Do we know what the capabilities are of the Hollywood GPU yet? - Page 2

darknight909 · 06-20-2007, 17:16 | posts: 4,845 | Location: San Diego, CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElementalDragon

Halo 2's graphics kinda suck. I'm not the only one that says that too. Most people say the only thing that made Halo and Halo 2 so popular was the gameplay.

I think even the gameplay sucks

roguesn1per · 06-20-2007, 17:51 | posts: 9,514 | Location: Aussie Perth WA

Back when Halo 2 Came out, the graphics were awsome..remember its been a long time since the release of halo 2..Its a Fun game online, with friends...If you have no friends then its not fun...simple as that.

double_cut · 06-20-2007, 18:11 | posts: 2,150

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElementalDragon

Double_cut: have you looked at some of the games coming out for Wii so far? Yes.... getting to the level of 360 and PS3's graphics may be damn near impossible, especially this early in the game..... but saying that you doubt we'll see many games that look better than Halo 2 is kind of absurd. Halo 2's graphics kinda suck. I'm not the only one that says that too. Most people say the only thing that made Halo and Halo 2 so popular was the gameplay.

Take the one game that i'm looking forward to for instance.... The Bigs. Doesn't really look different between the three versions... PS3, 360, and Wii.

Whether or not you think Halo 2's graphics suck or not (it is subjective after all) is not the point, technically (which is what I said) for the hardware it is on the graphics are nothing short of superb. Even playing it again now on my 360 it looks awesome with a splash of antialiasing, certainly better then anything I have seen on the Wii or anything I have seen coming on the Wii. Again it is subjective as are most image quality comparisons, but the Wii is simply not capable of some of the things even the original Xbox could do, certainly with regard to shaders and the like. As for "most" people, "most" people I know and speak to say Halo had some of the greatest graphics at the time in both the original and the sequel. Ofc much like your comment I can't quantify that in anyway whatsoever, this is the internet after all.

Also did you just try and compare a cross format game between systems? Guess what, that is not a true display of what the hardware is capable of because at some point they had to cater to the lowest common denominator, in this case the Wii so a cross format game developed by the same studio will almost certainly never take full advantage of the more powerful machine. Look at the Xbox and the GameCube in the last generation with 90% of the cross format games (Resi 4 was an obvious exception) being designed for and around the PS2. Do you really think a cross format game, while knowing yourself deep down how powerful the 360 and PS3 are graphically compared to the Wii, will really push all 3 systems to the limit? I don't.

There is obviously an amount of visual quality that comes from the artwork and design of a game and that will be where the Wii could potentially shine as far as graphics are concerned (certainly with Nintendo at the helm), but let me make it very clear, all things equal the Wii will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be able to compete on the same graphical level as the 360 or PS3. In fact I would go as far to say as it will never be anywhere near the 360 or the PS3 graphically from a technical standpoint. It doesn't matter how "early in the game" it is, all 3 consoles will evolve over time and the Wii will always be left in a distant 3rd place as far as its graphics capabilities are concerned.

However I will say again that it doesn't matter ultimately because GRAPHICS DON'T MAKE THE GAME.

I will be getting my second Wii next week and I have a PS3 and 360 atm, I love the Wii for what it is but I also appreciate what it is not and it is not a graphics powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination. I would also suggest you go back and look at Halo 2 again with an open mind, ignore whether you personally like the graphics or not and look closely at the effects being used and then remember its basically a GeForce 3 on steroids and a Celeron running the show and claim that it is not impressive.

Turned into a bit of a rant, but when something like this is a clear cut as it is (and to anyone that actually has read up on the matter it is crystal f*cking clear) it just shows how many people are blinded by "brand loyalty". Nintendo, just like Sony and Microsoft want one thing and one thing only from you: money. Bear it in mind.

scatman839 · 06-20-2007, 18:22 | posts: 8,751 | Location: Dundee, Scotland

Your getting a second Wii?

May I inquire as to why?

double_cut · 06-20-2007, 18:38 | posts: 2,150

Quote:

Originally Posted by scatman839

Your getting a second Wii?

May I inquire as to why?

Probably should have been more clear. I bought my original Wii way back when (RRP £180) and then sold it on after a month or so for a nice profit (sold for £250 when they were still pretty rare)after I'd had my fill of Wii Sports. This will be my second Wii. This is also my second 360 since I sold the first one at the first sign of DVD drive issues and put the cash towards a PS3 (I cannot justify handing over £500 cash on a games console which was how much the PS3 package I got cost). I got an exceptional deal on my second 360 which I could just not say no to (and I'd played Motorstorm to death by then

).

