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Videocards vs General Purpose - NVIDIA Ageia PhysX, GPGPU etc. In this section you can discuss general purpose application that run over your GPU, like transcoding, Physics simulation etc.


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Radeon VGA + Geforce Physx works on XP and Win7 but not on Vista
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janos666
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Default Radeon VGA + Geforce Physx works on XP and Win7 but not on Vista - 08-15-2008, 22:57 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

I found a little workaround to enable hardware accelerated Geforce-Physx on a secundary card next to a primary Radeon VGA. It works on XP. But I can not do anything with Vista (and Vista is my primary OS). But there should be a way...

Screenshots and results: (Yes, I know that 8500GT is a slow **** but I did not want to buy a cheaper test VGA until I find the way to use it on Vista. So results are low but it works, better then simple CPU mode)












But there is a little problem with Vista. It does not enable to work two cards at the same time (with different drivers).




Is there any idea? (Because this hybrid system can work physically in crossfire or SLI motherboards. There is no any software or hardware limitation in XP.)



Here is the workaround:
Remove any VGA drivers. Put your secund card to your motherboard and connect your monitor to both cards. (DVI for Radeon and D-SUB for geforce)
Install both VGA drivers with device manager and install Physx software.
Reboot.
Set your Geforce card (I mean "assigned display" but it is a shorter definition) as primary display (use your monitor's OSD to navigate between Windows desktops). (Reboot -not necessary but may be needed...)
Open Physx properties and select geforce physx, hit apply. - DO NOT CLOSE.
Select your Radeon as primary display adapter. - Do NOT reboot or close any panel.
Select No acceleration - DO NOT APPLY -, select Geforce acceleration again and hit apply now.
You can close every control panel... Geforce physx now works and radeon card is your primary renderer device. Do some benchmark!

For display selection: Hit right mouse buttom on desktom and choose the last menu. Select the last tab. Here you are. Use the drop down menu.

UPDATE 2009/06/10: You can find some useful info about new drivers and applications at the foot of the page2. (Mirror's Edge, Cryostasis, Win7 RC1, ect... -> All of the works!)

Last edited by janos666; 06-13-2009 at 10:29.
   
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thales100
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Default 08-15-2008, 23:11 | posts: 745 | Location: Brazil

Cool , hope its possible to have this hybrid system in Vista too.
   
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thales100
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Default 08-15-2008, 23:19 | posts: 745 | Location: Brazil

sry stupid post

Last edited by thales100; 08-15-2008 at 23:25.
   
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Mannerheim
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Default 08-16-2008, 05:40 | posts: 4,571 | Location: Finland / Helsinki

Voodoo2 cards go into sound xxxxxxxxxxxx in Device manager.
Maybe if it woud be possible to put physX in there ?

Just longshot quess =)


   
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Luka_Aveiro
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Default 08-16-2008, 11:54 | posts: 32 | Location: Portugal

Vista requires the exact same driver to manage all graphics devices, in order to guarantee the closest fail-safe experience to users.

No way you are going to install 2 different drivers to manage 2 different graphics devices on the same Vista system.

The OS just doesn't allow you to do it.
   
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Black_ice_Spain
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Default 08-16-2008, 14:27 | posts: 4,361 | Location: Spain

aka try to disable that protection =)!
   
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janos666
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Default 08-16-2008, 14:59 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_ice_Spain View Post
aka try to disable that protection =)!
That is the trick that I search.

Any idea? I did not get good results with custom forceware drivers. (I tryed to change the device class ID to soundcard or Ageia Physx card but Vista is not stupid. I will try a Tesla ID or something.)
   
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janos666
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Default 08-16-2008, 22:24 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

Ok. I rode some WDDM documentation and I wrote an E-mail to microsoft.
Any idea how I can disable this WDDM limitation and run two different VGA drivers at the same time?
Microsoft said it should works if I force to install XP drivers. (endless number of different XPDM drivers work, but two WDDMs or WDDM+XPDM is blocked) Ok, I tryed. 8500GT work with XP-x64 drivers (not fine but works), but 4870 can not start with Catalyst-XP-x64. I thought but I tryed, it is not a possible way. (And we need WDDM for DX 10 so...)

