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NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision review [ Guru3D.com]
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Default NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision review [ Guru3D.com] - 06-23-2009, 08:00 | posts: 6,462

With this kit finally able in Europe we figured it was time for a review. In this article we will test and review the NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision stereo kit. NVIDIA teamed up with Samsung to optionally...

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Default 06-23-2009, 10:22 | posts: 2,453 | Location: James Cook Hospital, Middlesbrough

I want a pair of these soooo badly (seriously tempted to buy) BUT the price of the monniters puts me off, in time this technology should evolve and the price of the 120HZ monitors should come down making this be adapted in a much wider audience. However I think the stereoscopic glasses are still reasonably priced.

Ps- Hilbert: since you have the sync master 120hz screen , any chance of doing a full review on it?

Last edited by Rifle_Grunt; 06-23-2009 at 14:09.
   
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Hilbert Hagedoorn
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Default 06-23-2009, 11:39 | posts: 20,823 | Location: Guru3D testlab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifle_Grunt View Post
I want a pair of these soooo badly (seriously tempted to buy) BUT the price of the monniters puts me off, in time this technology should evolve and the price of the 120HZ monitors should come down in price making this be adapted in a much wider concept but I think the stereoscopic glasses are still reasonably priced.

Ps- Hilbert: since you have the sync master 120hz screen , any chance of doing a full review on it?
Yeah that's exactly my conclusion isn't it, the prize is really hindering this product.

A review on the monitor - well the kit is to be returned soon. But what do you need to know ? I mean it's a fast TN screen, proper contrast. I feel it lacks connectivity and should have been a 19x12 screen.

But this is your typical run of the mill LCD also in terms of configurability. Samsungs always have been good.


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Default 06-23-2009, 12:50 | posts: 2,520 | Location: Milan, Italy

Thanks Hilbert for that review
Guru3D never fails to surprise me! This technology is looking very damn good, now I was just wondering why you didn't try playing FEAR or FEAR 2
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 13:35 | posts: 446 | Location: Israel

Quote:
Anaglyphic stereoglasses

Anaglyphic glasses are based on the idea of splitting an image into 2 pictures by taking only the red colors of a picture for the left and the green color for the right eye. (It is also common to use other colors, like blue or yellow). Both sub pictures show the scene from different perspectives. This however is not a preferred technology for the PC and especially PC gaming.
NVIDIA implemented that option called 3D-Vision Discover using Anaglyphic stereoglasses, which actually is available completely free of charge and is flicker free. no need for high refresh rate monitor nor an expensive 3DVision kit. all you need is cheap paper/plastic red/blue glasses.

it works wonders with latest 186.18 whql driver, though I haven't got the red/blue glasses yet to properly evaluate the effect.
but hey - it works fine for cinema so it can't be that bad.

(yellow/blue L4D example)


now, you stated that "This is not a preferred technology for the PC and especially PC gaming"
but comparing costless (0-1$) cinema-like 3D against a 475 EUR "pro" kit, the above statement seems somewhat out of proportions.
also note 475eur for a single player/viewer vs ~1$ per player in an offline multiplay environment.
did you actually test games with it ? its a shame you didn't mention anything regarding this kind of experience,
except pointing out this tech is "not preferred for PC".

I'm really looking forward to try the anaglyphic way. its free and works right away. I understand this is some kind of marketing for the "real deal", but nevertheless its more of an interest to me and many people I know. long live the anaglyph

anyway, thanks for the shutter glasses review, even though the internet is pretty much flooded with 3dvision reviews by now .

Last edited by applejack; 06-23-2009 at 15:35.
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 15:58 | posts: 22 | Location: Germany

Nice review! I've been following this product for quite some time now and have pretty much arrived at the same conclusion: Very interesting but just too expensive. Also, the limited choice of compatible displays is a little disappointing, especially since the Viewsonic part isn't even available in Europe, though I've been assured by Viewsonic that the follow-up model, the VX2268WM should be for sale around August.

