Crysis A.I. vs. Wolfenstein3D A.I.

[Funkmaster_A]

discuss...

[Dojomann]

Crysis AI is a lot better.

End.

And stop with the sillyness.

[Dieheart]

I think Stalker has the best AI in any game atm. But I need to play the final version of Crysis with Max difficulty before I can officialy say.

[Funkmaster_A]

Well, I'll see if I can post a video to youtube. I grap one dude, throw him in the middle of a group of two dude, and then they run towards me, and then they run right past me, and look around (that's one example). I've repeated this like half a dozen times, so it's not just a one-time thing.

[Devolution]

...this topic wins the worst topic of the day award. Congrats. You've just made the internet a much worse place to be.

[UnclePappi]

[anticitizen013]

You know if you think about it, its really not that bad of a thread.

I dont know how flexible the level editor is with Crysis, but what if you were to recreate a section of a level from Wolfenstein (Im actually thinking of RTCW, because you cant really compare 3D with Crysis because... well you just cant) in Crysis. Same enemy locations and as close to the same weapons as possible (again I dont know how flexible the level editor is in Crysis). What would each enemy in each game do? Would they do the same thing? Would their tactics be different?

Kinda makes you think if they are the same, how far has game AI truely gone and what one considers 'good AI'.

[UnclePappi]

Idk, the AI doesn't seem too bad to me. What exactly are they supposed to do to be considered "next-gen AI"? They run, hide, and shoot. If they hear a noise they come looking, and if they find nothing they stay alert. I haven't played enough to see if they deploy any kind of teamwork/tactics(other than shooting a flare) but so far they haven't seemed "dumb".

[anticitizen013]

Well lets just put it this way... I still have yet to see (in ANY game) the enemy throw a grenade and then assault the second it detonates. Ive yet to see enemies properly clear rooms and initiate effective flanking tactics. Maybe its just me...

Now dont get me wrong, I know thats very difficult to code and I couldnt do any better by far (trust me, if I coded AI, they would either shoot each other if I even got that far, or just stand there looking at something shiny), but itd be pretty awesome to have some AI that actually worked as a team.

But yeah, I dont think that current AI is DUMB per se, they just arent programmed to do certain things. Which is another point altogether... even if they are programmed to do these things, what happens when you as the player prevent or modify certain variables rendering that tactic ineffective? Ahhh such is the pain of AI. Glad I dont do it

[Funkmaster_A]

Bah, my video upload didn't work, here's essentially what I'm talking about though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_MHh0Zu2AA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNRvYqTKqFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOeL_cOWHa0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vre1ABXbMoM

My point is that the programmers overextended themselves. For instance, they programmed the AI to be in a "non-alert" mode, but they didn't do a good job of letting them get out of that and into alert mode. They programmed them the bad guys to run and then look around, but they didn't allow the bad guys to be able to spot you while they are running.

At least the AI in Wolf3D actually notices you and fires...

[Lycronis]

For Crysis, not the worst AI but certainly not the best. As for some of the best enemy AI, my vote would go to FEAR, STALKER, the Halo series and on some occasions, the enemy bots in ET:Qauke Wars.

[UnclePappi]

None of that stuff in the vids has happened while I've been playing. Something seems fishy. I'm going to try to recreate those situations.

[Jeremy]

Jeremy's AI Awards 2007...

Crysis 6.5/10
Stalker 8/10
Call of Duty 4: 8/10 (simply stunning game)
ETQW: 7/10

[Xendance]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Jeremy's AI Awards 2007...

Crysis 6.5/10
Stalker 8/10
Call of Duty 4: 8/10 (simply stunning game)
ETQW: 7/10

I hope you're joking when you say that CoD 4 has AI. It's all scripted ****.

[NowhereMan]

This thread is more idiotic than any AI that I have seen...

[Chouji]

My 2 billion cents on the whole AI issue.

Real AI ingames should have npc's acting how a real person would act in the same situation, regardless of what the sitation is.

It should have less scripting and more natural interactions.
The crysis demo, right when you get to the gps jammer. If you go in cloaked, you may see some people walking around or talking, but only because they were scripted to.
Thats what they were told to do from the second they spawned. They didnt decide they want to have a conversation.