Last edited by janos666; 08-16-2008 at 22:33.
   
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janos666
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Default 08-17-2008, 22:21 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

I ran out of ideas.
What is the situation with Windows 7 milestone/pre-alpha builds? Do they allow different WDDMs?
And I forgot about Severs 2008. It uses the same kernel and driver modell but it may have less restrictions...
If someone know windows 7.0 or server2008 well then tell me what the situation is with them...

EDIT:

OK. I learned that Server 2008 has the same restrictions. But Windows 7.0 will allow different VGA drivers again. Cool. I only need a leaked x64 version (I found only x86).

Last edited by janos666; 08-17-2008 at 23:27.
   
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chispy
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Default 08-18-2008, 06:06 | posts: 6,599 | Location: Puerto Rico

That is awsome dude , i will try to run my 8800Ultra as a ppu and my 4870x2 as primary card when fedex deliver my new 4870x2 next week.
   
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janos666
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Default 08-19-2008, 23:33 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

Ok. Here is my new screenshots. I said I will prove that we can run two different WDDM drivers at the same time if we really want it.


These are not fakes. But there is a relatively big problem with them. No, not photoshop, these are real, untached screenshots (captured with printscreen and saved with paint). Benchmark ran with hardware accelerated Physx and different WDDM drivers. I let you tip about the problem.







Last edited by janos666; 08-19-2008 at 23:38.
   
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chispy
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Default 08-20-2008, 00:16 | posts: 6,599 | Location: Puerto Rico

Can you run 3DMark Vantage ?and tell whats the problem is?, tx a lot for sharing.

chispy.
   
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janos666
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Default 08-20-2008, 12:55 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

Quote:
Originally Posted by chispy View Post
Can you run 3DMark Vantage ?and tell whats the problem is?, tx a lot for sharing.

chispy.
As you wish:


I should overclock this 8500GT somehow.

Your secund question will be answered by this screenshot (check out the watermark on the right-down corner).
   
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scratch42069
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Default 08-20-2008, 13:23 | posts: 165 | Location: Canada

Having the ability to run multiple WDDM drivers is going to be real handy in Windows 7.
   
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mehdi
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Default 08-20-2008, 14:43 | posts: 1,250

Very nice janos666 so you have to install nvidia drivers and physx drivers to get gforce physx working it wont work with just physx drivers?And how did you get this working on vista?
   
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janos666
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Default 08-20-2008, 14:52 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

Quote:
Originally Posted by mehdi View Post
Very nice janos666 so you have to install nvidia drivers and physx drivers to get gforce physx working it wont work with just physx drivers?And how did you get this working on vista?
Read the topic more heartily. It works on Windows 5 (XP) and Windows 7 (Vienna?) but it does not work on Windows 6 (Vista). And you need the WDDM device drivers (both forceware and catalyst - this causes the problem with Vista).
   
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c[00]LsPoT!
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Default 08-22-2008, 02:23 | posts: 3 | Location: Germany

@ janos666

Thank you for trying this whole thing.
I' ve bought a 8500GT for PhysX yesterday. :-D
But I forgot this crappy WDDM-XPDM-WTF-THING. :-)
I got Vista x64.

PS: What do you think of a modified VGA Bios?
Could a modified bios run the 8500GT as a Physx-card or soundcard?

greetings (I'm sorry for my english! :-)

c[00]LsPoT!

Last edited by c[00]LsPoT!; 08-22-2008 at 12:13.
   
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c[00]LsPoT!
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Default 08-22-2008, 11:21 | posts: 3 | Location: Germany

Ok. Ithink a modified vga-bios wouldn't work.
I hope, that Microsoft will fix this WDDM thing someday. :-(

greetings

c[00]LsPoT!
   
