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1080 Ti on 1080p@60 Hz and why it makes sense
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Terepin
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Default 1080 Ti on 1080p@60 Hz and why it makes sense - 05-30-2017, 07:14 | posts: 604 | Location: Košice, Slovakia

Many (if not all) people think that this card is overkill/waste of money for 1080p/60 Hz gaming. It might look that way, but those people fail to realize 3 simple truths:
1. VSync: Maintaining stable 60 FPS the whole time is the alpha and omega when using VSync. Almost all reviews contain only average framerate numbers, which are useless for VSync. Minimal framerate is what counts and here powerful GPUs shines.
2. Antialiasing: And I mean all of them. I guarantee you that I can make even 1080 Ti to choke blood while - unsuccessfully - trying to maintain stable 60 FPS. Just because I have 1080p/60 Hz monitor that doesn't mean I play games on that resolution as well.
3. Investment: Buying the most powerful card currently on the market and keeping it for, say, 7 years is significantly more advantageous than replacing 3 mainstream cards during the same time period (because of the reason above).

So you see, there is a reason to have a top gaming PC even if you don't have 4k/144 Hz monitor. And even when you do have one, the quest for perfection continues - to have stable 144 FPS at 4k resolution.
   
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sverek
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Default 05-30-2017, 08:08 | posts: 2,864 | Location: Ibaraki, Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terepin View Post
1. VSync: Maintaining stable 60 FPS the whole time is the alpha and omega when using VSync. Almost all reviews contain only average framerate numbers, which are useless for VSync. Minimal framerate is what counts and here powerful GPUs shines.
Ever heard of Fast-Sync or Tripple buffer VSync? Oh, there also FreeSync and GSync. In my experience, minimum fps chokes are caused by CPU and not GPU. If you have trouble running game, you can lower taxing video settings. We talk about that later. Can't do that to CPU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terepin View Post
2. Antialiasing: And I mean all of them. I guarantee you that I can make even 1080 Ti to choke blood while - unsuccessfully - trying to maintain stable 60 FPS. Just because I have 1080p/60 Hz monitor that doesn't mean I play games on that resolution as well.
AA is less important on higher resolution. While game looks better with AA, it doesn't mean you need AAx16 to have playable game.
You will need 4 Titans in SLI to run 1080p game on 60fps if you start to MAXING OUT ALL existing settings in game and driver panel. Just cause you can overload your GPU with barely visible features, doesn't mean "it's the way it meant to be played".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terepin View Post
3. Investment: Buying the most powerful card currently on the market and keeping it for, say, 7 years is significantly more advantageous than replacing 3 mainstream cards during the same time period (because of the reason above).
Performance wise, yes. Unfortunately GPU technology will be obsolete by then and while everybody might be enjoying new features (DX13, Encoding/Decoding, Vulkan, etc...) you still stack with your old card.
EDIT: Actually, you won't be able to play 1080@60fps anymore with 1080Ti on ULTRA settings with MAXED out AA next year after purchase. We have to stay true to our first statement. (ULTRA SETTINGS! MAX AA!)
Sadly, games are evolving. You have to go for 720p to be able to maintain stable 60fps. And 6 years after, you need to switch to 480p to be able to maintain 60 fps.

So what, we still beating the old horse?
Yes you can 100% load your 1080Ti to play 720p@30fps on ULTRA settings. But do we have to? Do we have to scroll all video settings ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT cause we can? Is it the way it meant to be played?

Personally, I enjoy playing BF4 and KF2 1440@96fps with tripple vsync.
Guess what? GTX970 can play just fine on high settings.



Last edited by sverek; 05-30-2017 at 08:23.
   
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Default 05-30-2017, 08:35 | posts: 330 | Location: Ireland

Any monitor that does 120-144hz and card making 120fps high or ultra makes sense for me. 60hz is no go. It basically sucks. Can clearly see diffrence, just move my mouse...
FPS are better with 120hz, TPP not so much but still I see more. I do not use aa as in many cases display looks misty, fonts blurred or just fkd up...

If I could change screen then for sure it will be 2k with 120hz at least, and maybe IPS.

60hz sucks. It sucked when I switched from CRT that was doing 100hz at ~1200X900 and I went to 22 inch lcd, and sucked on 24 inch ips dell screen. My results went down, game feeling in FPS was bad. That's it.
   
