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Treble557
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Default 06-06-2009, 08:58 | posts: 425

That's a very informative list of comparisons. The 280m in SLI seems like what the main focus of the laptop she gets really needs to be.

I'm still pokin around and not comin up with too much in terms of sli 280m's... I don't quite get why only dell seems to want to SLI them, but then offers inferior processors for obsorbant prices. Makes little to no sense to me.

As for the screen size choice though, just to make sure im clear on why I want this 1440x900 res screen, (or in the 1600 range would be ok too) and not a 1900x1200 res screen, is simply because the GPU's in general aren't "super" powered. When it comes to games like WoW and empire, that refuse to use SLI (she loves wow), it'd slow down the FPS substantially having only one 280m active at 1900x1200 res.

Sure, in games like Dawn of War II, Fear 2, Crysis, etc.. It'd be pretty and functional as hell! However, this laptop has to be made baring in mind that she's primarily an MMO player, and alot of MMO's don't like SLI yet. So yeah... No giant res screen.

The budget btw, is at max 3,200 for now. We really don't wanna have to spend more then that on a laptop. If the decent sli 280m ones wind up being like 4+ grand, then im just gonna talk her into getting a desktop like mine, and build it. Be like half the price. XD
   
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Foes
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Default 06-06-2009, 10:31 | posts: 1,676 | Location: Bahrain

Well, since you want 1440x900 or 1680x1050 res, then you can rule out the Sager NP9280 (Clevo D900F). May I suggest:

Sager 8662 with 260M 15.4" WSXGA+ Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy LCD (1680x1050) https://secure.pctorque.com/system-c...x?SystemsID=44

Sager 5797 with 280M 17" WSXGA+ Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Display (1680 x 1050)
https://secure.pctorque.com/system-c...x?SystemsID=49

Last edited by Foes; 06-06-2009 at 10:34.
   
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  (#28)
Chock
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Default 06-06-2009, 11:03 | posts: 1,516 | Location: Berlin, Germany

get the f*cking sager np9280 with 1x500gb 5400rpm, let them install 2gb of 1333 ddr3 ram

and you go head and buy 1x128gb SSD for your operating system and stuff that needs to load fast, 1x500gb 5400rpm to add for storage and 4gb ddr3 1333

you add those items yourself and you have the most powerfull configuration on the market. 1x9800GTX+ (280m gtx) has enough power to play everything without AA (you dont need any AA on a 17" 1920x1200 display)
   
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  (#29)
Treble557
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Default 06-06-2009, 12:00 | posts: 425

I'm lookin at the sager 9280... and price wise it seems badass for what's in it. I7, 280m, 6 gigs of ram, 500 gig hd, blue ray, 1920x1200 screen... and with 3 year warrentys, it all came to about the same as the alienware.

So, we have the sager with a superior CPU, and the alienware with superior GPU's but inferior cpu's.
Even with pushing the alienware to 4 grand and getting their """""""Intel® Core™2 Extreme Quad QX9300 2.53GHz (12MB Cache, 1066MHz FSB) [Included in Price]The Most Powerful Mobile Processor in the World!"""""""" I still don't know if those video cards would be released to their full potential.

I included the 1920 res screen after a talk with chock on msn. I didn't realize that the lower res one wouldn't beable to do full HD. That was depressing to find out. I wasn't even thinking of it in a movie watching sense at all, just straight gaming.

So, that dell, with the cpu boost, costs... $3,973. I'm thinkin that eventhough I COULD go with the sager and just use the one 280m, that I still would really want that SLI for newer games coming out at that insane res. I just don't know if that CPU, even being that fastest MOBILE cpu in the world (lol) would work for those cards in sli.

If I was willing to go the extra mile, just to attempt and acheive perfection, and help her with that extra 800, would that alienware be worth it and not bottelneck with that cpu in it? or is the alienware a lost cause no matter what, and the sagers the best bet?
Don't just say boo dell either, im speaking purely from a power of hardware standpoint here. I need to know if it's gonna be faster, and how much faster, as long as it's not bottelnecked by that mobile cpu.

*edit*

I'd just like to add that "worth it" to me, means more video gaming power. Not money vs performance. If this thing will out do the sager, then I want it for her.
I want only the best for her! XD

*edit2*
And because you're looking for ultimate control in game, the Intel Core 2 Extreme quad-core mobile processor bus ratio locks (overspeed protection) have been removed, so you can fine tune your notebook experience for maximum gaming performance.°

That was on the dell site about it. Now, I don't know what kinda cooling they plan on having with it.. but if I could get that cpu to 3 or 3.2ghz, wouldn't that be beastly then with the sli???


