8GB RAM with NO PAGEFILE CLUB or TOPIC (lol) - Page 4

Cybermancer · 04-22-2009, 12:46 | posts: 13,832 | Location: Cyberspace

This thread needs to get back on track, please.

BF2 and RAM prices belong into a PM.

snip3r_3 · 04-22-2009, 13:19 | posts: 2,556 | Location: Taipei - Taiwan

I don't find disabling pagefile any faster than with it on. I don't find 4gb->8gb any faster either =(

When you are in a game, for example, erm Left 4 Dead or Team Fortress 2, and you alt-tab, how long does getting back into the game take for you? I have like a 5~7 second black screen that doesn't get any shorter with more RAM or PF disabled or set to a small amount. haha

VultureX · 04-22-2009, 13:38 | posts: 2,022 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillmonster

Well of course SSD's are faster than HDD's with platters. But they are still nowhere the speed of RAM. If they were, we wouldn't need ram now would we?

Of course you'd still need RAM... You wouldn't be able to play a game and copy files at the same time or other multiple read/write operations... All memory load on 1 disk would cause serious slowdowns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillmonster

That's why you need a decent amount of RAM installed before you can turn off your page file...I think 8Gb is prob enough.

Yes, for that reason it's not practical for most people. There are also other problems. If your PC crashes all the data stored in the pagefile on your RAM would be instantly lost.

Mr.Bigtime · 04-22-2009, 14:22 | posts: 16,702 | Location: Turkey

Anyway people this is not a big deal...iam happy with no page file..and u r happy with page file..any problems ? no in both sides.

Pill Monster · 04-22-2009, 14:43 | posts: 20,464 | Location: NZ

I lubz you all

Quote:

Originally Posted by VultureX

Of course you'd still need RAM... You wouldn't be able to play a game and copy files at the same time or other multiple read/write operations... All memory load on 1 disk would cause serious slowdowns.

Yes, but If you had like 20 HDDS it would be ok....they'd have to be fast though....

Quote:

If your PC crashes all the data stored in the pagefile on your RAM would be instantly lost.

Why would that matter?
With a PF on your hard drive you'd still lose whatever data was stored in ram....it's no different.

Athena79 · 04-22-2009, 17:00 | posts: 83 | Location: The Milky Way

i hate pagefile!!

cant disable mine

Cybermancer · 04-22-2009, 17:02 | posts: 13,832 | Location: Cyberspace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athena79

i hate pagefile!!

cant disable mine

Why not?

Athena79 · 04-22-2009, 17:17 | posts: 83 | Location: The Milky Way

Wont let me...ive tried all the walkthrus just wont work

Cybermancer · 04-22-2009, 17:20 | posts: 13,832 | Location: Cyberspace

You're using Vista x64, right? How much RAM do you have? Your specs don't have that info filled in.

Athena79 · 04-22-2009, 17:38 | posts: 83 | Location: The Milky Way

8gb X64

Cybermancer · 04-22-2009, 17:43 | posts: 13,832 | Location: Cyberspace

Hm. What exactly does happen when you try to disable it? Do you get any error messages?

Pill Monster · 04-22-2009, 17:47 | posts: 20,464 | Location: NZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athena79

Wont let me...ive tried all the walkthrus just wont work

Have you got admin rights?

Athena79 · 04-22-2009, 18:00 | posts: 83 | Location: The Milky Way

Yeah...least i think i do

soldier1st · 04-22-2009, 19:21 | posts: 196 | Location: Enterprise NX01

when i disabled mine vista would act strange so to be safe i let the OS manage it and no problems.

smnoamls · 04-22-2009, 19:35 | posts: 1,427 | Location: israel

Quote:

If your PC crashes all the data stored in the pagefile on your RAM would be instantly lost.

Untrue
The page file can and does hold data that the system can use to "heal" certain sectors which were in mid write.
Despite what many people think, windows does a very adequate job of optimizing memory use. The HD use is for the users protection.

The best option is to set a set sized page file.
Set the upper and lower limit to the same size, such as 4gb ( people with 8gb ram rarely have a hard drive space problem ).
The main "grinding" of the hard drive used in paging operations are the resizing of the page file, not the access.
This will give you the greatest speed benefit, and windows will only access it as needed ABOVE the 8gb ram OR in case it needs to for redundancy reason.

PS: Im a software engineer for IBM storage division

Pill Monster · 04-22-2009, 19:50 | posts: 20,464 | Location: NZ

Just to sidetrack for second, are you saying that if the high/low sizes are the same (which I also agree is the best method btw..) that the PF won't be accessed until that amount of system RAM has been used up?

smnoamls · 04-22-2009, 20:02 | posts: 1,427 | Location: israel

Not exactly (although my post implied just that

)
It will use the HD when the maximum amount of ram the process needs is used.
More often than not the process will not be able to use the whole 8 gb.
This is not only due to 32 vs 64 bit applications, but due to mapping constraints in the software itself.
The program itself might be programmed to use only a certain amount of memory due to its own limitations , whether as designed by the programmer or due to laziness of aforementioned programmer.

VultureX · 04-22-2009, 21:57 | posts: 2,022 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:

Originally Posted by smnoamls

Untrue
The page file can and does hold data that the system can use to "heal" certain sectors which were in mid write.
Despite what many people think, windows does a very adequate job of optimizing memory use. The HD use is for the users protection.