As for the restriction to WSXGA+ resolution, I think the limitation lies with the connection rather than the displays themselves: DVI and HDMI (at least below version 1.3) just can't handle the bandwidth. DisplayPort or HDMI 1.3 would allow 1920x1080 at 120 Hz, but compatible devices are rare (do current videocards even support HDMI 1.3?).
HDMI 1.4 explicitly includes support for 3D, though the exact method has not been specified. As soon as the technology becomes available for home cinema uses, the prices will hopefully go down fast.

A projector that can handle 1080p at 120 Hz would be a great thing and would only require the addition of HDMI 1.3, since there are several devices that already use 120 Hz technology, if only for motion interpolation.

As for the solution using Anaglyphic glasses, I've tried it myself, and while it is cheap and easy to use, it is far from being a long term solution, since color perception is very poor and extended usage is tiresome.
However, it provides a very good impression of what is possible, and I encourage everyone to try it, since the cost is practically zero, just like applejack said.
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 17:11 | posts: 5,875 | Location: Montreal

No sexy myspace-styled picture of them on hilbert ?
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 17:31 | posts: 4,065 | Location: Earth

I'd sell my soul for one of those^^
They're too cool!
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 19:32 | posts: 189 | Location: Netherlands

Where do you get those red/blue glasses ?
Seen 'My Bloody Valentine 3D' movie with same 3D effects and that was pretty cool.
Want to give this a try, as i'm not going back to 20" from my 30" 2560x1600 LCD

Quote:
Originally Posted by applejack View Post
NVIDIA implemented that option called 3D-Vision Discover using Anaglyphic stereoglasses, which actually is available completely free of charge and is flicker free. no need for high refresh rate monitor nor an expensive 3DVision kit. all you need is cheap paper/plastic red/blue glasses.

it works wonders with latest 186.18 whql driver, though I haven't got the red/blue glasses yet to properly evaluate the effect.
but hey - it works fine for cinema so it can't be that bad.

(yellow/blue L4D example)


now, you stated that "This is not a preferred technology for the PC and especially PC gaming"
but comparing costless (0-1$) cinema-like 3D against a 475 EUR "pro" kit, the above statement seems somewhat out of proportions.
also note 475eur for a single player/viewer vs ~1$ per player in an offline multiplay environment.
did you actually test games with it ? its a shame you didn't mention anything regarding this kind of experience,
except pointing out this tech is "not preferred for PC".

I'm really looking forward to try the anaglyphic way. its free and works right away. I understand this is some kind of marketing for the "real deal", but nevertheless its more of an interest to me and many people I know. long live the anaglyph

anyway, thanks for the shutter glasses review, even though the internet is pretty much flooded with 3dvision reviews by now .
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 19:39 | posts: 3,198 | Location: Central PA

I remember getting my first 3d shutter glasses many many years ago and was blown away by it. The two things that I loved to play were Flight Sim (flying through big cities, amazing) and the game Alice in Wonderland (holy cow was that game great with 3d glasses).

The biggest problem for me was that I like wearing my regular glasses when in front of my computer. Wearing my contacts gives me a headache when working on computers. Trying to wear my regular glasses and the 3d glasses at the same time was just a PITA.
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 19:57 | posts: 446 | Location: Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by justifireb2b View Post
Where do you get those red/blue glasses ?
Seen 'My Bloody Valentine 3D' movie with same 3D effects and that was pretty cool.
Want to give this a try, as i'm not going back to 20" from my 30" 2560x1600 LCD
its not a problem to find one (ebay), but i'm having a difficult time deciding on which kind should I order... I'm now reading a thread at Nvidia's forum regarding this, so Ill quote relevant posts and we can try and figure this out together:

user:
Quote:
There are many types of anaglyph glasses you can get, including clip-on ones that are good you you are using glasses, you can see some here: http://www.3dstereo.com/viewmaster/gla.html

You don't have to wait for the 3D Vision Discover glasses as there are many other types of anaglyph ones that will work just fine with the 3D Vision driver. I got better results using anachrome anaglyph glasses than the normal paper anagyph glasses...
andrewf@nvidia:
Quote:
The 3D Vision Discover glasses are NVIDIA custom designed anaglyph red/blue glasses, with optimized lens filters to maximize the stereoscopic 3D effect. These filters are calibrated to enable stereoscopic 3D on any desktop display while using the GeForce GPU’s programmable shaders for real-time color processing. This solution achieves the high quality anaglyph 3D available by retaining as much color fidelity as possible while eliminating ghosting, completely immersing you in the experience.