I always like to have all options available to me in these situations and I would rather have all 3 consoles with say the best 4 or 5 games on each, then one console with 20 games, 15 of which are mediocre at best.

ElementalDragon · *Last edited by ElementalDragon; 06-20-2007 at 19:09.*

well.... the Wii is still pretty damn rare. haven't seen a single one in stores near me yet.... and they sell on eBay for a small profit over retail price.

And you keep saying that it'll never reach the visual quality of 360 and PS3. Yes... 360 and PS3 have HD capabilities higher than that of Wii. Yes... as time goes on, games evolve on every system and start looking better. No... it doesn't have to look as good as the games that are out at the time to technically look as good as PS3's games. If a game comes out on Wii a year from now that looks as good as games on 360 or PS3 today.... i'd call that a win, wouldn't you? It's a known fact that the capabilities of the Gamecube weren't even stressed that much (as you said... Resi 4 being probably one of the highest), and the Wii is more powerful than the Gamecube.

and about the whole cross platform games looking the same crap.... they could just as easily have created the game for the 360 or PS3, with graphics in mind, and toned it down for Wii (which is what quite a few of the games that made it to all 3 systems seem to have done). case and point.... Call of Duty 3.

So honestly, no, we haven't got a clue as to exactly what the Wii as a whole is capable of. only time will tell.

scatman839 · 06-20-2007, 19:09 | posts: 8,751 | Location: Dundee, Scotland

I believe Twilight Princess was a bit closer to what the full power of the gamecube could do, in a few areas it slowed down for me.

I also found out yesterday, the GC only had 18-bit colour, I wondered why black always looked noticible.

ElementalDragon · 06-20-2007, 19:30 | posts: 8,250 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Something else i also forgot to mention that should also be taken into consideration...... all the stuff they had on Gamecube, including RE4 and Twilight Princess..... was done on mini-DVD's. now they've basically got what.... 4x the space to work with?

double_cut · 06-20-2007, 20:54 | posts: 2,150

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElementalDragon

And you keep saying that it'll never reach the visual quality of 360 and PS3. Yes... 360 and PS3 have HD capabilities higher than that of Wii. Yes... as time goes on, games evolve on every system and start looking better. No... it doesn't have to look as good as the games that are out at the time to technically look as good as PS3's games. If a game comes out on Wii a year from now that looks as good as games on 360 or PS3 today.... i'd call that a win, wouldn't you?

No, pick say Motorstorm as a launch PS3 game and say PGR3 as a launch 360 game. The Wii will never have a game look as good as either of those, ever. Ever. I don't think you understand the yawning chasm that is the difference between Wii level graphics power to the PS3, and then another small step up again to the 360. The hardware is not, and likely never will be, capable of what the 360 and PS3 are doing right now. We do not know exactly what the Wii is capable of, as you say, but what we can see from the details that have been released that it was never intended to be in the same class as either of its rivals.

Quote:

Something else i also forgot to mention that should also be taken into consideration...... all the stuff they had on Gamecube, including RE4 and Twilight Princess..... was done on mini-DVD's. now they've basically got what.... 4x the space to work with?

Disc size shouldn't be a determining factor in the quality of a game to a point. However even if that was the case, by that logic BluRay > all as far as the consoles are concerned.

Just accept the fact, as I have, that the Wii will never "Wow!" you visually in the same way the 360 or PS3 are capable of doing. Wiimote > spangly graphics and Nintendo (and lets be honest Microsoft and Sony as well by now) know this.

FuLLBLeeD · 06-20-2007, 21:07 | posts: 180

I think Metroid Prime 3 is visually better than Halo 2, but that just may be me. You can't say it doesn't look nice though, regardless of the hardware its running on.

I'm not sure Zelda used 100 % of the GCN. If it was designed on the Wii hardware, it would of probably looked alot sharper with better textures.