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Default 05-30-2017, 08:47 | posts: 604 | Location: Košice, Slovakia

Quote:
Originally Posted by sverek View Post
Ever heard of Fast-Sync or Tripple buffer VSync? Oh, there also FreeSync and GSync. In my experience, minimum fps chokes are caused by CPU and not GPU. If you have trouble running game, you can lower taxing video settings. We talk about that later. Can't do that to CPU.
Fast Sync requires game to be rendered a lot faster than target refresh rate (don't know the exact numbers), triple buffered VSync doesn't jump from 60 to 30 FPS, but as a result it introduces stuttering when framerate drops even by 1 FPS. I'm planning to buy GSync monitor, but I'm waiting for HDR models and this issue doesn't apply to them anyway. Because of minimum framerate I have Core i7 and not i5. I know my ****, bro. This isn't my first rodeo. The point of buying such beast is to NEVER lower taxing video settings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sverek View Post
AA is less important on higher resolution. While game looks better with AA, it doesn't mean you need AAx16 to have playable game.
You will need 4 Titans in SLI to run 1080p game on 60fps if you start to MAXING OUT ALL existing settings in game and driver panel. Just cause you can overload your GPU with barely visible features, doesn't mean "it's the way it meant to be played".
Less important yes, but not completely unneeded. But this is 1080p monitor and the reason of buying 1080 Ti for it we're talking about, so yes, AA is very important. And nowadays plenty games has ****ty/none AA, so downsampling is the only way to achieve greater quality. You also have supersampling, which is basically the same thing. SSAA alone makes any game looking great, but SSAA + TAA is pure visual porn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sverek View Post
Performance wise, yes. Unfortunately GPU technology will be obsolete by then and while everybody might be enjoying new features (DX13, Encoding/Decoding, Vulkan, etc...) you still stack with your old card.
EDIT: Actually, you won't be able to play 1080@60fps anymore with 1080Ti on ULTRA settings with MAXED out AA next year after purchase. We have to stay true to our first statement. (ULTRA SETTINGS! MAX AA!)
Sadly, games are evolving. You have to go for 720p to be able to maintain stable 60fps. And 6 years after, you need to switch to 480p to be able to maintain 60 fps.

So what, we still beating the old horse?
Yes you can 100% load your 1080Ti to play 720p@30fps on ULTRA settings. But do we have to? Do we have to scroll all video settings ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT cause we can? Is it the way it meant to be played?

Personally, I enjoy playing BF4 and KF2 1440@96fps with tripple vsync.
Guess what? GTX970 can play just fine on high settings.
Uhm, dude, my whole point was that 1080 Ti can be fully utilized even on 1080p. Nothing more, nothing else.
   
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Terepin
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Default 05-30-2017, 08:48 | posts: 604 | Location: Košice, Slovakia

Quote:
Originally Posted by GREGIX View Post
Any monitor that does 120-144hz and card making 120fps high or ultra makes sense for me. 60hz is no go. It basically sucks. Can clearly see diffrence, just move my mouse...
FPS are better with 120hz, TPP not so much but still I see more. I do not use aa as in many cases display looks misty, fonts blurred or just fkd up...

If I could change screen then for sure it will be 2k with 120hz at least, and maybe IPS.

60hz sucks. It sucked when I switched from CRT that was doing 100hz at ~1200X900 and I went to 22 inch lcd, and sucked on 24 inch ips dell screen. My results went down, game feeling in FPS was bad. That's it.
And I agree, but this isn't discussion about which monitor is superior.
   
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pegasus1
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Default 05-30-2017, 09:19 | posts: 633 | Location: Essex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terepin View Post
Many (if not all) people think that this card is overkill/waste of money for 1080p/60 Hz gaming. It might look that way, but those people fail to realize 3 simple truths:
1. VSync: Maintaining stable 60 FPS the whole time is the alpha and omega when using VSync. Almost all reviews contain only average framerate numbers, which are useless for VSync. Minimal framerate is what counts and here powerful GPUs shines.
2. Antialiasing: And I mean all of them. I guarantee you that I can make even 1080 Ti to choke blood while - unsuccessfully - trying to maintain stable 60 FPS. Just because I have 1080p/60 Hz monitor that doesn't mean I play games on that resolution as well.
3. Investment: Buying the most powerful card currently on the market and keeping it for, say, 7 years is significantly more advantageous than replacing 3 mainstream cards during the same time period (because of the reason above).

