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Driver issues since 17.4.2 (On two different systems and video cards)
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
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PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default Driver issues since 17.4.2 (On two different systems and video cards) - 06-16-2017, 01:34 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Hey all,
I've been experiencing issues on two different systems running two different generations of graphics cards from AMD and I'm looking to see if this is driver related or something that might be causing a conflict with them.

First, my two systems are

My PC
Crosshair VI Hero (Bios 1401)
AMD R7 1700x (3.8Ghz)
AMD RX 580 8GB Sapphire Nitro +
16GB (2x8) DDR4 G.Skill RGB Trident 2400Mhz
Samsung EVO 960 250GB (NVME)
2 3TB (Seagate+WD) 1 Samsung 1TB (All 7200RPM)
Rosewill Lightning 1300W PSU
3 Monitors (1 24" 1080p 60Hz HDMI 1 27" DVI) (1 27" 1440p 144Hz 1ms FreeSync)

Wife's PC
Crosshair V Formula Z (Bios 2201)
AMD FX 8350 (4.4Ghz)
AMD R9 290 4GB Sapphire OC
16GB (2x8) DDR3 G.Skill Sniper 2400Mhz
Samsung EVO 850 250GB (SATA)
1 1TB Seagate
Thermaltake 750W PSU
1 Monitor 24" 1080p 60Hz HDMI


Now the issue I've been having with all the drivers since 17.4.2 is that the system freezes and is slow with responses. It seems to mostly affect Universal Apps the most but some apps don't seem to have as much of an issue while others do. This issue causes the mouse the freeze (I believe it's the screen failing to render/update and not really the mouse freezing) and resizing/alt+tabbing to be very slow.

I captured a video of it in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tslGuIGTueY (Note I recorded this on the insider build but I've tested it on both machines on the latest Creators Update builds/patches and the same results)

The biggest issue with this, is if I get a notification through the action center, this can cause my game to freeze while playing making it even more frustrating. Now with my 290 I can drop back to the 17.4.1 drivers and the issue is gone, sadly, with the 580 I can't as the first drivers released were the 17.4.2 where I started experiencing this issue. Now using the built in Windows Basic Display Drivers, the issue doesn't happen either just as an experiment I tried.

Things I have tried
Fresh install of Windows
Installing with and without Relive
Resetting Bios to Default Values
DDU Drivers
Raising Power limits to 50%
Having Windows on High Performance (Always is)
FreeSync on and off (Wife's computer has no FreeSync)
Tested all drivers from 17.4.2 -17.6.2


So I'm at a lost and I'm looking for help to see what could be causing this, if it's a software related issue I'm not thinking of or if in fact this is a driver issue. Any help would be thankful!

Last edited by KyleStilkey; 06-16-2017 at 06:47.
   
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Watcher
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Default 06-16-2017, 03:54 | posts: 2,334 | Location: Canada

You definitely should not be having that issue with either of these builds.

Grasping at straws here but:
Have you installed the motherboard drivers?
Updated the Bios?

It's very, very odd that both builds are having the same issue?

You did not indicate the make and model for the motherboards used in these builds.

Last edited by Watcher; 06-16-2017 at 04:09.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Default 06-16-2017, 06:42 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher View Post
You definitely should not be having that issue with either of these builds.

Grasping at straws here but:
Have you installed the motherboard drivers?
Updated the Bios?

It's very, very odd that both builds are having the same issue?

You did not indicate the make and model for the motherboards used in these builds.
Look to the left for my current build, the wife's PC's a ASUS Crosshair Formula Z both running the latest bios and yes motherboard drivers and chipsets.

17.4.1 don't have this issue, it all started when they released 4.2 and supported the creators update. Dropping to 4.1 on the 290 works great, but anything beyond that is having issues and it's very annoying when it happens in games.

Update: I updated the original post with the motherboards and bios. I will also create a video on my wife's PC since I can show the exact issue happening better.

