X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone

king-dubs · *Last edited by king-dubs; 07-21-2009 at 20:34.*

Old post for Windows XP 32-bit and 64-bit:
I have a 5.1 surround setup (speakers), and I also have stereo headphones. This is the first time I'm going to try the CMSS-3D Headphone feature on the X-Fi.

So, I plug in my headphones, and set the "Speaker" in the Creative Audio Console to "Headphones" and unchecked Synchronize with Windows Control Panel, and CMSS-3D tab, turn it on, with Elevation and Macro to Auto.

I kept the speakers in Windows' sound settings as "5.1 surround speakers", and fire up a game like CS:S. I make sure speakers in CS:S under "Audio" is set to 5.1, and join a server.

Am I using CMSS-3D Headphone correctly?
-------------------------------------------------
#EDIT:
For Vista and 7 32-bit and 64-bit:
I made a tutorial with colorful pictures so you guys can easily follow it

Then, you SHOULD reboot your system. You don't have to, but if it ends up not working in games, you will need to reboot once.

I tested this, works perfectly on Battlefield 2 with Creative X-Fi, Ultra High... very very accurate positioning. Also tested on CS:S, set sound to 5.1, and that's it, could hear exactly where enemy was coming from. Also tested in Call of Duty 4, set sound to "Windows Default", and I was getting full positioning as expected.

Again, enjoy!

king-dubs · 09-30-2007, 15:22 | posts: 1,928 | Location: 127.0.0.1 | User is Offline

bump?

ROBSCIX · 09-30-2007, 15:26 | posts: 11,680 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab | User is Offline

Yes sounds about right.

Sobek · 09-30-2007, 15:29 | posts: 437 | Location: Australia | User is Offline

I always thought you just had to set everything to headphones and enable it, and it automagically simulated surround sound...or something. Might explain why it sounds so **** though if that's how you're actually supposed to do it.

I've enabled CMSS in the past and couldn't possibly understand what kind of person would ever use it... It sounded muffled and 'airy' or 'spacy'...not sure how else to put that. Basically CMSS makes it sound like you've got giant tin cans over your ears.

So i'll bump this one too, are you supposed to use 5.1 with CMSS headphones?

king-dubs · *Last edited by king-dubs; 09-30-2007 at 16:24.*

I think this is right, because before I did not uncheck "synchronize with Windows Control Panel", and it set it to "Headphones", and did not set game or windows to anything other than what's automatically set ("headphones").

As you described, it sounded weird, muffled, and dull, and did not have surround.

However, today I decided to uncheck synchronize with windows control panel, and set the "Speakers" to Headphones in Creative Audio Console, and kept the Windows one set to 5.1 speakers.

Then, I fired up CS:S and it indeed sounded like a multi-channel headphone.

Since I did not find any "formal" instruction on setting up CMSS-3D Headphone, I'm asking you Gurus what's the "correct" way to set it up.

The way I have it seems to work, but is it the right way?

#EDIT:
Also, I think you can use 7.1 instead of 5.1 too since Creative advertised that games and music will sound "just as good if not better than a 7.1 surround speaker set". - Source here

Satan · 09-30-2007, 17:38 | posts: 6,649 | Location: Towson, MD, USA | User is Offline

Yeah, that sounds fine

king-dubs · 09-30-2007, 17:53 | posts: 1,928 | Location: 127.0.0.1 | User is Offline

I'd still like to see some formal (official) instructions for using CMSS-3D Headphone though

Funkmaster_A · 09-30-2007, 18:27 | posts: 1,133 | Location: VA | User is Offline

That's right. You're basically supposed to trick windows into sending a 5.1 signal to the sound card, and then the sound card converts that into stereo headphone sound.

king-dubs · 09-30-2007, 19:07 | posts: 1,928 | Location: 127.0.0.1 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkmaster_A

That's right. You're basically supposed to trick windows into sending a 5.1 signal to the sound card, and then the sound card converts that into stereo headphone sound.

And how do you know this for sure if you don't even own an X-Fi?

-Ruin- · 09-30-2007, 19:44 | posts: 1,028 | Location: St. Louis MO | User is Offline

In CS, use headphone mode.

Do NOT use 5.1 with headphones. And ignore the windows control part, the creative software overrides it anyway.

In the the creative control simply turn on Headphone mode wih cmss3d on, and NO macro or elevation filters, those kill the sound and do not work.

In Counter Strike just enable Headphone and your all set.