So you see, there is a reason to have a top gaming PC even if you don't have 4k/144 Hz monitor. And even when you do have one, the quest for perfection continues - to have stable 144 FPS at 4k resolution.
I agree 100%, even though i game at 1440p i buy my cards with the intent of keeping them as long as possible, my 1080Ti replaced my 780gtx which (when OCed and OVolted) has lasted me really well. I bet the majority of negative views posted here will be from jealous non Ti owners
   
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sverek
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Default 05-30-2017, 09:23 | posts: 2,864 | Location: Ibaraki, Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terepin View Post
Uhm, dude, my whole point was that 1080 Ti can be fully utilized even on 1080p. Nothing more, nothing else.
And how does it make any sense? (as you mentioning in your title)
I just can't grasp what you trying to proof.

Yes, you can fully utilize any hardware by running benchmark or simple endless loop. Be it 1080, 720 or 360p.
Just because developers poorly optimized game engine or decided to infinitely load GPU on higher settings, doesn't mean you have to play with it or adjust to it.


   
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Terepin
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Default 05-30-2017, 09:25 | posts: 604 | Location: Košice, Slovakia

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Originally Posted by sverek View Post
I just can't grasp what you trying to proof.
*sigh* That the 1080 Ti is not overkill or useless on 1080p/60 Hz monitor.
   
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Default 05-30-2017, 09:31 | posts: 6,852 | Location: Austria (no kangaroos here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terepin View Post
*sigh* That the 1080 Ti is not overkill or useless on 1080p/60 Hz monitor.
Honestly, I'm the last guy to say you shouldn't buy that thing if you have the money and want to go for it, but it is a little overkill, you have to admit that people could seriously doubt the ultimate wisdom behind it.

But it makes sense, I understand it. Went that way myself while going for 980SLI with a 1080p/60Hz screen before switching over to 1440p. And especially things get interesting for future prospects, like you mentioned in pt.3, which indeed is legit if you can imagine turning down details from maxed out to "only" high in a few years.

I just was too stubborn to reduce detail on my 580GTX 3GB and played BF4 with 30fps... I'm an eye candy whore.
   
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sverek
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Default 05-30-2017, 09:52 | posts: 2,864 | Location: Ibaraki, Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terepin View Post
*sigh* That the 1080 Ti is not overkill or useless on 1080p/60 Hz monitor.
Why bother getting i7 CPU, when Celeron can work with 1080Ti just fine?
It's same logic with monitor resolution.

If you willing to spend money to have GPU for gaming that can make 1440p@144hz moniors shine and yet use it for old 1080p@60hz panels, there something wrong with your priorities.

But, whatever makes sense for you. Enjoy.


   
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Default 05-30-2017, 09:59 | posts: 247 | Location: UK

What you describe is similar to buying a Ferrari to drive to the local shops each day for a pint of milk.

Obviously it can do that, but it's overkill. I'm ordering my new build tomorrow and I'm going 1440@165hz. My friend has one and it makes my 60hz panel look awful. Check it out
   
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Default 05-30-2017, 10:51 | posts: 7,153

I think majority of 1080ti owners will prefer something better than 1080p 60hz. If not, face palm .
   
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H83
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Default 05-30-2017, 11:54 | posts: 1,949 | Location: Mars

I´m sorry Terepin but for me getting a 1080Ti and pair it with a 1080p@60Hz is an huge overkill and a giant waste of money!... I´m also using a monitor with the same resolution and refresh rate and even my 1070 is clearly overkill for this!

That´s why i´m looking for a new 1440p@144Hz screen where my hardware can be properly used.

Last edited by H83; 05-30-2017 at 12:04.
   
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Netherwind
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Default 05-30-2017, 12:00 | posts: 4,875 | Location: Sweden

I would at least get a 1080p/144Hz monitor The fluidity of 100+ fps is so nice.
   
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Default 05-30-2017, 12:22 | posts: 1,676 | Location: Willowbrook ill.

I agree with what you guys say but to spend $800 dollars on a graphics card only to run it on a $100 dollar screen seems kinda silly yes.At least do something like 1/2 the budget of your gpu towards a nice monitor 1 to 8 ratio does not work out to well here lol.

Its like driving a new Ferrari wearing your cheep walmart cloths,sure you can do it but you are not living up to your standards haha.Just messing around a little bit.
   
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Default 05-30-2017, 12:51 | posts: 4,320 | Location: Lebanon

It doesn't seem you have ever tried a 100Hz+ refresh rate. 60Hz VSync locked is...
   