Last edited by KyleStilkey; 06-16-2017 at 06:49.
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 06-16-2017, 12:19 | posts: 2,869 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleStilkey View Post
Look to the left for my current build, the wife's PC's a ASUS Crosshair Formula Z both running the latest bios and yes motherboard drivers and chipsets.

17.4.1 don't have this issue, it all started when they released 4.2 and supported the creators update. Dropping to 4.1 on the 290 works great, but anything beyond that is having issues and it's very annoying when it happens in games.

Update: I updated the original post with the motherboards and bios. I will also create a video on my wife's PC since I can show the exact issue happening better.
Stick with Drivers before WDDM 2.2
Also try 17.1.2 WHQL Feb6

Ofcourse when new drivers comes online -> try them, just hit upgrade/custom/install in ATI Setup
no Fresh/no DDU
   
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Krteq
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Default 06-16-2017, 12:24 | posts: 319 | Location: Czech Republic

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleStilkey View Post
Hey all,
I've been experiencing issues on two different systems running two different generations of graphics cards from AMD and I'm looking to see if this is driver related or something that might be causing a conflict with them.
Is there any 3rd party software running on both systems?

I have no such issues on R9 290 with 17.6.1 and I never experienced something like this.

//Just noticed that both MBs are from ASUS. Do you have some ASUS utility installed?
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-16-2017, 15:41 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnnA View Post
Stick with Drivers before WDDM 2.2
Also try 17.1.2 WHQL Feb6

Ofcourse when new drivers comes online -> try them, just hit upgrade/custom/install in ATI Setup
no Fresh/no DDU
Already do this, I posted that I've tried DDU/Fresh installs just to be 100% sure it's not an issue with the install method. How do you expect me to install those on my 580 system? 17.4.1 work completely fine, it's 17.4.2 that they added WDDM 2.2 support and that's when the issues started to happen and sadly that's the first release drivers for the 500 series.

The issue is I'm unable to have a good experience with my 580.

Last edited by KyleStilkey; 06-16-2017 at 15:51.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-16-2017, 15:43 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krteq View Post
Is there any 3rd party software running on both systems?

I have no such issues on R9 290 with 17.6.1 and I never experienced something like this.

//Just noticed that both MBs are from ASUS. Do you have some ASUS utility installed?
No utilities running, only one is my ASUS ARUR to control the color, but my wife's PC only has Razer Synapse, Samsung Magician and Malwarebytes running for third party software and still experiences the same issues.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-16-2017, 15:47 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

I want to also thank the people here who have jumped in and are trying to figure this one out, already better suggestions on here than on Reddit and AMD's forums.
   
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Krteq
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PSU: Seasonic 620W
Default 06-16-2017, 16:28 | posts: 319 | Location: Czech Republic

I don't really think this is driver related. Something else have to causing this.

Have you checked processes if there are some spikes in CPU usage for some process?
   
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KyleStilkey
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Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-16-2017, 17:24 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krteq View Post
I don't really think this is driver related. Something else have to causing this.

Have you checked processes if there are some spikes in CPU usage for some process?
It's not a CPU usage issue, if I can drop back to the 17.4.1 drivers and not have this issue, it's clearly something with the drivers or something has changed with the drivers that some software is causing issues.

Yes to be sure I've checked, CPU doesn't show any issues on both systems.

Also Windows GAME MODE is OFF.
   
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Chastity
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Default 06-16-2017, 19:36 | posts: 524

I would certainly check for any memory leaks of a driver or application. Also, what are your virtual memory settings?
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
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PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-16-2017, 20:39 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chastity View Post
I would certainly check for any memory leaks of a driver or application. Also, what are your virtual memory settings?
Virtual Memory is set to Windows Default, I don't manually change it nor should it be changed.

No memory leaks at all either, Memory usage is just fine.

Someone over on Reddit's Sub forum has posted a possible solution and I will report back if this fixes it or not. I'll let you all know as soon as I get home and can test it.

