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Need help with picking new mobo
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ToBbErT
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Default Need help with picking new mobo - 02-10-2013, 09:06 | posts: 148

Hello

Im planning to upgrade to a 3570k so im looking for a new Z77 motherboard. The board needs to have crossfire couse i will add a 7870 later. Are there any affordable 3.0 PCIe 2x x16 boards? I cannot seem to find a site that have a proper search function. And everytime i think i found a board its 1x16+1x4. I never build a cf or sli system so its a bit confusing for me. And with all the misleading specifications it doesnt make things easier.

And also would it be ok to use my old 1333mhz memory on the new system? Ive read that the difference between 1333 and 1600 is very small.

Thanks in advance

Oh yea forgot the mention my budget. Im thinking about spending 100-120 euro/110-130 dollar for the board.

Last edited by ToBbErT; 02-10-2013 at 09:10.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 02-10-2013, 09:18 | posts: 24,245 | Location: NZ

ASUS P8Z77-V $134

What ram do you have? If it's decent you should have no trouble overclocking from 1333mhz to 1600 which will improve things.

It's after 1600mhz that performance gains start to diminish.
   
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ToBbErT
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Default 02-10-2013, 09:29 | posts: 148

That board is little bit expensive 157 euro's (netherlands). I could stretch my budget but only when its really necessary. The ram is very cheap no brand but it has serving me well so far. Maybe i can try and overclock it?

I just came across this board Z77 Extreme4 http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme4/ What do you think about ASrock and this board? And whats the differnce between this and the asus?

Last edited by ToBbErT; 02-10-2013 at 09:36.
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 02-10-2013, 09:57 | posts: 24,245 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBbErT View Post
That board is little bit expensive 157 euro's (netherlands). I could stretch my budget but only when its really necessary. The ram is very cheap no brand but it has serving me well so far. Maybe i can try and overclock it?

I just came across this board Z77 Extreme4 http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme4/ What do you think about ASrock and this board? And whats the differnce between this and the asus?
The Extreme4 is an OK board afaik.

With ASUS I know I won't have any compatibility issues and their higher end boards are rock solid when overclocking, plus my board comes with a 5yr warranty.

But the Asrock should do fine.
   
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ToBbErT
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Default 02-10-2013, 10:17 | posts: 148

I will buy the ASrock board at a local store so i can always replace it fast when i get compatibility issues. I remember when i build my first pc in the early 90's when ASrock was a new brand so i kinda ignored the brand since but im willing to give it a go now. Reviews seems pretty good. Thanks for your advice!
   
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Pill Monster
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Default 02-10-2013, 10:39 | posts: 24,245 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBbErT View Post
I will buy the ASrock board at a local store so i can always replace it fast when i get compatibility issues. I remember when i build my first pc in the early 90's when ASrock was a new brand so i kinda ignored the brand since but im willing to give it a go now. Reviews seems pretty good. Thanks for your advice!
Yeah Asrock used to be cheap and low quality, but seems they've lifted their game in the last few years..
   
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damnboy
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Thumbs up 02-11-2013, 11:59 | posts: 46 | Location: Lithuania

Own AsRock Extreme4, no problems so far. As far as i know, best price/value z77 board. Well, i like ASUS software little more, but that is not the case.
   
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Default 02-11-2013, 17:23 | posts: 16,600 | Location: US East Coast

ASRock, as a company, hasn't existed since the early 90's. ASRock didn't exist until 2002 when it was spunoff from Asus. ASRock is owned by Pegatron Corporation, formerly the OEM leg of Asus.

Saying that ASRock boards used to be "cheap and low quality"....is saying the same about Asus, since Pegatron has produced boards for both....and still does. Pegatron produces roughly 30% of the motherboards in Asus' product line.


   
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thatguy91
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Default 02-11-2013, 19:14 | posts: 4,037 | Location: Australia

Asrock boards are now very good, especially the boards like the Extrem4. I have an Extreme6 myself, which is very similar to the Extreme4. In terms of memory, 1333 RAM will of course work, but 1600 RAM would be better. The 'sweet' spot for RAM speed with Ivy Bridge and z77 is 2133Mhz RAM, above that speed the performance really diminishes off to very little.

There are several comparisons between RAM speeds. I did a very quick look at came across this one:
http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/ar...#axzz2KcR7BBLP
which does represent the same information as the other comparisons.

The important tests are 'real world' tests, like the x264 test at the bottom, look at the different between the first past speeds for 1333 RAM, likewise with 'Y-Cruncher', and even SuperPi. If you bought the i5-3570K to really overclock it, the faster memory definitely counts! but in reality, it would probably be kind of like the difference between running at around 4.1Ghz (maybe 4.15) and 4.4Ghz. In other words, 4.4Ghz with 1333 RAM may perform like you are running at 4.1-4.2Ghz. This is a bit of an oversimplification as it depends on what you are doing. For other things it will make much less of a difference.
   