PCthug · 10-01-2007, 01:07 | posts: 1,516 | Location: Durham, UK. | User is Online

I use it with Call of Duty 2, and have set it up the same as you. Make sure it IS set to eax in game though, and not to headphone or 2.1 speakers.

PixelPerfect · *Last edited by PixelPerfect; 10-01-2007 at 04:02.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkmaster_A

That's right. You're basically supposed to trick windows into sending a 5.1 signal to the sound card, and then the sound card converts that into stereo headphone sound.

Thats right and I have tested every settings and even read on Creatives forum that that is the correct way to set it up!

The soundcard must get 5.1/7.1 so it can then send it out the correct way to the virtual speakers to get surround sound

So it works just as you set it up for a real surround system ..if you set the control panel to headphones/stereo then the soundcard only get stereo source and that you obviously dont want to have!

PS! Of course set hedphones mode in creatice CP with CMSS3D enabled!

Grahf · *Last edited by Grahf; 10-01-2007 at 09:03.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by king-dubs

I have a 5.1 surround setup (speakers), and I also have stereo headphones. This is the first time I'm going to try the CMSS-3D Headphone feature on the X-Fi.

So, I plug in my headphones, and set the "Speaker" in the Creative Audio Console to "Headphones" and unchecked Synchronize with Windows Control Panel, and CMSS-3D tab, turn it on, with Elevation and Macro to Auto.

I kept the speakers in Windows' sound settings as "5.1 surround speakers", and fire up a game like CS:S. I make sure speakers in CS:S under "Audio" is set to 5.1, and join a server.

Am I using CMSS-3D Headphone correctly?

No, you're not.

If your speakers are set to 5.1, then you're not using CMSS3D Headphone, period.

When you're using headphones, your game/windows should be set to HEADPHONES.

The CMSS3D Headphone feature alters a STEREO (headphone) signal, thus you should have everything set to headphones when you're using headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PixelPerfect

Thats right and I have tested every settings and even read on Creatives forum that that is the correct way to set it up!

The soundcard must get 5.1/7.1 so it can then send it out the correct way to the virtual speakers to get surround sound

So it works just as you set it up for a real surround system ..if you set the control panel to headphones/stereo then the soundcard only get stereo source and that you obviously dont want to have!

PS! Of course set hedphones mode in creatice CP with CMSS3D enabled!

WRONG.

CMSS3D does NOT EQUAL "Virtual 5.1 or 7.1 for headphones".

CMSS3D Headphone alters a stereo signal to give the impression of multi-directional sound; ideally, you'll be able to differentiate between sounds that are behind you, in front of you, etc.

IT IS *NOT* the same thing as "Virtual 5.1". There is no virtual subwoofer, NO virtual speakers; STEREO sound is altered to give the impression of multi-directional sound. Pretty simple to understand.

----

I don't care where you read what you read but I am 100% positive that when using X-Fi CMSS3D Headphone, ALL of your speaker options should be set to HEADPHONE, *NOT* 5.1 or 7.1

-Ruin- · 10-01-2007, 09:03 | posts: 1,028 | Location: St. Louis MO | User is Offline

^ Exactly, you do NOT want 5.1 if you are using headphones.

*hi-fives* Grahf for being the only other one who knows how to use it correctly!

BOYDIE-NI · 10-01-2007, 10:30 | posts: 180 | Location: Fife, Scotland | User is Offline

Yup agree 100% also, set cmss-3d to Headphone,speakers to headphone and game/source to headphone.How can cmss -3d headphone work if you arn't using headphones settings in game.Cmss-3d alters the 2 channel signal.

king-dubs · *Last edited by king-dubs; 10-01-2007 at 10:54.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOYDIE-NI

Yup agree 100% also, set cmss-3d to Headphone,speakers to headphone and game/source to headphone.How can cmss -3d headphone work if you arn't using headphones settings in game.Cmss-3d alters the 2 channel signal.

Well that's what unchecking "Synchronize with Windows Control Panel" is for. It's to make windows and the apps that run on it send 5.1/7.1 signals to the card (the CMSS-3D Headphone feature will interpret those signals and essentially create 8 or 6 virtual speakers in your stereo headset).

Maybe you guys aren't reading what I'm writing, or I'm not writing what I did.

I'll now do a visual demo of what I did:

Settings that are done in Creative Audio Console and Windows' own sound thing

In-game settings for Counter-strike: Source

Note: If I do NOT follow this procedure and just set it to "Headphones" in Creative Audio Console and not uncheck synchronize with windows, it will set EVERYTHING to headphones. And CS:S sounds like absolute sh*t. Could not tell what's behind, above, or below me. However, If I do this procedure I found on my own, it sounded like my 5.1 speakers (similarly). I took off my headsets while playing, and could not hear sound (confirming that they were coming from headset).

