X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone - Page 3

Liberalism · 10-05-2007, 21:12 | posts: 90 | Location: Redmond, WA

Wow you're right... I can't really tell the difference between my speakers and my headphones with this on.

PixelPerfect · 10-05-2007, 23:53 | posts: 101 | Location: Sweden

Its totaly awsome.before my X-fi I used a crappy Zalman 5.1 but as soon I bought this great soundcard and tested CMSS3D it went the garbage can straight away and I dont use my Logi 5450 annymore

I wonder what the X-fi 2 could do, if its possible to improve it even more!

BTW I bought this Creative HS-900 Headset the other day and have to say im very impressed with it, great clarity and good bas and cheap to

GenClaymore · 10-06-2007, 00:10 | posts: 5,077 | Location: Michigan,usa

Perfect you could had sold it on ebay and some of your money back.

UnclePappi · 10-06-2007, 02:30 | posts: 5,075 | Location: Toledo, Oh

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCthug

Explain????

Oh nothing just had my tinfoil hat on the other day. /joke it just seems there's always new accounts made when these threads pop up.

Osuperman · 10-06-2007, 09:02 | posts: 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnclePappi

Oh nothing just had my tinfoil hat on the other day. /joke it just seems there's always new accounts made when these threads pop up.

Hey it shows that these forums have a larger audeince than just those participating, which is great

I myself didn't want to join until I had something of worth to put to a discussion and this thread really hit a nerve with me, as I too have never truly felt my X-fi was worth the money I paid for it. Now I'm sold though.

I was wondering though, I was playing Half-Life 2 Episode One and didn't really feel a true immersion I was expecting, is it compatible with OpenAL? (I don't have ALchemy installed). In fact, does anyone know if the Orange Box will be compatile with OpenAL or will I need Creatives ALchemy? As I've never used multichannel features on a soundcard before I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to surround sound gaming.

UnclePappi · 10-06-2007, 09:40 | posts: 5,075 | Location: Toledo, Oh

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think Source uses software sound? It does all the processing on the CPU I believe. So I guess it doesn't matter what sound card you have.

PixelPerfect · 10-06-2007, 12:06 | posts: 101 | Location: Sweden

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenClaymore

Perfect you could had sold it on ebay and some of your money back.

You can have it for free if you will as I dont see annywon will bye that crap

If you want surround headphones I heard that Medusa 5.1 is the very best!

Ultraq · 10-06-2007, 22:02 | posts: 848 | Location: New Zealand

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnclePappi

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think Source uses software sound? It does all the processing on the CPU I believe. So I guess it doesn't matter what sound card you have.

I read somewhere that Source has it's own audio routines. Maybe based off DirectSound, but it definitely doesn't use OpenAL.

king-dubs · 10-08-2007, 17:31 | posts: 2,350 | Location: 127.0.0.1

*bump* for the sake of goodness!

king-dubs · 10-13-2007, 20:19 | posts: 2,350 | Location: 127.0.0.1

*bump again for more people

Pill Monster · 10-13-2007, 21:18 | posts: 20,435 | Location: NZ

I also have to agree with the others, set speaker settings to Headphones. It says in the console that it - and I quote "provides several different modes for 3D enhanced playback of stereo audio over headphones or multi channel speakers." So when you're wearing headphones set speaker settings to headphones and when you're listening to 5.1 set speaker settings to 5.1

Pill Monster · 10-13-2007, 21:30 | posts: 20,435 | Location: NZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by PixelPerfect

Thats right and I have tested every settings and even read on Creatives forum that that is the correct way to set it up!

The soundcard must get 5.1/7.1 so it can then send it out the correct way to the virtual speakers to get surround sound

So it works just as you set it up for a real surround system ..if you set the control panel to headphones/stereo then the soundcard only get stereo source and that you obviously dont want to have!

PS! Of course set hedphones mode in creatice CP with CMSS3D enabled!

Here are the instructions.

CMSS 3D settings

You can configure Creative Multi Speaker Surround (CMSS) to create a surround effect for headphones or multi-channel surround sound speaker systems.
On the CMSS 3D tab, you can:

enable or disable CMSS 3D Surround.
select CMSS for an enhanced soundfield for playback of stereo or multi-channel audio content. You can enjoy rich 3D virtual surround sound with headphones or 2-speaker systems, and expanded multi-channel sound with 4/4.1, 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 speaker systems.
select CMSS 2 for added ambient effects. CMSS 2 is ideal when watching DVD movies with Dolby Digital soundtracks.
select Stereo Surround to duplicate the front channel audio to all surround speakers.
position sound to the front or rear of your speaker system by dragging the Stereo Focus slider.
enhance your music listening experience by widening the stereo sound field and adding depth by dragging the Stereo Widening slider. Your speakers will sound as if they are placed further apart than they really are.

Notes

Some CMSS 3D Surround options are available only with selected audio devices.
For 4.1 speaker systems, audio from the subwoofer or Low Frequency Effects channel speaker is derived solely from your speaker system, if available.

PixelPerfect · 10-14-2007, 17:46 | posts: 101 | Location: Sweden

Eh I dont get it so you mean that I set it up wrong ?

I allways use Headphones mode in Creative CP. that goes without saying you should do that to get the virtual speaker setup in stereo headphones!

And in Games/Windows setup you should chose 5.1!
Simple as that as that IMO is the correct way to get CMSS3D to work as its best.