ElementalDragon · 06-20-2007, 23:58 | posts: 8,250 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

yes, double_cut, by that logic PS3 with it's BluRay WOULD be tops. but look at it this way. Nintendo started out on cartridges.... and has been on cartridges up until Gamecube (and they're still on cart's in the Handheld market). They had a lot of experience cramming a lot of data into smaller places, hence why when they made the Gamecube, they went with a small form factor design, using mini-DVD's... because they could very easily fit a large game onto a small space.

double_cut · 06-21-2007, 07:19 | posts: 2,150

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElementalDragon

yes, double_cut, by that logic PS3 with it's BluRay WOULD be tops. but look at it this way. Nintendo started out on cartridges.... and has been on cartridges up until Gamecube (and they're still on cart's in the Handheld market). They had a lot of experience cramming a lot of data into smaller places, hence why when they made the Gamecube, they went with a small form factor design, using mini-DVD's... because they could very easily fit a large game onto a small space.

I hope you realise this has next to nothing to do with the quality or the visual quality of the games these days. It is not like back when the N64 was out where it probably was a mistake to not jump to disk at that point. Space is no longer at a premium and there will always be diminishing returns on what improvement can be made simply by adding more space. Nintendo have been forced to use compression because of their own choices and they tailor the games to the size they have available, what it really showed in the past is how much space is actually wasted on most game DVD's and before that CD's. I'm not saying they can't cram a lot onto a disk, but Sony and MS will have access to the same compression methods (which obviously on BluRay won't be needed), Nintendo's experience in the past with cartridges offers little to no benefits in the current environment. Nintendo have never really relied on fancy visuals or uber textures to create a good game so while it might save them a few headaches by having more room to breathe, I doubt very much you will see a huge return in terms of visuals (Nintendo from my experience would rather add new gameplay elements then fancy high res textures that the Wii would struggle to manipulate in real time anyway).

It is not a criticism of the Wii in any way beyond a purely technical standpoint, but Nintendo have always made games first and foremost and not just graphical showpieces. That immediately shifts the focus away from creating a gorgeous looking game to creating a game that plays amazingly well instead.

In an ideal world we would have the CPU power of the PS3's Cell and its XDR memory system, the Xenos graphics subsystem from the 360, a BluRay drive and then the Wiimote and nunchuck from the Wii with Nintendo, MS and Sony developing first party games for it. That system could start and stop wars.

ElementalDragon · 06-21-2007, 15:28 | posts: 8,250 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

have to admit.... it would be pretty freakin sweet to see this whole Big 3 crap kinda fall to pieces, and just have all three collaborate on one good system. But you'd have to have Nintendo making first party games too. Pretty damn hard to find a Nintendo game that you don't enjoy playing at least a LITTLE bit. even the most simplistic games are fun as hell.... such as Smash Bros. How much more simplistic can you get than a game that has, at most, two button attacks? Simple, yet constantly playable. Maybe not by yourself, but with friends it's a blast. And with SSB: Brawl supposedly being multiplayer...... you'll never run outta people to trash. lol.

The whole thing i was getting at with the storage space was that Nintendo created some of the greatest games, and still relatively good looking/highly regarded games on the N64.... namely The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (and Majora's Mask..... others may not have liked it so much, but i loved it). one huge, and at the time very pretty game, crammed onto a cart. Now they had Twilight Princess as the last big kick for Gamecube. again, very pretty game, relatively nice visuals, pretty long gameplay too, crammed onto a mini-DVD. Sony and MS have access to the same types of compression that Nintendo use.... but i think Nintendo knows how to compress their games a little better, and still get the visuals that they want, and that they feel the public wants.

Darkest · 06-21-2007, 18:14 | posts: 5,249

I wouldn't go as far to say that Nintendo knows how to compress games better than other Dev's out there. Rather, they've been forced to heavily compress due to the format choices they've made over the years - as I believe someone stated earlier. Also, the 'size of data' a disk can hold can graphicaly benefit a game when you start looking at the texture streaming techniques coming into play.

That said, fitting Resident Evil 2 onto an N64 cart' was astounding. That game took up two CD's for the Playstation 1.

ElementalDragon · *Last edited by ElementalDragon; 06-27-2007 at 05:03.*

Hmm..... apparently there's been some new details released about Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. The article was in Play magazine... and according to the WiiCast, the people making the game said that the large outdoor levels have a level of detail that wasn't possible on the Gamecube. Tryin to find the pics..... but dunno if they're out there. either way, that's somethin to look forward too.

Here's a link to the article on GoNintendo.com *Warning - Spoilers for the first two levels.... although very few spoilers, still spoilers*

http://gonintendo.com/?p=20137

Found the scan. can even read the article. seems very promising a game.....

http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_m...can.jpg?575117

scatman839 · 06-27-2007, 13:13 | posts: 8,751 | Location: Dundee, Scotland

The article calls the beam and visor switching from the previous games tedious, i'm sorry, but that's one of the parts that made it good.