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janos666
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Default 08-23-2008, 21:20 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

I tryed a lot of thing to use it under Vista x64.
- Modded forceware (forced detection as a soundcard, ripped display specific entries/files - it has to work as a video adapter, you have to extend your windows desktop to it's monitor!!! - but it can not even start that way).
- I replaced Vista's PlugAndPlay Device Enumerator files with .dll and .sys files from Windows 7.
- Lot of various attemps (soft and hard).
Nothing worked.

I sold my 8500GT. I will buy a 8600GTS when there are a new Windows 7 leak with 64-bits or an interesting new game with Physx.

*** Yes. After some tests I changed my recommendation from 8500GT to 8600GT (with overclocking too).

Warmonger runs smooth with 8500GT but there is some FPS drop (min FPS is about 45). But Unreal Tournament 3 can not run smoot with an overclocked 8500GT (min FPS is about 33 which is noticable in this fast FPS game).

An overclocked 8500GT is a little faster then an Ageia Card (as I thought when I bought it) but this is not enought for games if you have a fast primary VGA card.
   
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ohnoes
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Wes Barfog
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Default ohnoes - 08-24-2008, 18:33 | posts: 11 | Location: Belgium

Janos, i tried your walktrought ( on xp ) but it's not working ...
When i'm using my 8800 GTS as primary renderer, geforce physx enabled, i got a score of more than 3300 o3mark

When I activate the HD 4850 as primary display, geforce physx enabled, fluid marks runs in software physx , and i get only 1200 o3 mark

Here's a sshot :


Any idea how to solve this issue ?
   
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Wes Barfog
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Default 08-24-2008, 20:05 | posts: 11 | Location: Belgium

I found the answer :

Monitor 2, on 8800 Gts need to be activated ... Dual screen must be activated
More than 4200 o3mark, that's fun
   
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Robschina
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Default 08-25-2008, 20:59 | posts: 19

This might sound absolutely insane but would it be possible to run a 4870x2 as the main graffics card and a gtx280 as the physics card? I ask this because I just switched to the 4870x2 and still have the gtx280 that I am planning on selling...I am running the 4870x2 on my 780i motherboard so crossfire is not an option. So what do you guys think? And which pci-e slot should I put the gtx280 card in...the one furthest away from the first card or the slot right below the first card? Thanks
   
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c[00]LsPoT!
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Default 08-26-2008, 00:33 | posts: 3 | Location: Germany

@ Robschina

This should be working. But it only works on Windows XP! NOT ON VISTA!!!
I think you have to put the 4870 X2 in the primary PCIE-slot and the 280 in the second or third slot...

c[00]LsPoT!

Last edited by c[00]LsPoT!; 08-26-2008 at 00:36.
   
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king-dubs
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Default 08-27-2008, 13:08 | posts: 2,371 | Location: 127.0.0.1

That sounds awesome
I might grab a cheap 9600 GSO or something to run as a PhysX card.

I'm still running XP... I probably will NOT downgrade to Vista in the future. I'm running XP x64 SP2 for my 4 GB RAM
   
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janos666
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Default 08-28-2008, 13:10 | posts: 323 | Location: Hungary

Quote:
Originally Posted by king-dubs View Post
That sounds awesome
I might grab a cheap 9600 GSO or something to run as a PhysX card.

I'm still running XP... I probably will NOT downgrade to Vista in the future. I'm running XP x64 SP2 for my 4 GB RAM
I won't go back to XP x64. I have some bad memories from the time of first x86_64 CPUs. And I could buy a GTX-260 if I would not have any DX 10.1 so I am waiting for a new x64 build of Windows 7 and I will buy the best short VGA. (I would keep with my old chassis and keep my HDDs in their place so I need a VGA which is shorter then 18.5cm, like a 8600GTS, maybe a custom 8800/9600 with shorter PCB...)
   
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