmarks etc

Updated the main post that started this to reflect this note of changes, I guess I was wrong

Pill Monster · 11-21-2009, 09:22 | posts: 7,087 | Location: NZ | User is Offline

AFAIK the problem was with Vista, not the CPU.

IPlayNaked · *Last edited by IPlayNaked; 11-21-2009 at 10:19.*

Huh. I was unaware of this....Though I don't believe it applies to Phenom IIs. This would be more widely known if so..

EDIT: Yeah...I'm calling BS on the Phenom II part.

deltatux · 11-21-2009, 11:11 | posts: 7,231 | Location: Toronto, Canada | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valagard

I was talking to squall this morning about CPU's, and I just switched to Windows 7, and it hit me I hadn't ran my TLB disable tool since switching to it

To those of you that don't know, the early phenom's had a flaw called a TLB error (Don't ask me what TLB means), which in like, a rare combination fluke of running certain things certain ways would cause the computer to hang/freeze, basically lock up

At first Motherboards had the option to enable or disable the TLB patch at your discretion, however, microsoft having logged tons of complaints about this, pushed a TLB patch into Vista SP1 that automatically applied itself if it even so much as saw a Phenom in the OS kernal. It didn't matter the revision, it didn't matter if the chip had the TLB fix in it, it automatically applied the fix

Now, this fix wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't slow down your computer by 15% for apps, and up to 40% for games, and because microsoft gave no options to turn this TLB fix off, you were up a river if you owned -ANY- phenom revision, even Phenom II's

So I have windows 7 right now on my desktop, all my normal apps open, eating up 14% of my Phenom II, which isn't bad. However, soon as I applied the TLB patch fix, boom, CPU dropped to a steady 9%

Why AMD hasn't gone to hell and back over this is seriously, seriously beyond me. why don't they go up to microsoft and say "Look, the ID's are seperate for B3 Phenom and Phenom II's which have the TLB fixed, why can't you turn off the patch at their discretion and give them back their performance" is beyond me

But just thought I would throw that out there to all you Win7 users, cause yes, the TLB patch is still being applied, even for you fancy Phenom II owners

Link to said TLB removal patch?

deltatux

NomadicX · 11-21-2009, 11:18 | posts: 331 | Location: SoCal | User is Offline

Here:

http://www.rebelshavenforum.com/sis-...;f=13;t=000111

deltatux · 11-21-2009, 11:19 | posts: 7,231 | Location: Toronto, Canada | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by NomadicX

Here:

http://www.rebelshavenforum.com/sis-...;f=13;t=000111

I just read that it only works w/ Phenom 95xx and 96xx and for Windows Vista x86/x64, does it work w/ Phenom II and Win7 x86/x64?

deltatux

shadow_419 · 11-21-2009, 11:19 | posts: 572 | Location: Southcoast MA, USA | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valagard

snip

So I have windows 7 right now on my desktop, all my normal apps open, eating up 14% of my Phenom II, which isn't bad. However, soon as I applied the TLB patch fix, boom, CPU dropped to a steady 9%

snip

Which apps are you running? Besides gaming, benching,or stress testing, I 'm rarely above 10%.

NomadicX · 11-21-2009, 11:25 | posts: 331 | Location: SoCal | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltatux

I just read that it only works w/ Phenom 95xx and 96xx and for Windows Vista x86/x64, does it work w/ Phenom II and Win7 x86/x64?

deltatux

It works for me on Win7 x64. Changes MSR values whatever they are. With TLB enabled I get 58 secs in super pi 2m. With it disabled I can run 2m test in 46 secs. Dunno what Win7's original MSR values were though I failed to check before running the TLB fix.

YuKsS · 11-21-2009, 21:24 | posts: 780 | Location: Venezuela | User is Offline

lol i also have this option in my bios, and drive me crazy.. i´m gonna try myself doing son bench a nd monitoring everything else at iddle by having the option enable, and then doing the same with the option disable. so i will have my own results

YuKsS · 11-21-2009, 22:00 | posts: 780 | Location: Venezuela | User is Offline

enable the patch in bios, make my cpu run at 7% of usage doing nothing.. and by disable it make my cpu run at 34% doing nothing.. WTF...

i´m on w7 64bit

i´m gonna try some gaming to see what happen

pimp_gimp

TLB (Translation Lookaside Buffer) was the 1st form of cache in CPU's, and is used by memory management hardware to improve virtual address translation speeds.

Valagard · 11-22-2009, 00:02 | posts: 226 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltatux

I just read that it only works w/ Phenom 95xx and 96xx and for Windows Vista x86/x64, does it work w/ Phenom II and Win7 x86/x64?

deltatux

It works for me with my Phenom II 955

Jack Hair · 11-22-2009, 00:24 | posts: 52 | Location: The Netherlands | User is Offline

It must be some background tasks eating up CPU cycles. I'm getting only 0-10% (stays 0 till I actually do something) CPU usage while surfing, and that's at 1.4GHz (using PhenomMsrTweaker). My mobo doesn't even have a TBL setting in BIOS, and I don't think this patch does something on PhII because it doesn't have that bug. I don't see any difference with or without this patch. (Win 7 x64 Ultimate)

pimp_gimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valagard

It works for me with my Phenom II 955

I have done some research on the subject and it says to not enable the TLB patch in the bios on later processors, as it will cause instability and crash the system. The only chips affected with bug were the "Ba" and "B3" steppings.

randomizer · 11-22-2009, 01:27 | posts: 456 | Location: Australia,melbourne | User is Offline

How do you enable it in the bios? i never seen a feature like this before?