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Default 02-11-2013, 20:22 | posts: 24,245 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
ASRock, as a company, hasn't existed since the early 90's. ASRock didn't exist until 2002 when it was spunoff from Asus. ASRock is owned by Pegatron Corporation, formerly the OEM leg of Asus.

Saying that ASRock boards used to be "cheap and low quality"....is saying the same about Asus, since Pegatron has produced boards for both....and still does. Pegatron produces roughly 30% of the motherboards in Asus' product line.
Asus owns Pegatron (or used to) who own Asrock.....very confusing...

Asrock is and always has been a separate company from ASUS. They are like sister companies.
Even if both Asrock and ASUS were supplied by the same parent company it doesn't mean the quality will be the same.
AcBel for example are OEM for Coolermaster and a few other brands, but they provide cheap units for some and quality units for others....same applies to Pegatron/AsusTek or whatever they call themselves now.....

So as I said, Asrock boards used to be low quality but they have improved over the years.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 02-11-2013 at 20:38. Reason: Got my facts mixed up....
   
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SLI-756
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Default 02-11-2013, 21:49 | posts: 7,534 | Location: Sunny Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster View Post

It's after 1600mhz that performance gains start to diminish.
The fella has stated he's on a z77 plus ivy bridge.

I'm really put of forum life when i hear folks talking without any experience.
   
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Default 02-11-2013, 21:54 | posts: 24,245 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLI-756 View Post
The fella has stated he's on a z77 plus ivy bridge.
So what if he's on Ivy it doesn't matter, 1600 is the sweet spot and always has been.

Quote:
I'm really put of forum life when i hear folks talking without any experience.
LOL!! How ironic - since that's exactly what you're doing. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
   
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Default 02-12-2013, 00:30 | posts: 16,600 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster View Post
Asus owns Pegatron (or used to) who own Asrock.....very confusing...

So as I said, Asrock boards used to be low quality but they have improved over the years.
Not really confusing at all. Asus used to own ASRock. ASRock was created as a subsidiary of Asustek. When Pegatron was spunoff into it's own company, ASRock was transferred to them. Now Pegatron owns ASRock and operates independent of Asustek.

I've been using ASRock boards for almost 7 years....and I've yet to have the first issue whereas I've had nothing but problems from Asus products. My experience says Asus is the one with history of low quality products, not ASRock...


   
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Pill Monster
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Default 02-12-2013, 00:43 | posts: 24,245 | Location: NZ

Yah I know you're a fan of Asrock..... I still stick with ASUS even though I have had 3 boards die on me...
   
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sykozis
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Default 02-12-2013, 01:56 | posts: 16,600 | Location: US East Coast

I'm a fan of quality....and I've seen none from Asus boards.


   
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thatguy91
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Default 02-12-2013, 05:00 | posts: 4,037 | Location: Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster View Post
So what if he's on Ivy it doesn't matter, 1600 is the sweet spot and always has been.
That used to be true (and still is in many ways) but it's a balance between price and performance, and what that balance means to you. I just did a quick look on staticice (a price comparison site that has Aus, US, etc versions), and the cheapest, in Australian dollars, 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM is $33. More typically, the price is around $46.

The best RAM at the upper end of the price/performance comparison is 2133. In fact, there are improvements up to 2133, but after which the performance difference really starts to fall off. Doing a search for 8GB of 2133 RAM, the cheapest 8GB kit is $55, and the typical price is around $65.

So, if you look at the price difference, the 2133 RAM at $65 isn't 45 percent faster than the 1600 RAM at $45, but it is a worthwhile consideration if you aren't on a strict budget. Price wise the 1333 RAM isn't much less than 1600 RAM, and is something I would never recommend anyone getting. If it is sold in bundles or pre-made systems, it is more likely they are trying to get rid of it at a decent (for them) price level.

So Pill Monster is right, 1600 is the 'sweet spot' in the price/performance comparison, but 2133 is the 'sweet spot' for performance when you realistically want to spend a few more dollars. In other words, if you can afford the extra $20 it is worth it!

That said, since you already have the 1333 RAM, that is pretty much what you are stuck with. The only other option you have is to sell off the 1333 and buy 2133 RAM (the upgrade that would make sense) but this will still cost you and may not be worth it, depending on budget considerations.

I hope that makes sense!
   
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ToBbErT
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Default 02-12-2013, 10:35 | posts: 148

Ive got like 400 to upgrade my pc so i got to choose wisely. 200 3570k 115 motherboard and 85 for a powersupply. I could get 2133 ram instead of a new powersupply but my corsair vx450 is like 4 years old. Also when i buy the powersupply now the only thing left is another 7870 and my system is finished. Well buying ram would still be needed but i think with a little bit overclocking the cpu with 1333 should handle two 7870's just fine. Eventually when the prices are good i can switch to 2133. Thanks for he info
   
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Default 02-12-2013, 11:19 | posts: 16,600 | Location: US East Coast

What is the rated voltage of that 1333 memory?


