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  (#76)
WildStyle
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Default 10-04-2004, 16:14 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

What's your RAM running at? 166Mhz still?
You most certainly should be able to get 200x11 with 1.75v, I would've thought, unless your board doesn't like 200FSB. Run memtest to see if it's the FSB causing the problem. You need to create it on a bootable floppy and run it at bootup [the link is on page 7 of this thread I think.]
I presume you haven't run prime95 on your overclock yet? I suggest you do, just to see what clock speeds you can get your CPU upto at what voltages.
   
 
Old
  (#77)
HoT-DoG
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Default 10-04-2004, 21:32 | posts: 32 | Location: Portugal

yes the ram is 166 and fsb at 200. i downloaded prime95 and im running a torture test, a "mixed" one. shall i run all of them? and how long must they be running?
   
Old
  (#78)
WildStyle
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Default 10-04-2004, 22:26 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

Run "In place large FFT's" and if it runs for say an hour without errors then presume that OC okay and try a higher one.
   
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Old
  (#79)
wsad
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Default 2800+ Question - 10-05-2004, 20:54 | posts: 9

I recently bought a 2800+ Proc. Im using a NF7-S 2.0 Mobo. My question is, what multipliers etc.. do u recommend me to OC this one. Thanks
   
 
Old
  (#80)
WildStyle
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Default 10-05-2004, 21:29 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

If you bought it new, then it will undoubtedly have a locked multiplier - to answer your question.

So, if that's the case, you're stuck with a 12.5x multi (I presume you got the Barton version) and you also have PC2700 RAM. Since it's best to keep the FSB and RAM at a 1:1 ratio or in sync, you will be overclocking your RAM when you overclock your FSB since they both run at 166(333)MHz by default. Also, you have to take into account the max clock speed your CPU can handle with increased voltage. I'd estimate you'd get to perhaps 185FSB and with a 12.5x multi that means about 2.3GHz. To get there though, you will need increase voltage on the CPU (vcore) and also on the RAM (vdimm.) You will need fairly good CPU cooling as of course if you raise the vcore your temps will increase also.
So see what your CPU can do at what voltages. Give your RAM 2.8v and that should help it overclock.. otherwise you will be limited by it. I would also advise you don't go over around 1.85vcore (the nf7 undervolts) as well, or until you get to the point where your CPU temps rise over 55-60c. You can use AbitEQ for monitoring.
Another important thing is that you have a good PSU because the CPU is gonna require more watts when overclocked.
   
Old
  (#81)
wsad
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Default 10-05-2004, 21:43 | posts: 9

ill try that WildStyle. Thanks for the fast reply I got a good cooler and a good PSU. Ill give it a try and post the results later. Thanks again
   
Old
  (#82)
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Default 10-05-2004, 22:36 | posts: 32 | Location: Portugal

tnxs for everything wildstyle

when i had the pc 200*11.5 it rebooted while playing an old game.. and it happened A LOT.. so i put it back at 166*12.5.. but then i tought.. IT HAS TO GIVE! and put it again to 200*11.5.. and its working fine! i ran a 1h+ Large TTF test and the temp raised to 46º, and it is 38/39º idle. I guess its a fairly good overclock for an 2400+!

Next step is: copper heat sinks for the RAM, to push it to 400mhz

Last questions (i hope )

A 2400+ @ 2305mhz fsb 400mhz is equivalent to wich processor?

And to overclock the ram.. do i have to change any value besides the vdimm to 2.8v?

I have:
2.5cas
3 ras to cas
3 ras precharge
7 TRAS

thnxs
   
Old
  (#83)
WildStyle
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Default 10-05-2004, 22:45 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

Hey bro, NP.

Good OC. Good temps.
With the RAM, don't bother with heat spreaders, they will do nothing for you. They were originally introduced for RD RAM which actually did get hot, and it helped the heat spread right a long the length of the stick. Nowadays, DDR doesn't really get hot enough (although I hear they are useful on OCZ EB RAM) to warrant their use, and they're more of a modding accessory... so save your money on that one.

To overclock the RAM, you could try loosening timings too. 3-3-3-8 may give you more MHz than 2.5-3-3-8, but just experiment.

Oh and a 200x11.5 CPU would I guess be about equal to a 3000+ Barton give or take a bit (perhaps a tiny bit slower). Same FSB, higher clock speed, but half the L2 cache.
   
Old
  (#84)
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Default 10-06-2004, 00:22 | posts: 32 | Location: Portugal

Now i saw something that i don't quite understand.

My motherboard (see in the right) supports AMD processors up to 333mhz system bus.. and dual ddr up to 400mhz..