ElementalDragon · 06-27-2007, 15:19 | posts: 8,250 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

i believe they said this due to the fact that one was controlled by pressing a direction on the D-pad (completely eliminating movement for a second), and the other with the C-stick (not being able to shoot for a second). Wish Nintendo had demo's.... or i wish they'd release the Demo channel that's rumored sometime soon.

jiu-jitsuGOD · 06-28-2007, 01:08 | posts: 1,556 | Location: Was NY now SA TX

i wish i could read the article but the scan is to small even when i enlarge it

ElementalDragon · 06-28-2007, 01:55 | posts: 8,250 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

well.... you could download it, and zoom in on it further......

Copey · 06-28-2007, 14:39 | posts: 10,646 | Location: U.K

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuLLBLeeD

I think Metroid Prime 3 is visually better than Halo 2, but that just may be me. You can't say it doesn't look nice though, regardless of the hardware its running on.

I'm not sure Zelda used 100 % of the GCN. If it was designed on the Wii hardware, it would of probably looked alot sharper with better textures.

lol , if metriod 3 dont look better than halo 2 then ninty have dropped a bollock , trying to out-do a 3 year old game shouldnt be hard

the wii isnt about graphics anyway , its wasnt designed to has nice graphics and i havent seen any wii game that i thought 'look at the graphics on that'

double_cut · 06-28-2007, 14:47 | posts: 2,150

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copey

lol , if metriod 3 dont look better than halo 2 then ninty have dropped a bollock , trying to out-do a 3 year old game shouldnt be hard

the wii isnt about graphics anyway , its wasnt designed to has nice graphics and i havent seen any wii game that i thought 'look at the graphics on that'

Call me a child but...dropped a bollock? LOL!

Just picked up Resident Evil 4 Wii today so will be investing a few hours in that tonight, never properly played the other versions I am expecting the second coming gameplay wise tbh.

Copey · 06-28-2007, 14:48 | posts: 10,646 | Location: U.K

Quote:

Originally Posted by double_cut

Call me a child but...dropped a bollock? LOL!

Just picked up Resident Evil 4 Wii today so will be investing a few hours in that tonight, never properly played the other versions I am expecting the second coming gameplay wise tbh.

lol , i bet it will play well, resident evil 4 was great gameplay wise on any console so should be great on wii

scatman839 · 06-28-2007, 15:12 | posts: 8,751 | Location: Dundee, Scotland

Oh, about Twilight Princess using 100% of the GC, I think it was rather near it anyway.

I'm playing through it again now, and i've noticed a few slowdowns in certain areas, the worst being in the desert, during the day fighting those portal shadow monsters, it was like 10fps.

FuLLBLeeD · 06-30-2007, 05:53 | posts: 180

Metroid Prime 3 will easily beat Halo 2. EGM even said it look better than Halo 2 BEFORE they polished up the graphics and started using the Wii's hardware. That says something. This game looks good. Metroid Prime visual style has always looked great.

And about the comment about Call of Duty 3..we all know the Wii can do much better visuals than that crap. I've seen Call of Duty 2 with details on high run on systems you'd think it would choke on..so getting that level of detail on Wii wouldn't be that troublesome at all. Don't get me wrong, Call of Duty 2 is a great looking game, but the most advanced effects were probably the smoke effects. As far as COD3 for Wii, all they did was ported the PS2 version and slapped on Wii controls. GAH! I hate developer laziness! We all know the Wii is certainly capable of alot of stuff we've been seeing on the platform, can we all agree there?

Edit: Scatman, is that the GCN or Wii version? And you sure? I noticed slight frame drops but I honestly think the bland desert environment and the stretch of it all makes it seem alot slower than it actually is.

ElementalDragon · 06-30-2007, 07:19 | posts: 8,250 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

i just can't wait to see if they do eventually make a game that uses the full range motion detection to the max. would be nice for a game like Soul Calibur or somethin. not like fighting games we've seen up to now.... swing this way to do this attack... swing that way to do that one.... press and hold this button while swinging to perform a powerful attack. I mean one where however hard YOU swing, and whatever direction you swing, is what direction and power is behind your player's hit.

again.... probably won't see anything near that until developers get off their lazy a**es.