The soundcard must get all the channels from the game or windows CP aka 5.1/7.1 and then it samples it to its fantasticaly virtual mode

ROBSCIX · 10-14-2007, 18:57 | posts: 16,071 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

Yes, that is the consensus around here.

king-dubs · 10-17-2007, 20:49 | posts: 2,350 | Location: 127.0.0.1

I think this thread deserves to be stickied at least until Creative posts some official and explicit instructions for this.

PixelPerfect · 10-19-2007, 23:07 | posts: 101 | Location: Sweden

Quote:

Originally Posted by king-dubs

I think this thread deserves to be stickied at least until Creative posts some official and explicit instructions for this.

Well put and I second that so sticky please ?

BTW HL2 Ep2 if it is setup as I said sounds totaly awsome, the positioning is out of this world and I say Surround speakers bye bye my Logitech 5450 it blows them away totaly.really its insane

king-dubs · 10-21-2007, 04:34 | posts: 2,350 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Maybe I gotta PM a staff to do it

Gumby · 10-21-2007, 15:52 | posts: 38 | Location: USA

Is this just for xp because my creative audio console don't look like that nor do I have the option for synchronization?

Everything else looks similar.

I'm running windows Vista Ultimate 32 Drivers and software are the newest available.

king-dubs · 10-21-2007, 18:52 | posts: 2,350 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

Is this just for xp because my creative audio console don't look like that nor do I have the option for synchronization?

Everything else looks similar.

I'm running windows Vista Ultimate 32 Drivers and software are the newest available.

Have not tested anything on Vista. This has only been confirmed for XP.

Gumby · 10-21-2007, 22:20 | posts: 38 | Location: USA

ok cool, NP I was just hoping I could also get some amazing sound.

Thanks for your help

Vandrende Pind · 10-23-2007, 16:54 | posts: 1,178 | Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Thank you all very much for pointing out how to properly setup CMSS-3D headphones. The improvement is vast! My little X-fi has has awaken...

Do you think it is better to set Windows to 7.1 or 5.1 when using CMSS-3D headphones?

ROBSCIX · 10-24-2007, 20:41 | posts: 16,071 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

Yeah, I think we should sticky this. May help.

king-dubs · 10-26-2007, 03:59 | posts: 2,350 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandrende Pind

Thank you all very much for pointing out how to properly setup CMSS-3D headphones. The improvement is vast! My little X-fi has has awaken...

Do you think it is better to set Windows to 7.1 or 5.1 when using CMSS-3D headphones?

I use 5.1 since it's more convenient, because I have 5.1 speakers too. I'm too lazy to go back and change the windows speakers setting back and forth from 7.1 and 5.1.

So I just use 5.1 for both my headphones (with CMSS-3D Headphone of course), and my 5.1 speakers.

But it's really up to you which one you prefer.

Off-topic: Much thanks to the staff here that stickied this thread.

ROBSCIX · 10-26-2007, 14:11 | posts: 16,071 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab

No problem. I figured it needed to be stickied.

Rogacz · 10-26-2007, 23:22 | posts: 78 | Location: Poland

Dolby HPH and CMSS 3D HPH work as follows:

Application produces multichannel sound (5.1 or 7.1) and D-HPH or CMSS-HPH mixes all those sounds with psychoacoustic reverbs and HRTF applied into two channel sound so you can actually hear that something is behind you or even above you.

It's relatively easy to understand it.
You can't create precise sound of something being behind you if you have only stereo source coming from game or other application. You need to have as many channels as possible (more channels --> more precise virtualization).

The problem is that Creative doesn't care about it's customers, and I haven't found a single piece of paper describing on how to use CMSS 3D HPH. Just by my deduction, logical thinking and testing I came to conclusion that you simply need multichannel signal to work on.

And it's not about placebo effect. Set your speakers on headphones and run multichannel capable game on headphones with CMSS HPH enabled and then do the same thing but with enabling 7.1 sound in windows sound panel and inside game setup, but with setting only Creative console on headphones (with CMSS HPH enabled) and then hear the difference.

There are some sound virtualization algorithms that take 2 channel sound and upmix it to 6 or even 8 channels but it can't be precise because it lacks too much data. It's easier to create real sounding binaural sound from 7.1 channels sound instead of making 7.1 sound from stereo recording.

If you still don't believe, try it on yourself. Try Dolby Pro Logic and Dolby HPH with stereo sound (it will do nothing really) and then with multichannel sound.

Shortly, to achieve best results with CMSS 3D HPH you need to do what follows:

---------------
1. Untick "Synchronize with control panel in Creative drivers"
2. Switch windows speaker settings to 7.1
3. Reboot
4. Switch Game Mode into headphone mode (without sync with control panel)
5. Turn Macro FX and Elevation filter to ON
6. In desired app set sound on 7.1 or 5.1

Then try some gameplay and listen, especially to sounds that should come from behind. Try tossing some grenades behind you or play large scale battle game (Operation Flashpoint, Red Orchestra, Battlefield etc.)

---------------

By letting Game Mode set speaker speakers into HPH together with windows control panel you'll end up with CMSS 3D HPH trying to make binaural sound from stereo sound. It will only flatten the sound and at least make it only less tiring.

If someone still argues that there is no difference between "2.0 --> binaural" and "5.1 (7.1) --> binaural" (or changes are pure placebo) then such person must be deaf.

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Sorry for grammar mistakes, it's late here...