1st: isn't it a bit stupid to support ONLY 333 mhz system bus.. and then have 400mhz ram support? i would never take advantage of it

2nd: im going for the O/C of the ram without heatsinks, to see if i can push it to 400mhz, but since my motherboard "supports" only up to 333mhz.. and i HAVE an overclock that gives me 400mhz of system bus.. am i really having that system bus? :S

The questions never end
   
Old
  (#85)
WildStyle
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Default 10-06-2004, 00:50 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

1) It's just the way some chipsets seem to function - supporting a higher RAM freq. than the FSB. Your guess is as good as mine really.

2) Yes. It's possible to overclock more than what your chipset is rated for.

BTW, just read a review on your board and it appears you don't have an option for Cas3 on the RAM in your BIOS.... so that may make overclocking the RAM harder as you cannot now loosen the RAM timings. No cas3 support? Pffft!
   
Old
  (#86)
wsad
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Default 10-06-2004, 02:22 | posts: 9

Quote:
Originally posted by WildStyle
If you bought it new, then it will undoubtedly have a locked multiplier - to answer your question.

So, if that's the case, you're stuck with a 12.5x multi (I presume you got the Barton version) and you also have PC2700 RAM. Since it's best to keep the FSB and RAM at a 1:1 ratio or in sync, you will be overclocking your RAM when you overclock your FSB since they both run at 166(333)MHz by default. Also, you have to take into account the max clock speed your CPU can handle with increased voltage. I'd estimate you'd get to perhaps 185FSB and with a 12.5x multi that means about 2.3GHz. To get there though, you will need increase voltage on the CPU (vcore) and also on the RAM (vdimm.) You will need fairly good CPU cooling as of course if you raise the vcore your temps will increase also.
So see what your CPU can do at what voltages. Give your RAM 2.8v and that should help it overclock.. otherwise you will be limited by it. I would also advise you don't go over around 1.85vcore (the nf7 undervolts) as well, or until you get to the point where your CPU temps rise over 55-60c. You can use AbitEQ for monitoring.
Another important thing is that you have a good PSU because the CPU is gonna require more watts when overclocked.
Well i have this a try, and worked pretty good. Got my system at 2.33 Ghz.
The temperature is pretty good i think, with the cooler at 5600 rpm the temp is at 39º idle and 45º at max while playing. But the fan noise sucks
At 1900 rpm idle is at almost 45º and at max at 59º Guess ill keep the 5900 rpm.

And thx again for the tip
   
Old
  (#87)
HoT-DoG
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Default 10-06-2004, 15:04 | posts: 32 | Location: Portugal

Wildstyle, i o/c'ed the ram from 333 to 400 and i had no problems putting 3 cas latency. the only thing i couldnt do was to put the vdimm to 2.8v, it had to stay auto, bcz i dont have voltage bigger than 2.65v

The way it is.. is it harmless or harmful? 333 mhz to 400mhz and i only changed the CAS from 2.5 to 3
   
Old
  (#88)
WildStyle
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Default 10-06-2004, 18:58 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

@hot-dog - Should be fine. Run memtest86+ on a floppy at bootup (website should tell you know to do it, link is on page 7 i think) and check the timings are stable. If they're not, you'll get errors and if you prolong the use of those unstable timings you may end up with HDD corruption - so best to get them stable.

@wsad - Run it at 3000-3500 RPM then, as a compromise.
Make sure you run prime to ensure stability (if you havent already.) You survive an hour of the torture test "in place large ffts" and i'd say you're fine. GL.
   
Old
  (#89)
PowerGI
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Default 10-14-2004, 09:47 | posts: 86 | Location: Montreal, Canada

I'm about to get an abit nf7-s and a xp-m 2500+, and of cource im thinking about overclocking. Since I currently have cheap value pc2700 ddr ram and considering that 1GB of RAM is propably the second most expensive thing in an athlon XP computer after the video card, should I be better to buy some good pc3500 like said here or think about yet the next upgrade and go for pc4000 (and probably have less performent RAM for the 2500+)? My 2x512mb pc2700 cost me like $450CDN 2 years ago, and its totally obsolite now, so I'd kinna like not to make the same error twice. It would be awesome if in a year or two, when i'll change my mobo/cpu again, that my ram would still be perfect.

I heard that in current athlon xp computers, dual-channel ram is pretty much useless and a single 1GB ram stick is better. But if you're thinking about future upgrades, would it be wise to go with dual-channel anyway?

oh and last thing. I read on a forum that some people have difficulties to overclock the xp-m 2500+ and some people are even stuck at 166fsb, with the correct specs to overclock it... is it something rare?
   