Sadly his suggestion didn't work, he said he was having the same issue and changing the Frequency in Wattman to Dynamic fixed it for him, but nothing changed.

Last edited by KyleStilkey; 06-16-2017 at 20:50.
   
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LocoDiceGR
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Default 06-17-2017, 07:26 | posts: 650 | Location: Greece

Seems like a conflict to me, have you tried the format solution?
   
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Watcher
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Soundcard: On board Realtek
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Default 06-17-2017, 17:45 | posts: 2,334 | Location: Canada

This makes no sense how two different setups are having the same issues?

Have you installed Direct X?

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...010_redist.exe < Link to direct download.

Any devices showing in trouble in Device Manager?

To make sure you have the latest device drivers, I use " Snappy Driver Installer ". I highly recommend this program.
I prefer using the " Full Version " which is a 12GB download from this location:

https://sdi-tool.org/download/

or

https://sdi-tool.org/releases/ < Download the " R1751 " file and run the client that will then download from the Torrent servers. This is the method I use.

Once downloaded, you may run the program on any Windows computer and it will scan your configuration and indicate which devices are able to be updated.

You can run the " Lite version " however it will need to download the device drivers before they can be installed. Since you are only downloading the device drivers for your computer, the download size is considerably smaller.

Both versions download their files from torrent servers.

Keep us updated.

Last edited by Watcher; 06-17-2017 at 22:40. Reason: " R1741 " to " R1751 "
   
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primetime^
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PSU: Black Widow 850
Default 06-17-2017, 18:36 | posts: 801 | Location: SC

I get the freezing mouse as well in somewhat different occasions....I have noticed when i start watching a video the mouse will freeze for a couple seconds...I dont recall having it happen in a game yet...but i can say before getting my rx580 it never happened before.
   
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DerSchniffles
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Default 06-18-2017, 04:26 | posts: 1,389 | Location: Washington State

Have you done a clean install without loading all your daily programs? Two different builds with the exact same problems....there has to be a conflict with something else. I would start over and see if a fresh install with NO other programs loaded have the same problem. No malwarebytes, no magician, no razer synapse etc. See if you have the same problems with just a simple and basic fresh install and then slowly load up your programs and see which one is the culprit.

My .02 cents
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-18-2017, 05:07 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher View Post
This makes no sense how two different setups are having the same issues?

Have you installed Direct X?

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...010_redist.exe < Link to direct download.

Any devices showing in trouble in Device Manager?

To make sure you have the latest device drivers, I use " Snappy Driver Installer ". I highly recommend this program.
I prefer using the " Full Version " which is a 12GB download from this location:

https://sdi-tool.org/download/

or

https://sdi-tool.org/releases/ < Download the " R1751 " file and run the client that will then download from the Torrent servers. This is the method I use.

Once downloaded, you may run the program on any Windows computer and it will scan your configuration and indicate which devices are able to be updated.

You can run the " Lite version " however it will need to download the device drivers before they can be installed. Since you are only downloading the device drivers for your computer, the download size is considerably smaller.

Both versions download their files from torrent servers.

Keep us updated.
Yes I do have the latest Drivers installed for devices and I have used that program recently to check and it came back with 0 new updates.

I also reinstalled the DirectX through the method you asked and nothing changed, I already have done this too as I tend to check this method if I'm having an issue with games.

Having it happen on two systems is what's throwing me off too, drives me nuts but if I drop to 17.4.1 the issue is gone, same with the basic drivers from Windows doesn't present this issue.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-18-2017, 05:08 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by LocoDiceGR View Post
Seems like a conflict to me, have you tried the format solution?
If you read the post you would know the answer to that.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-18-2017, 05:09 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime^ View Post
I get the freezing mouse as well in somewhat different occasions....I have noticed when i start watching a video the mouse will freeze for a couple seconds...I dont recall having it happen in a game yet...but i can say before getting my rx580 it never happened before.
I know people are experiencing this when watching videos but this is straight from a fresh reboot with almost nothing running and I can still reproduce it.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-18-2017, 05:11 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerSchniffles View Post
Have you done a clean install without loading all your daily programs? Two different builds with the exact same problems....there has to be a conflict with something else. I would start over and see if a fresh install with NO other programs loaded have the same problem. No malwarebytes, no magician, no razer synapse etc. See if you have the same problems with just a simple and basic fresh install and then slowly load up your programs and see which one is the culprit.