Maybe it will fix random hangs im randomly getting...

Valagard · *Last edited by Valagard; 11-22-2009 at 03:46.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Hair

It must be some background tasks eating up CPU cycles. I'm getting only 0-10% (stays 0 till I actually do something) CPU usage while surfing, and that's at 1.4GHz (using PhenomMsrTweaker). My mobo doesn't even have a TBL setting in BIOS, and I don't think this patch does something on PhII because it doesn't have that bug. I don't see any difference with or without this patch. (Win 7 x64 Ultimate)

I see a instant reduction in CPU use after using the TLB patch, so did NomadicX who saw a huge performance increase after using it and we both have Phenom II's and using Win7 X64

And PhenomMsrTweaker and TLB Disable patch are not the same thing, PhenomMsrTweaker is a CPU tweaker like AMD Overdrive, TLB Disable Patch tells windows to stop correcting the TLB error which it applies to -ANY- Phenom processor, even the Phenom II's from my experience and performance

I was getting 119FPS before the patch in L4D, and was getting 142FPS in L4D after the patch, also my CPU use with all my programs open I have normally (uTorrent, Trillian, 3 firefox pages) my CPU use went from 14% to 9% instantly after applying the patch

YuKsS · *Last edited by YuKsS; 11-22-2009 at 05:05.*

i pm this Psychlone to and he awnser me this:

"Ahhh...the old TLB Erratum.

This was a 'problem' with the first iteration of the Phenom architecture that was fixed with the second generation, the PhenomII architecture.

The 'problem' wasn't ever really an issue in 98+ % of all Phenom machines - only certain circumstances ever even showed this bug...and it got blown so far out of proportion, that it astounds me that so many people actually bagged on AMD and refused to buy their products because of this 'problem' that was never a real problem to begin with.
Like I said, it actually took a specific certain circumstance to even notice this issue, so it really was no big deal.

Nowthen, the TLB bug fix that was implemented on lots of motherboards disabled some of the code sets within the processor itself, and did indeed decrease performance upwards of 18% or more sometimes (usually around 10% on most machines).

For sure, with any architecture since the first Agena cores (9850, 9950, etc.), none of the CPUs after those had the TLB bug, and there's no reason to have the option set to enabled in BIOS anymore.

If it was enabled and you disable it, you'll see a little performance boost - especially if you've benched your system before.
Don't expect miracles, but you will see higher benchmark scores.

Good luck Bro.

Psychlone"

Jack Hair · 11-22-2009, 05:36 | posts: 52 | Location: The Netherlands | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valagard

I see a instant reduction in CPU use after using the TLB patch, so did NomadicX who saw a huge performance increase after using it and we both have Phenom II's and using Win7 X64

And PhenomMsrTweaker and TLB Disable patch are not the same thing, PhenomMsrTweaker is a CPU tweaker like AMD Overdrive, TLB Disable Patch tells windows to stop correcting the TLB error which it applies to -ANY- Phenom processor, even the Phenom II's from my experience and performance

I was getting 119FPS before the patch in L4D, and was getting 142FPS in L4D after the patch, also my CPU use with all my programs open I have normally (uTorrent, Trillian, 3 firefox pages) my CPU use went from 14% to 9% instantly after applying the patch

hmmm where did I say that Mst Tweaker had anything to do with TBL bug? I just pointed out that's why it's at 1.4GHz...

And the patch doesn't do anything for me, when I open the program it just sits there with status: working, and nothing happens. When I benchmark WinRAR I get 24xx KB/s. When TBL patch would've been enabled/working this should be way lower. Maybe it depends on the mobo, I don't have a TBL patch option in my BIOS.

NomadicX · *Last edited by NomadicX; 11-22-2009 at 08:19.*

OK now I did a proper test of this TLB fix.

Win7 x64 original MSR values:
0xC0010015 = 0x01000010 (all cores)
0xC0011023 = 0x10200020 "

TLB_disable:
0xC0010015 = 0x01000011 (all cores)
0xC0011023 = 0x00200020 "

When testing both of these with super pi 2m the results are the same 46 secs for me. Now here's the deal, when enabling the patch which results in these values:

TLB_enable:
0xC0010015 = 0x01000019 (all cores)
0xC0011023 = 0x00200022 "

My super pi 2m run goes up to 58 seconds.

So it seems Win7 x64 does not have this TLB patch built in but this program does apply those patch settings when TLB_enable is run.

As an afterthought, you guys running Vista sp1 which does have this patch included I guess might try running this program because obviously the patch does affect the performance of PII's.

deltatux · 11-22-2009, 10:11 | posts: 7,231 | Location: Toronto, Canada | User is Offline

TLB Disable Patch just gets stuck at Working... for 15 minutes for me.

deltatux

NomadicX · 11-22-2009, 11:05 | posts: 331 | Location: SoCal | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltatux

TLB Disable Patch just gets stuck at Working... for 15 minutes for me.

deltatux

You have to dl the TLB Fix program and another program, the 32 bit version of Crystalcpuid v4.15. Extract TLB into the Crystalcpuid folder and run it from there it relies on some files in the Crystal installation.

deltatux · 11-22-2009, 11:25 | posts: 7,231 | Location: Toronto, Canada | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by NomadicX

You have to dl the TLB Fix program and another program, the 32 bit version of Crystalcpuid v4.15. Extract TLB into the Crystalcpuid folder and run it from there it relies on some files in the Crystal installation.

Does it work w/ x64? That's all I have..

deltatux