The best option is to set a set sized page file.
Set the upper and lower limit to the same size, such as 4gb ( people with 8gb ram rarely have a hard drive space problem ).
The main "grinding" of the hard drive used in paging operations are the resizing of the page file, not the access.
This will give you the greatest speed benefit, and windows will only access it as needed ABOVE the 8gb ram OR in case it needs to for redundancy reason.

PS: Im a software engineer for IBM storage division

Erm, I'm not sure.. Either you don't understand me or I don't understand you.

If you have disabled your pagefile, all the data is stored in your RAM, right? You sort of have the pagefile you usually have on your harddisk stored in RAM, right? So if your PC crashes all that data is instantly lost, cos the RAM is completely erased after power off or system reboot...

morfeus02 · 04-22-2009, 22:03 | posts: 1,460 | Location: Italy

Quote:

Originally Posted by VultureX

Erm, I'm not sure.. Either you don't understand me or I don't understand you.

If you have disabled your pagefile, all the data is stored in your RAM, right? You sort of have the pagefile you usually have on your harddisk stored in RAM, right? So if your PC crashes all that data is instantly lost, cos the RAM is completely erased after power off or system reboot...

good point

smnoamls · 04-23-2009, 09:13 | posts: 1,427 | Location: israel

Listen, at the time when I finished studying my OS courses in Uni, win2k was the bleeding edge OS, not readily accepted and considered too gaudy by many ( sounds familiar? ).

My suggestion , as a storage so called expert ( which I am not, I just work in the field ):
Dont believe me.
Dont believe self claiming experts or hearsay or even expert forums.
Always go to the horses mouth and read and reread the whitepapers and tech docs and find out for yourself.
a good place to start:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314482
http://search.techrepublic.com.com/s...nd+paging.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/889654
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windo...ing-file-size/

Specifically make sure you use microsofts database. Even though they are an evil empire, they did write the OS. They usually know best

WhiteLightning · 04-23-2009, 09:24 | posts: 20,445 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:

Originally Posted by smnoamls

Even though they are an evil empire, they did write the OS. They usually know best

i seriously doubt that. why are there so many hacks/ways/applications out there to make the os running way better then you could with "standard" windows ?

smnoamls · 04-23-2009, 09:27 | posts: 1,427 | Location: israel

I did not mean to go by their suggestions.
I meant read the way the system works.
And construct your own methods.
But the constant risk of any hacker or developer for that matter is assumptions.
We assume so many things and base out actions on them we sometimes do more harm then good.
the reading material I sent was meant to give more info as to how to better optimize performance, not to give you someone elses opinion of what is right.
This is a gurus forum, you are supposed to figure out the best way to overcharge your OS and hardware.
Just do it based on real information.

Mr.Bigtime · *Last edited by Mr.Bigtime; 04-23-2009 at 09:49.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by VultureX

Erm, I'm not sure.. Either you don't understand me or I don't understand you.

If you have disabled your pagefile, all the data is stored in your RAM, right? You sort of have the pagefile you usually have on your harddisk stored in RAM, right? So if your PC crashes all that data is instantly lost, cos the RAM is completely erased after power off or system reboot...

Is there a way to restore data from ur PAGEFILE?

and i never had a problem about LOST DATA...theories theories theories. i myself dont know how THINGS work in Vista 64 OLS. i mean game fişles loads to RAm and u play. then ur pc shutdown..what u expect? restore game files?

U work on a word file..u were writing on it then pc shutdown....what u expect? word default setup takes backup file and its mostly in , where u created ur file..not RAM..or not PF...PF is same as RAM but on HDD...and if ur WORD file desnt have a backup file(if u disable from options in word) there is no way to take it back after a shutdown. even if u have 1TB pagefile, u r not going to able to restore so MY opinion is: the thing u r talking about is nonsense. pls do not take offense...just my opinion which cant reflect reality.

WhiteLightning · 04-23-2009, 09:46 | posts: 20,445 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:

Originally Posted by smnoamls

This is a gurus forum, you are supposed to figure out the best way to overcharge your OS and hardware.
Just do it based on real information.

Yeah your right about that, there are lots of people here with the right knowledge and experience which saves all the reading up. thank god for that!

smnoamls · 04-23-2009, 10:06 | posts: 1,427 | Location: israel

Quote:

even if u have 1TB pagefile, u r not going to able to restore so MY opinion is: the thing u r talking about is nonsense. pls do not take offense...just my opinion which cant reflect reality.

You are right. It doesnt reflect reality

Vista has a new thing called self healing ntfs.
Basically, NTFS, as compared to other file systems, has a very good chance to restore data in case of power loss. As opposed to ram.
That is why most programs choose to write much of their data on the hard drive ( see posts further up ).
So, when you lose power, yes many game files and data can be saved. It is done automatically by the system often, but more often than not by chkdsk.

Self healing ntfs does it in the background on vista and server 2008 , and without even unmounting the volume ( a wonder of technology really IMO ).
Read more about it :
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc771388.aspx

and the basics of NTFS ( which is why xp -> vista use ntfs and not fat32 which is marginally faster ) :
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/ntfs/over.htm