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pegasus1
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Default 05-30-2017, 12:53 | posts: 633 | Location: Essex

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikev190 View Post
What you describe is similar to buying a Ferrari to drive to the local shops each day for a pint of milk.
A completely pointless analogy.
   
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pegasus1
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Default 05-30-2017, 12:55 | posts: 633 | Location: Essex

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Originally Posted by nz3777 View Post

Its like driving a new Ferrari wearing your cheep walmart cloths,sure you can do it but you are not living up to your standards haha.Just messing around a little bit.
Another pointless analogy.
   
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Default 05-30-2017, 12:59 | posts: 10,044

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Originally Posted by pegasus1 View Post
Another pointless analogy.
Your saying a thing doesn't make it true. Great contribution by the way, you're calling other peoples posts pointless while offering nothing yourself and double-posting where you could have posted once.

If the shoe fits and all that.

I can't see anyone forking out for a 1080ti while still using a 1080p 60hz monitor, it's a poor investment. At the very least you should be opting for a 100hz + screen. The argument here is smoothness while locked into 60fps v-sync, well... if smooth is your goal you want higher than a 60hz refresh rate. The only reason anyone would claim otherwise is if they haven't actually used a monitor capable of high refresh.
   
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Default 05-30-2017, 13:14 | posts: 2,864 | Location: Ibaraki, Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasus1 View Post
Another pointless analogy.
What is the point beside owning 1080Ti and trying to stand taller than other people?

If you want to justify your 1080Ti purchase by writing it on your profile, I really feel sorry for you, for your bank account and your relatives.


   
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pegasus1
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Default 05-30-2017, 13:14 | posts: 633 | Location: Essex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkest View Post
Your saying a thing doesn't make it true. Great contribution by the way, you're calling other peoples posts pointless while offering nothing yourself and double-posting where you could have posted once.

If the shoe fits and all that.

I can't see anyone forking out for a 1080ti while still using a 1080p 60hz monitor, it's a poor investment. At the very least you should be opting for a 100hz + screen. The argument here is smoothness while locked into 60fps v-sync, well... if smooth is your goal you want higher than a 60hz refresh rate. The only reason anyone would claim otherwise is if they haven't actually used a monitor capable of high refresh.
They were posted at different times doughnut, if somebody wants to use a 1080Ti at 1080P because they want solid frame rates then its their choice, no need for you and other to be negative about it, as i mentioned early on i knew non Ti owners would be chipping in with comments, same as when any new elite hardware comes out and those that dont have it decide the buyer is wrong.
   
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pegasus1
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Default 05-30-2017, 13:16 | posts: 633 | Location: Essex

Quote:
Originally Posted by sverek View Post
What is the point beside owning 1080Ti and trying to stand taller than other people?

If you want to justify 1080Ti purchase by writing it on your profile, I really feel sorry for you and your relatives.
Cmon, let rip that your 970 is just as fast as a stock 980 when you OC it and anybody who buys a 980 is a mug, you're that guy.
   
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Darkest
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Default 05-30-2017, 13:18 | posts: 10,044

They were posted at different times? What are you talking about, your two posts had a couple of minutes between them. You know how to edit a post, right?

Or do you not know how to multi-quote?

As for someone wanting a 1080ti at 1080p, you're absolutely right that it's their choice. However, the OP brought the topic up on a forum in order to share his point of view. A forum is a place for debate, and while people are welcome to post their opinions people are also well within their rights to respond and disagree.

What does owning a 1080ti have to do with this thread? Are you trying to claim that people aren't allowed to have opinions on things unless they own them? It's a poor stance to take. If you're on about people like Sverek who jumps on anyone who has a better computer than him, you're best off ignoring him. I'm guessing it is envy considering how frequently he does it.

If you can afford the best, what's wrong with getting it? Most people who buy better hardware can do so because they work hard for the privilege. Granted, there was a guy who used to post on here who regularly took out payday loans and got into severe credit card debt in order to upgrade his rig, but I'm guessing (hoping) he's a rarity.

Last edited by Darkest; 05-30-2017 at 13:20.
   
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sverek
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Default 05-30-2017, 13:36 | posts: 2,864 | Location: Ibaraki, Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasus1 View Post
I bet the majority of negative views posted here will be from jealous non Ti owners
I am done here.


   
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Terepin
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Default 05-30-2017, 14:01 | posts: 604 | Location: Košice, Slovakia

OK, you guys who think this is an overkill, why exactly you think that? State your reasons.
   
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