A real AI will show them all sitting around, since they wouldn't exactly expect an attack.
Or at least leaning against a wall. I would lean against a wall in that sitation, i would assume no one would attack me from behind, THROUGH the wall. That way i can keep an eye of everything infront of me.

AI has NOT come that far in the last few years. sure everything is a bit more responcive, but the AI does not make its own desicions based off real life sitations.

Team mates will follow you, and only take new locations based of scripts, they wont put their hand back and go infront of you to look around the corner, they will wait for you to do that. They know whats around the corner, it's how they were programed, 1 npc cant surprise attack another unless the victem was scripted not to notice.


Last note, some of you may not agree with me on the whole desicions thing, so look at it this way.
When you play through the same level of a game twice, the exact same way, will the npc's be doing the same thing the second time as they did the first?
In crysis, somewhere along the beach, you see 2 guys standing and talking, and 1 guy sitting against a rock with a bottle. I've played the demo level about 20 times now "i like the scenary", they do the exact same thing every time.

Never does one of the standing men decide to join the other guy against the rock. and the guy thats sitting never once decides to get up and wander around a bit.
AI?, thats not ai, thats all scripting.

PS we are a very long way from a real AI, but i know how we can do it, someone should design a virtual friend with few growth limits, that everyone can chat with, and as it grows it learns. That would then create a true AI, and it will probably kill us all ^_^

[UnclePappi]

Oblivion was supposed to have some advanced AI but they cut it back for some reason? You can see that very little is scripted with the characters. I think that game was headed in the right direction but the animation was lousy. The animation by itself made the characters look retarded.

[vbetts]

I will say this about Crysis.

I don't like Crysis much, but the AI, the environment of Crysis is AMAZING.

[Dustpuppy]

I haven't played crysis yet, but I can tell you having beaten all 9 or so episodes of wolfenstein 3d that the AI in farcry was far and away better than wolf 3d's AI.

Remember wolfenstein 3d was NOT 3d, it was 2d drawn to look 3d. This was the case for awhile in first person shooters. (with the possible exception of Descent if you consider that a fps )

/ps where is my descent IV *sheds a tear for interplay*

[Palerider]

It aint the two you mentioned, but the AI in MOH Airborne was really good.Just started the Crysis demo, and have to say the enemy seems dumb as hell.They had me trapped in a garage, and kept running past me looking for me.

[cerebus23]

one very puzzling thing about the ai in crysis, and i hope its fixed in retail, is cause a vehicle to burn so its going to explode the ai runs from it, shoot an explosive barrel cause it to burn the ai runs toward it. bit of a hole in the AI.

hard to tell from the demo tho i mean the test and how smart an AI is is how it navigates indoor environments, does it flank like a human would, one thing fear did well was flanking AI and how they navigated indoors.

Since the crysis demo is outdoors in trees etc, yea they investigate, alert, search, take cover but hard to tell how good it is lest from the demo.

[Funkmaster_A]

Oblivion was supposed to have some advanced AI but they cut it back for some reason? You can see that very little is scripted with the characters. I think that game was headed in the right direction but the animation was lousy. The animation by itself made the characters look retarded.

Oblivion has AMAZING "big picture" AI. Each seperate person has his own individual schedule, and sometimes steal food, get caught by guards (they're always killed though, kind of annoying), and whatever.

Oblivion's problem is "small picture" AI. I'm talking about bandits saying "hey, the guy I was just talking to just died because he got shot in the head with an arrow. Heh, interesting," and then the bandit just walks away.

[Lycronis]

Yeah, Oblivion has some interesting AI. It seems like I had read somewhere that Bethesda did in fact scale back the AI because it was consuming too many cpu cycles. Hmm, I'll have to see if I can find the article.

[Denial]

This thread brings up a good point though. Games like Half Life 2 that touted advanced AI were a joke. The scripted marine events in Half Life 1 were more difficult. Currently the AI in all games that have been released have been a huge let down.

[scm2ejm]

the AI in ep2 was pretty sweet too, noticably better than previous half lifes.