*edit3*
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=385702

Found this topic on another forum. It would seem that according to these guys, the dell is better atm, until the i7/sli 280's from sager/clevo appear.

Last edited by Treble557; 06-06-2009 at 12:50.
   
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  (#30)
Sneakers
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Default 06-06-2009, 13:13 | posts: 2,652 | Location: Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chock View Post
the 280M GTX is NOT a gt200b chip. its a G92 = 9800GTX+
Ah really? I was under the impression it was the GT200b chip but a choked one, so less shaders = less heat = possible to put in a laptop?

Why even name it 280m if it has nothing to do with it^^?

/edit

I mean think of the 8800M, if that ain't a g80 gpu but choked one how can it do dx10 gaming then? I mean if it was a 7800GTX chip it wouldn't have been able to do dx10. Makes no sense to me, but I cba to research it, but kinda surprising imo!


/edit2

I read Foes link, kinda odd naming scheme ..

The 8800M is also a G92 based chip, as the 280M, but the 280M has more memory and more shaders. Seems both those laptops cards are choked G92s.

Nevertheless the performance is still around 9800gt and 9800gtx. But I see the OPs concern for the higher resolution abit more now..the the 17" will have its pixels smaller then on a typical 24-28" mon so you will never need any AA really wich will help alot.

Hard choice.

/edit2

WoW is a very CPU dependant game no? I mean a 9800 GTX could play that game at 60 fps with a decent cpu, and add an i7 and I mean you got the very best cpu.

If it was me I would go for the sager one I initally pulled out. It has the broadest use, and is generelly the best at everything.

And WoW does use SLI imo? I tested that some year back on a 10 day trial thing I had laying around, but I guess it could have changed. Anyway WoW on 17" 1920x1200 don't need any AA, and if it did 2x would be enough and a single 9800gtx card with an i7 would handle that.

Empire total war is also a cpu dependant game, so again the i7 would be the better choice. GTA4 also cpu dependant game, and would play well on the i7, or atleast better then on a mobile quad.

Ordering a tight setup then adding stuff later on would probably void the warranty from most dealers so wouldn't recommend that (unless checking with them first :x )

/last edit

I think Anandtech is gonna review a 280M based laptop in a few weeks, so might wanna wait for what they have to say if it isn't a rush to buy.

Also the reason to why not many put the 280M in SLI is due to the ammount of heat it produces and you need a quiet large laptop with good cooling to run it. ( read that on the link Foes posted )

Last edited by Sneakers; 06-06-2009 at 13:46.
   
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  (#31)
Foes
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Default 06-06-2009, 14:10 | posts: 1,676 | Location: Bahrain

I say if going with a single GPU setup, then a C2D or C2Q would suffice. If going for SLi, then persue i7. Maybe try contacting xoticpc.com and pctorque.com sales department and ask when will thay have the 9280 with i7 and 280 Sli available.
   
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Treble557
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Default 06-06-2009, 15:25 | posts: 425

I would like to see what the diffrence between that mobile cpu and the I7 would be with the mobile one OC'd to 3ghz, in actual FPS in games at 1920x1200 res.

*edit*

Last I checked, when it came to games, even when comparing the q6600 to the I7 920, the diffrence was maybe 1 fps when it came to these higher res's.
The game can be as cpu dependant as it likes, but in the end, when at that crazy res level, the dual GPU's are what matter.

WoW only uses one GPU, yes, but even with that cpu at 3 ghz and the single GPU, it'll still run just fine.

Last edited by Treble557; 06-06-2009 at 15:33.
   
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Foes
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Default 06-06-2009, 15:49 | posts: 1,676 | Location: Bahrain

The CPU's for the Sager 9280 are not the mobile version, they are the desktop version. If the performance is the same between them in regards to laptop vice desktop, unless running SLi, you will not see a significant fps gain in a i7 vs C2Q in a single GPU config.
   
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Sneakers
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Default 06-06-2009, 16:19 | posts: 2,652 | Location: Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treble557 View Post
I would like to see what the diffrence between that mobile cpu and the I7 would be with the mobile one OC'd to 3ghz, in actual FPS in games at 1920x1200 res.

*edit*

Last I checked, when it came to games, even when comparing the q6600 to the I7 920, the diffrence was maybe 1 fps when it came to these higher res's.
The game can be as cpu dependant as it likes, but in the end, when at that crazy res level, the dual GPU's are what matter.

WoW only uses one GPU, yes, but even with that cpu at 3 ghz and the single GPU, it'll still run just fine.
Well, I guess it comes down to the fact your buying a laptop, where parts will be 3 times the cost as it would on a desctop one. If you wanna blow 2.5 grand on a mediocre system or blow 4 grands on a topnotch system. For me it would be a waste of money to buy something mediocre when you compare it to the regular desctop with a pricetag of 2.5 grands. I rather waste excessive amounts of money on the best then alot of money on the medicore, if you follow my point.