My .02 cents
Already have, but I'm going to first try doing this through the Clean Boot method, only have Windows startup with the bar basics and go from there, see if the issue is gone with a clean boot and if not I'll try another refresh with 0 installs and just the AMD drivers. Maybe we can hit something.

EDIT: Clean Boot nothing changed, and I did a fresh install on my wife's PC and gave it a test, no difference. I'm at a loss here.

Update 2: I'm going to create a Media Install of the Anv. Update (1607) and test that out, see if maybe the WDM 2.2 change could be the cause, anything at this point is worth a shot.

Update 3: I'm on 1607 with 0 issues on 17.6.2 drivers So before I start to install anything, I'm going to upgrade to 1703 (Creators Update) and see if the issue starts, if not I will go one software at a time and test.

Update 4: I may have to test it in the morning/sometime later tomorrow, but so far with the latest updates to 1607 and all the store apps, no problems. 1703 is downloading and will be installing in about 10 mins so if you don't get another update in the next 30 mins, I will update you all tomorrow on my findings. I hope everything works out on 1703 now and I can find the cause.

Last edited by KyleStilkey; 06-18-2017 at 06:36.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-18-2017, 19:21 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Alright everyone, here is the update, I did a fresh install of 1703. It looks like the default drivers from Windows Updates for the 580 is 17.1.1. 0 issues. I installed the 17.6.2 drivers and the issues started happening, no additional software installed, nothing, just straight fresh install to 17.6.2.

It only happens on the creators update and up so my guess is it has possibly something to do with their support for either WDM 2.2 or whatever changes made in the creators update they might be trying to support. Anything else you guys can think of let me know.
   
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Watcher
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Soundcard: On board Realtek
PSU: OCZ StealthXStream 2 600W
Default 06-19-2017, 19:49 | posts: 2,334 | Location: Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleStilkey View Post
Alright everyone, here is the update, I did a fresh install of 1703. It looks like the default drivers from Windows Updates for the 580 is 17.1.1. 0 issues. I installed the 17.6.2 drivers and the issues started happening, no additional software installed, nothing, just straight fresh install to 17.6.2.

It only happens on the creators update and up so my guess is it has possibly something to do with their support for either WDM 2.2 or whatever changes made in the creators update they might be trying to support. Anything else you guys can think of let me know.
The only question I have; why is this not happening to everyone?

My best guess is something needs to be installed on your fresh Windows installation.

I would start by install .NET Framework V3.5 and then V4.7.
I use " .NET Version Detector " http://www.asoft.be/prod_netver.html
which not only checks which versions you have installed but also give you a download link for them.

Next I would install C++ Runtime libraries from our own forum member " thatguy91 ":

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....83#post5444383

I would also install the " AMD Chipset Drivers " from this Amd: http://support.amd.com/en-us/downloa...dows+10+-+64#4

Look under " Option Downloads " and download " AMD Chipset Drivers "

I would then verify that the " PCI Bus " and the " AMD SMBus " have been updated. Direction provided by another forum member " Me " :

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=373501&page=4
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=373501

Keep us updated.

Last edited by Watcher; 06-19-2017 at 19:58.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-20-2017, 07:20 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher View Post
The only question I have; why is this not happening to everyone?

My best guess is something needs to be installed on your fresh Windows installation.

I would start by install .NET Framework V3.5 and then V4.7.
I use " .NET Version Detector " http://www.asoft.be/prod_netver.html
which not only checks which versions you have installed but also give you a download link for them.