Old
  (#90)
WildStyle
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Default 10-14-2004, 19:00 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

For overclocking, as FSB's/HTT's are getting faster, I would really recommend faster than PC3200, or if it is PC3200, make sure it has great chips on it (OCZ EL rev.2 .)
But really, if you're on a budget, some okay PC3500/3700 would be an idea I think, as all the good overclocking PC3200 tends to work out a lot more expensive than some normal PC3500/3700/4000, and the only real difference is the timings because of the chips used.
If you got some PC4000 like my Kingmax stuff, and you weren't using the full rated 250MHz, you could easily knock it down to whatever FSB you're running and lower the timings appropriately.
I would also say that 2x512Mb sticks are still the way to go as 1GB sticks are usually very expensive and often have slower timings etc (or maybe things have changed since I last looked).
Remember, you don't need a "dual channel kit" for DC, you just need 2 of the same stick (ideally) they don't have to have consecutive batch numbers or whatever either.
How much is a GB (2x512mb) of Kingmax Hardcore PC4000 where you are, and can you easily get some ? I would recommend it.. and it doesn't cost the Earth (over here anyway.)

Stuck at 166FSB :S Must be doing something wrong. I've not heard of that problem.
   
Old
  (#91)
PowerGI
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Default 10-15-2004, 00:52 | posts: 86 | Location: Montreal, Canada

Ohh umm.. I though DC ram had something different... so basically, there is nothing out there called "Dual Channel Ram"? In those dc kits there are simply selling 2 sticks of the exact same "normal" ram? heh i didn't know that...

I looked for Kingmax and didn't find any. I'm buying my stuff in that store: http://www.cipc-info.com/en/ . What they have is Corsair, Kingston and OCZ. If you check on this site and lets say... I've got a limit of 450$ for the memory, what would you suggest me to get? (asking a big favor ^^)

Since the beginning I was thinking about getting pc4000, so that would be my first choice. You where talking about ocz el rev2, so I guess the "2 x 512MB PC-4000 Dual Channel Gold Rev 2 OCZ Dual Channel GOLD Edition"(copy-pasted) would be good? that one is at about 420$.
   
Old
  (#92)
WildStyle
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Default 10-15-2004, 01:15 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

Yeah you are right. It confuses people who don't know into buying more expensive RAM when it's not necessary at all. Matched pairs can come in handy if you want to make sure one stick doesn't OC more than the other, and want a gaurantee they are gonna work together perfectly, but I still would never bother with it, it's not necessary IMO.. especially considering the price premium.

From that site (which doesn't work in FireFox!) these are your best bets:
http://www.cipc-info.com/en/index2.p...ORSAIR&id=5395
http://www.cipc-info.com/en/index2.p...ue=OCZ&id=5582
They both use Samsung TCCD chips, which will do PC4000 speeds easily at great timings.
However, the OCZ reportedly goes even higher in terms of FSB/HTT, so I'd go for that. That's great stuff.
   
Old
  (#93)
WildStyle
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Default 10-19-2004, 21:31 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

I think these two threads are worth a mention for anyone interested:

About the L12 mod for the NF7-S (Okay it's not for beginners but what the hell! ) http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....hreadid=109505

Regarding the overclocking capabiities of XP-M's and more advanced OCing info http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....hreadid=107802
   
Old
  (#94)
lxbugkiller
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Default 10-20-2004, 11:49 | posts: 182 | Location: Israel

Okay while at it... i've got a question...
How bad is my cooling? http://www.titan-cd.com/english/prod...D5TB/G/CU35/R1
   
Old
  (#95)
WildStyle
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Default 10-20-2004, 15:00 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

Oh right... I already posted in your thread. Check that.
   
Old
  (#96)
Scief
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Videocard: Gainward 6800GT @Ultra
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Default 10-22-2004, 19:16 | posts: 1,603 | Location: Finland

Some kisk-ass manual you have here, that will help much.

Ok, so I'd like to ask you guru's (looks that basicly WildStyle, if You haven't get tired to answering in these forums, you could be called as a real master if you already haven't)

I've got 2500+ Athlon (haven't installed it yet).
256mb pc2100 ram and 512 mb pc2700 ram.
MSI KT3V http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produc...il.php?UID=385 (I read that kt333 boards can't be OC:d much because of PCI-AGP things)
350W Codegen PSU (investigation and answer, it can handle that sytem, if it doesn't, I'll buy a new one).

I would like to OC that processor after I buy 6800 GT, but after searching, it can be very hard/impossible, because of my ram. I thought I could OC it to 2800+ levels(that's best my board can deal with). So, should I OC my FSB, buy new ram or what? Can I OC my processor without doing anything else? And does little OC need much power from PSU? and my mobo can deal with max pc2700 memory, so I can't oc FSB above 166? Now with 1800+ athlon and those rams it's 133. I have funny Fuzzylogic tool that I can use, MSI's own.