You can buy a quad and run it with a single 280m on a 1400x900 screen np, but it will still cost around 2-2.5 grand and it will be a mediocre experience compared to a desctop for half the price.

Gaming on a 14" 1400x900 resolution laptop, pass...

You said the buyer had the funds to bank this sort of system, and then there is really only one choice. When going for SLI you need a quick cpu to get the fullest out of the system, and cpu + gpus are what will drive the 3d applications the most. Then having a hdd with quick access times and high read times adds to the experience. Also since it is a laptop and it will be a above average size since you wanted SLI 280 ( meaning larger cooling, larger heatsinks, larger everything ) SSD discs are recommended since they are not as heat sensitive, not vibration sensitive at all and they weigh less.

For a gaming laptop with multimedia in mind why not go 1920x1200, makes no sense to me.

2x 9800gtxs in sli on an i7 cpu is fast. Not fast enough to run crysis on highest detail with 8x aa, but fast enough to run it at high settings with 2x aa with 35-50 fps.

Now talking about OCing a 45 nm quad in a sli system with all that highend stuff, could be possible yes, but taking a 2.8 ghz yorkfield to 3.0 will not show alot of improvement. The yorkfield is slower clock by clock compared to an i7, just facts - it sucks but thats how it is.

Now as you say in some applications the c2d will not be surpassed by an i7, one example is Crysis with a single 280 gtx at 3.0 ghz vs an i7 940 at 2.93 ghz, same fps there.

The more gpus the more cpu cyles will be req to propell it, and the more powerful architecture of i7 favors multigpu sytems quite abit.

Now the line goes between 2-3 gpus on desctops - at that point i7 will give you more fps, it will unluck the potential of the gpus, squeeze out that last 20% perfent wich a c2d/q can't.


So with all this in mind you have to consider this.

1) The resolution will determine the gpu needed
2) the cpu will determine if it is worth going sli
3) The budget will determine how many gpus you can afford

If you want 1920x1200 gaming with the newest titles then SLI will be needed, and SLI would be favored by an i7 in alot of applications and modern games ( not WoW but say Age of conan, crysis, farcry2, modern warfare 2 etc.).

If she is gonna play WoW then get her a large size panel laptop, with a 280m and a quadcore cpu, that will be enough.

The only thing except the fps that will add to the overall gaming experience is the size of the mon and the resolution.

Last edited by Sneakers; 06-06-2009 at 16:24.
   
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  (#35)
Chock
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Default 06-06-2009, 21:03 | posts: 1,516 | Location: Berlin, Germany

there is no game a 9800gtx+/250gts aka 280m gtx cant play at 1920x1200 with good fps.

_IMPORTANT_ you DONT need AA on a 17" 1920x1200 display as it will be the most incredible quality you have ever seen on a monitor. and most benchmarks, even the guru3d ones are done using 4xAA. if you disable the AA you get a huge fps boost. so basicly the sager will have the best overall performance and there will be no game that you cant play with full settings.
   
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Foes
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Default 06-06-2009, 22:00 | posts: 1,676 | Location: Bahrain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chock View Post
there is no game a 9800gtx+/250gts aka 280m gtx cant play at 1920x1200 with good fps.

_IMPORTANT_ you DONT need AA on a 17" 1920x1200 display as it will be the most incredible quality you have ever seen on a monitor. and most benchmarks, even the guru3d ones are done using 4xAA. if you disable the AA you get a huge fps boost. so basicly the sager will have the best overall performance and there will be no game that you cant play with full settings.

How are you liking that 1920x1200 on a 17"...best picture you have seen I bet.
   
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Chock
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Default 06-06-2009, 22:26 | posts: 1,516 | Location: Berlin, Germany

well i usualy play 1920x1080 @40" at home

but i own a Clevo D900F which is the same as the sager np9280

and the picture is incredibly sexy.
   
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Treble557
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Default 06-07-2009, 03:26 | posts: 425

Hmm.. I wonder, what gtx card would 2 GTS250's be equal in power to?
   
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Sneakers
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Default 06-07-2009, 19:44 | posts: 2,652 | Location: Sweden

Hows it going treble, you found your boo a laptop yet ?

2x 250GTS abit faster then a single 285 I'd assume, would become closer and closer at high resolutions and at 2500ish I think the 285 would perform alot better simply due to the larger BUS.

Again kinda depends on the CPU but say both are on a 4ghz + c2d desctop then the above would be true. On a slower cpu the 285 would start to surpass already at 1920.

Last edited by Sneakers; 06-07-2009 at 19:47.
   
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