Next I would install C++ Runtime libraries from our own forum member " thatguy91 ":

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....83#post5444383

I would also install the " AMD Chipset Drivers " from this Amd: http://support.amd.com/en-us/downloa...dows+10+-+64#4

Look under " Option Downloads " and download " AMD Chipset Drivers "

I would then verify that the " PCI Bus " and the " AMD SMBus " have been updated. Direction provided by another forum member " Me " :

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=373501&page=4
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=373501

Keep us updated.
I have already done all of those steps and also I am the one who hosts those files from my website too for users that were having a hard time finding them since they changed the packages.

I can 100% of the time get it to do it with the Pandora app, now I'm not sure if it's the method it's using to render or not but if I get a notification from say Skype (App not Desktop App) or Outlook Mail from time to time, just getting the notification from the action center causes this issue with the random stutters and freezing.

So a very simple task is if you could install the Pandora App from the store and just test moving it around the screen very fast and resizing it and see if it causes the issue on your end. It only seems to affect mostly UWP Apps which I use daily. I will have to when I get some free time create that video I captured on my wife's PC showing off 17.4.1, 17.4.2 and 17.6.2.
   
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Watcher
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Videocard: Gigabyte Windforce R9 380
Processor: FX-8350@4.8 H80iV2 Corsai
Mainboard: ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0
Memory: G.SKILL RIPJAWS 8GB @1866
Soundcard: On board Realtek
PSU: OCZ StealthXStream 2 600W
Default 06-20-2017, 18:43 | posts: 2,334 | Location: Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleStilkey View Post
I have already done all of those steps and also I am the one who hosts those files from my website too for users that were having a hard time finding them since they changed the packages.

I can 100% of the time get it to do it with the Pandora app, now I'm not sure if it's the method it's using to render or not but if I get a notification from say Skype (App not Desktop App) or Outlook Mail from time to time, just getting the notification from the action center causes this issue with the random stutters and freezing.

So a very simple task is if you could install the Pandora App from the store and just test moving it around the screen very fast and resizing it and see if it causes the issue on your end. It only seems to affect mostly UWP Apps which I use daily. I will have to when I get some free time create that video I captured on my wife's PC showing off 17.4.1, 17.4.2 and 17.6.2.
I believe you. If you want to make a video you can but it's really not necessary

You have already performed the suggested actions which is a good start, lets see if you have also done the following:

Disable UPLS:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=361702

Activate High Precision Event Timer (HPET):

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....12#post4412312

Test setting: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....36#post4568336

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/.../bb897568.aspx

Modify CPU Delayed and Critical Worker Threads Registry settings:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...bts.10%29.aspx

Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Executive]
"AdditionalDelayedWorkerThreads"=dword:0000000a
"AdditionalCriticalWorkerThreads"=dword:0000000a
This gives a decimal value of 10 for both settings. Can be increased to a maximum of decimal value of 16 which is a HEX value of: dword:00000010

Keep us updated.
   
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KyleStilkey
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Videocard: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+
Processor: AMD R7 1700X OC 3.8Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Tridentz RGB 2400
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
PSU: Rosewill LIGHTNING-1300w
Default 06-21-2017, 08:12 | posts: 426 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher View Post
I believe you. If you want to make a video you can but it's really not necessary

You have already performed the suggested actions which is a good start, lets see if you have also done the following:

Disable UPLS:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=361702

Activate High Precision Event Timer (HPET):

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....12#post4412312

Test setting: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....36#post4568336

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/.../bb897568.aspx

Modify CPU Delayed and Critical Worker Threads Registry settings:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...bts.10%29.aspx

Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Executive]
"AdditionalDelayedWorkerThreads"=dword:0000000a
"AdditionalCriticalWorkerThreads"=dword:0000000a
This gives a decimal value of 10 for both settings. Can be increased to a maximum of decimal value of 16 which is a HEX value of: dword:00000010

Keep us updated.
No change with all of these changes done.
   
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