-Ruin- · 10-01-2007, 11:08 | posts: 1,028 | Location: St. Louis MO | User is Offline

Then your giving yourself a placebo effect if you think that THAT is working correctly. CMSS3d uses a STEREO/HEADPOHNE signal and mixes it to a "surround" effect.

Anything 5.1 or 7.1 is NOT needed.

king-dubs · 10-01-2007, 11:13 | posts: 1,928 | Location: 127.0.0.1 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Ruin-

Then your giving yourself a placebo effect if you think that THAT is working correctly. CMSS3d uses a STEREO/HEADPOHNE signal and mixes it to a "surround" effect.

Anything 5.1 or 7.1 is NOT needed.

Actually, I did hear a difference. Using "Headphone" in CS:S and Windows made it sound dull, and not very surround at all.

PHJF · 10-01-2007, 11:30 | posts: 1,141 | Location: NC | User is Offline

You'd think it would need a surround-sound signal to process into a "3D" stereo signal, wouldn't you?

How does CMSS-3D know if a sound is supposed to be in front of you or behind you if all it's getting is a standard stereo signal?

king-dubs · 10-01-2007, 11:41 | posts: 1,928 | Location: 127.0.0.1 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHJF

You'd think it would need a surround-sound signal to process into a "3D" stereo signal, wouldn't you?

How does CMSS-3D know if a sound is supposed to be in front of you or behind you if all it's getting is a standard stereo signal?

Qft. I knew it was actually working, because CS:S sounds like sh*t without it set to 5.1. The game would only be sending out stereo sounds.

And it really is that good. In CoD2 just now, I nailed a couple of guys in the head that were BEHIND me, and I could hear them. I also thought again it was my speakers, but then I took off my headphones, and no sound

BOYDIE-NI · 10-01-2007, 13:36 | posts: 180 | Location: Fife, Scotland | User is Offline

Cmss-3d is an up mix of a 2 channel signal.It wont work on 4.1 or 5.1 settings.Check this out for setup guide.

http://www.soundblaster.com/Applicat...&categoryID=13

king-dubs · 10-01-2007, 14:07 | posts: 1,928 | Location: 127.0.0.1 | User is Offline

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOYDIE-NI

Cmss-3d is an up mix of a 2 channel signal.It wont work on 4.1 or 5.1 settings.

Nothing on the site stated that. And I did indeed hear full surround sound in both CS:S and CoD2.

ROBSCIX · 10-01-2007, 14:51 | posts: 11,680 | Location: Guru3D Audio Lab | User is Offline

There is CMSS3D and CMSS for Headphones.

CMSS3D take a 2 channel signal and upmixes it. Good for MP3 etc, seen on Audigy series cards.

CMSS for headphones is a surround modeling algorithm to model surround info on headphones. Seen on X-fi cards and the Prelude.

Ultraq · 10-01-2007, 15:04 | posts: 848 | Location: New Zealand | User is Offline

When I first got my X-Fi I asked myself the exact same questions: what's the 'correct' way to get CMSS for headphones to work?

I've found that the way that king-dubs has it (Windows: 5.1, Audio Console: Headphones + CMSS), in addition to fooling games into thinking I have a 5.1 or any surround setup, is what works for me.

When the sound source is only stereo (that is, Windows: headphones, Audio Console: Headphones + CMSS, games/apps: headphones) then CMSS doesn't really do much but give the feeling that I'm in a larger, more echo-filled, room.

Osuperman · *Last edited by Osuperman; 10-02-2007 at 01:05.*

I've been reading the Guru3D boards for a while now, but finally plucked up the courage to join as I thought this thread was really interesting! I too have felt the CMSS3D function of my X-fi card sounded really pretty terrible... When I read the above posts I felt so hopeful that all along I had been doing it wrong, but alas, it seems Grahf is correct: I found this description from Vista...

It looks like CMSS3D is supposed to sound like that

which to my ears is too echoed and rather unpleasant... When using headphones I now play all my games in basic stereo but select 2.1 Speakers from the X-fi control panel, not as engaging as 5.1 (or 7.1) as I personally prefer it to even the headphone mode, which seems overly quiet and not very exciting...

However, I shall try the method outlined by king-dubs, see if it improved the cmss3d sound and report back.

Thanks guys!