Maybe some of these things could be found at bigger search, but if you are helpful, I can get more accurate answers here, thanks people . Almost ready for PC upgrade, this OC/Ram thing Is the last I think.



And that's funny, that manual said that temperature should be under 55 C, my 1800+ athlon is 65 with no OC .
   
Old
  (#97)
WildStyle
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Default 10-22-2004, 19:57 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

Yuh, a little on the hot-side there.

I'm sure I can give you a few pointers. It's my thread, and the idea of it was so that anyone having problems/wanting help could ask me. I used to get a bit tired of having to answer a lot of different questions on the subject in whole different threads/PM's... so I figured having it all in one place, with a guide to it.. would be nice.

Now, bearing in mind 6800GT's consume about 100W on their own, you will most likely need a new PSU anyway, as Codegens compare to generics (uh... not v. good quality.) Which new PSU's are available to you?

You will need PC3200 or at the very least PC2700 RAM to OC the 2500+, as it has a default 166FSB and you don't want to be limited by the memory. Also, as you want to run the FSB and the RAM frequency in sync, you need to get rid of the PC2100 from your system, really, or you will be forced to run async and you'll subsequentally lose performance because of that... even if you're not overclocking.

As for OCing the FSB, the board will limit you yes, because it lacks PCI/AGP locks. Higher frequencies on these can lead to fried cards and data corruption/dead HDD's..... so I really don't know how far you will be able to get with that board... and to be honest I wouldn't hold much hope for reaching much above 166 (the stock FSB.)
Now, the alternative would be to raise the multiplier. As you haven't installed the chip yet, would you be able to write here all the coding on the sticker which is on the PCB of the chip itself (It's black, and located centrally at the bottom)? This way I could tell you if it's unlocked or not. If you got it recently, then it will most likely be locked, but if you're very lucky, it will be unlocked and you can OC via the multiplier.
   
Old
  (#98)
Scief
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Default 10-22-2004, 21:46 | posts: 1,603 | Location: Finland

Ok, so maybe I have to skip OC'ing . Yeah but that multiplier thing, I'll find out what that does ( now I have to get some sleep), I'm not very familiar with OC ing, my brother does it. I'll ask it when he's not busy. Anyway the chip says

axda2500 9787947281309
aqxea 0330tpmw 1999 amd

This was the info you needed?

Because people are so sure about that ram thing, I think I will buy new ram (most likely 512mb pc2700 if better isn't cheaper as sometimes ) and get rif of that 256mb pc2100. If not same time as I buy the card, then very soon after.

I have a thread about 6800 PSU, people gave me different results, but it seems that many can use 250-350(250, can't be true) psu with that. I compared their setting with this http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/ and my own, I got samething around 290-309 with that, it's minimum but it means if every component is in use at the same time (very unlikely). I'll go for my luck, allthought it seems that it will work, but if it doesn't, I'll buy a new PSU. We'll see.

If I get two pc2700 sticks and 166mhz FSB, can I then OC my processor even for 2600+ without touching FSB? Damn I hate that FSB thing. But OC would be good so that I don't bottleneck that card that much.
   
Old
  (#99)
WildStyle
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Default 10-22-2004, 22:29 | posts: 15,302 | Location: UK

Looks like you're in luck.
aqxea 0330tpmw the "0330" in bold there is the week and year of production. Yours was made in the 30th week of 2003, and AMD starting locking their XP's after the 39th week of 2003, or 0339, this means yours is unlocked. So now you can up the multiplier and OC your CPU until either it's maxed out, you need too much vcore to get it stable, or your temps get too high.
If you intend on keeping your current PC2700 then yes get another PC2700 stick to accompany it. If you purchased PC3200 it would only run at the speed of the slower stick anyway (so PC2700 speeds in your case) and so you wouldn't be able to use the full potential of it.
I personally don't like that PSU link because you never can really tell how much wattage each component uses.. but I guess it's okay for a very brief estimate. With your 350w.... remember that because it's quite low quality, it'd probably only be as good as a 300w from a good brand such as Antec.
   
Old
  (#100)
Alo
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Default 10-23-2004, 09:38 | posts: 129 | Location: BC.Canada

I just got a 2800xp and it looks like I can change settings in the bios,Nvidia2 chipset. I have pc3200 corsair ram too.
I get the impression I should keep the ram in sync with the FSB to work correctly.
If I bring the FSB up in steps, will the ram just follow along?
   
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