   
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Pill Monster
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Default 02-12-2013, 11:36 | posts: 24,245 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy91 View Post
That used to be true (and still is in many ways) but it's a balance between price and performance, and what that balance means to you. I just did a quick look on staticice (a price comparison site that has Aus, US, etc versions), and the cheapest, in Australian dollars, 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM is $33. More typically, the price is around $46.

The best RAM at the upper end of the price/performance comparison is 2133. In fact, there are improvements up to 2133, but after which the performance difference really starts to fall off. Doing a search for 8GB of 2133 RAM, the cheapest 8GB kit is $55, and the typical price is around $65.

So, if you look at the price difference, the 2133 RAM at $65 isn't 45 percent faster than the 1600 RAM at $45, but it is a worthwhile consideration if you aren't on a strict budget. Price wise the 1333 RAM isn't much less than 1600 RAM, and is something I would never recommend anyone getting. If it is sold in bundles or pre-made systems, it is more likely they are trying to get rid of it at a decent (for them) price level.

So Pill Monster is right, 1600 is the 'sweet spot' in the price/performance comparison, but 2133 is the 'sweet spot' for performance when you realistically want to spend a few more dollars. In other words, if you can afford the extra $20 it is worth it!

That said, since you already have the 1333 RAM, that is pretty much what you are stuck with. The only other option you have is to sell off the 1333 and buy 2133 RAM (the upgrade that would make sense) but this will still cost you and may not be worth it, depending on budget considerations.

I hope that makes sense!
Except for extremely memory intensive apps 2133 is not gonna make a system faster than 1600 and is virtually unnoticeable.

Sure, fast ram looks great in Sandra or AIDA64 but doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference in real life....this has been said time and time again on this forum but still doesn't get through to some people.

Even Hilbert said it's not worth testing CPU's with over 1600mhz ram....there's been articles on AnandTech about it they tested with SB.

Btw this doesn't include APU's which use system memory as vram.

Last edited by Pill Monster; 02-12-2013 at 11:50.
   
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ToBbErT
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Default 02-12-2013, 16:55 | posts: 148

Ive no idea of the voltage of the ram. Any idea how to see that? This is the memory http://www.icidu.com/en/memory/pc-me...3-4gb-kit.html I tried looking for a brand with CPUz but the brand label is empty.
   
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ToBbErT
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Default 02-13-2013, 09:06 | posts: 148

Im having such a hard time making decisions. I would love to go crossfire but i see that my sapphire 7870 OC edition is allready EOL.... My card is 11 months old and allready unavailable... Its been replaced by sapphire 7870 XT. There are a few still available but overpriced. I really want two identical gpu's to avoid any problems And also micro stutter seems a common problem but on the other hand i really need some extra power for my 2560x1440 screen. You guys think two differend 7870 would cause any trouble? And has micro stutter improved or is it a permanent problem wich cant be solved?

The 7870 OC edition is still available my bad. It is a new version though with a differend cooler and the position of the power input has been changed from the side to the rear. Maybe some other things idk. After alot of reading i made the decision to still go for crossfire. Ive no problems with tweaking stuff so it shouldnt be a problem.

Last edited by ToBbErT; 02-13-2013 at 12:08.
   
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Xtreme1979
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Default 02-13-2013, 14:44 | posts: 1,256 | Location: Bay City, MI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pill Monster View Post
Except for extremely memory intensive apps 2133 is not gonna make a system faster than 1600 and is virtually unnoticeable.

Sure, fast ram looks great in Sandra or AIDA64 but doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference in real life....this has been said time and time again on this forum but still doesn't get through to some people.

Even Hilbert said it's not worth testing CPU's with over 1600mhz ram....there's been articles on AnandTech about it they tested with SB.

Btw this doesn't include APU's which use system memory as vram.
For the most part this may be true, but there are exceptions. For instance RE5 maxed settings including AA at 1080p my GTX 680 is bottlenecked by my overclocked 2600K. Moving from 1600 - 2133 memory provided a very nice 10-15 fps boost. Granted I was already pushing well over 120fps, but still the purpose of the comparison is to show there is more performance potential with faster clocked memory and good timings. Honestly, it all comes down to what you can afford, and knowing where there are diminishing returns. If I was on a budget would I buy 2133 memory? Nah, put the money toward something else.

Well memory failed me, it wasn't 10-15fps. Still an improvement especially the closer you get toward CPU bound.


Last edited by Xtreme1979; 02-13-2013 at 23:12.
   
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ToBbErT
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Default 02-14-2013, 07:30 | posts: 148

I didnt expect the difference to be that huge. Always nice to see some numbers
   
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