We will be adding more info to www.nvidia.com/Discover3D.
user:
Quote:
Andrew, from what I've read on the page you've provided a link to, nVidia's anaglyph glasses should be available only as a bundle with some nVidia-based VGAs starting this summer, but will there be another way to get them? I mean I already have quite a good video card, not to mention a 3D Vision kit (glasses and a Samsung 2233RZ display), but I want to try and compare the anaglyph glasses you are going to provide to some others I already own. So any chance of ghetting the anaglyph glasses without having to buy a new video card?
andrewf@nvidia:
Quote:
great question, sign up for the newsletter and find out how!
-----------------
damn nvidian made me confused now. I've signed to the newsletter but haven't received it by mail yet.

I read stuff about these "Anachrome" 3D Glasses, which sounds pretty good, so I'm guessing this would be the best choice for us ATM, at least until NVIDIA shed some light on why and how should we use their own custom glasses.

Last edited by applejack; 06-23-2009 at 20:01.
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 20:08 | posts: 189 | Location: Netherlands

After some Google i ordered red-blue (wich seem to be wrong) and red-cyaan wich seem to be the right ones from 3DStore.nl (http://www.3dstore.nl/catalog/index.php?cPath=32)
If those work well, i gotta find some better quality glasses instead of those cheap carton ones.
   
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Default 06-23-2009, 22:41 | posts: 6,140 | Location: NSW Australia

Erm. Nvidia, I see one huge flaw in your strategy. Gamers are nerds. Nerds wear glasses. We don't need MORE glasses!
   
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Default 06-24-2009, 02:48 | posts: 241 | Location: Australia

If you're nerd enough, take out the lens of your glasses and stick it in front or behind the 3D lenses. Or you can just get contacts.
   
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Default 06-24-2009, 05:28 | posts: 531

So the fps charts on each of the games are for total fps and not per-eye FPS right?
So for world in conflict, you get only 7.5 fps per eye at 1680x1050.
I wonder how the brain interprets the scene with the slight temporal difference between the images being received by both eyes. Does it interpret the above example as being choppy like a 7.5 fps running game, or does it feel smoother when each eye receives images from temporally distinct frames (somehow blend the time lapse between each eye's new frame to smooth out the overall experience). well i guess you own experience may only be valid for you own brain, but I'm curious anyways.
   
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Default 06-24-2009, 05:41 | posts: 13,832 | Location: Cyberspace

Very nice explanation of the technology behind this idea. Still too expensive imo, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by inklimited View Post
Erm. Nvidia, I see one huge flaw in your strategy. Gamers are nerds. Nerds wear glasses. We don't need MORE glasses!
They thought about that as well, it seems:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru3D News View Post
The small rubber parts to your lower right are in fact nose bridge pieces so you can optimally and comfortably position the glasses on your nose, very handy if you already wear glasses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru3D News View Post
The glasses are comfortable and very important, can be worn over prescription glasses or in combo with contact lenses.
   
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Default 06-24-2009, 09:10 | posts: 12,620 | Location: Southampton, UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamW View Post
So the fps charts on each of the games are for total fps and not per-eye FPS right?
So for world in conflict, you get only 7.5 fps per eye at 1680x1050.
I wonder how the brain interprets the scene with the slight temporal difference between the images being received by both eyes. Does it interpret the above example as being choppy like a 7.5 fps running game, or does it feel smoother when each eye receives images from temporally distinct frames (somehow blend the time lapse between each eye's new frame to smooth out the overall experience). well i guess you own experience may only be valid for you own brain, but I'm curious anyways.
It would be 15fps for each eye; each frame is rendered once for each eye but from different angles, at least that's the way I understand it.


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Default 06-24-2009, 09:23 | posts: 20,823 | Location: Guru3D testlab

You need to double it up ... the framerate as shown in the charts is what your mind will see. You get 15 frames per second fired off at you with a 120hz refreshrate.


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Default 06-24-2009, 09:24 | posts: 7,498 | Location: GTA, Canada

Monitors really shouldn't be less than 1920x1080... I just have a beef with that. Honestly who would want to buy an extremely expensive monitor which only supports 1680x1050?

This is a stupid question but would 2048x1152 require dual-link DVI? That's resolution of my monitor and I didn't pay attention to anything I was just happy to have a new monitor, pulled it out of the box and plugged it in, lol.
   
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Post 06-26-2009, 14:01 | posts: 1

Have you received those? Which one works best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justifireb2b View Post
After some Google i ordered red-blue (wich seem to be wrong) and red-cyaan wich seem to be the right ones from 3DStore.nl (http://www.3dstore.nl/catalog/index.php?cPath=32)
If those work well, i gotta find some better quality glasses instead of those cheap carton ones.
   
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Default 06-26-2009, 19:48 | posts: 189 | Location: Netherlands

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Originally Posted by SchwingSK View Post
Have you received those? Which one works best?
Got them today.
Red-Cyaan works best.
Have tried SFIV demo, man is that cool !!
Nice to play in 3D sometime for only a few euros
Now if i could only get my hands on some nice glasses instead of these carton ones.
   
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Default 06-26-2009, 22:09 | posts: 5,381 | Location: Belgium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Cyrus View Post
Monitors really shouldn't be less than 1920x1080... I just have a beef with that. Honestly who would want to buy an extremely expensive monitor which only supports 1680x1050?
Dude, not everyone has the cash to spare for a rig that runs games in 1920x1080. I've got the 2233RZ and it's awesome if you want the extra edge in online gaming, but I got to give it to you, if you only play SP's or couldn't be bothered about how "good" you play, it's not worth it's price.

It comes pretty close to CRT, without the headaches that is :p

Last edited by Corrupt^; 06-28-2009 at 17:54.
   
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Default 06-26-2009, 22:14 | posts: 2,520 | Location: Milan, Italy

How does 3D run on an 8800GTX ?
   
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Default 06-27-2009, 08:23 | posts: 531

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilbert Hagedoorn View Post
You need to double it up ... the framerate as shown in the charts is what your mind will see. You get 15 frames per second fired off at you with a 120hz refreshrate.
I'm not too familiar with the methods of rendering the scene twice from two slightly different view points, but you are saying is that the frame counter counts a frame as completing the rendering for both eye's view port (and not counting each eye's rendering as independent frames), I guess.
Thank you.

Well then if there aren't any major optimizations for rendering two frames from slightly different viewpoints, then the approximate halving of FPS is quite expected isn't it? (Except in cases where the game is being CPU limited because the rendering of the second view port doesn't need to wait on the cpu). Rendering two times for one frame!

Much more reasonable than my previous assumption. There can't be THAT much overhead for shifting the view port slightly to the left and right constantly. I'm so silly.

That still leaves me one question, I wonder how the Nvidia driver's work. Do they update the frame buffer for each eye's view synchronously or one then the other? I'm guessing doing one then the other (in between rendering the frames for each eye) could cause some weired disconnect between the eyes, so the active frame buffers are probably swapped for each eye at the same time.
   
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Default 06-28-2009, 16:56 | posts: 446 | Location: Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by justifireb2b View Post
Got them today.
Red-Cyaan works best.
Have tried SFIV demo, man is that cool !!
Nice to play in 3D sometime for only a few euros
Now if i could only get my hands on some nice glasses instead of these carton ones.
I still haven't got the glasses but I tried IZ3D driver:
http://www.iz3d.com/t-dcdriver.aspx
(at installation I selected directx anaglyph)

and it actually works, even got better fps in l4d than with nvidia's stereoscopic.
there are some differences, for example with nvidia the whole picture looks a bit more red.
can you please compare the 3d visuals between the two ?

Last edited by applejack; 06-28-2009 at 17:58.
   
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