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Loop help
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lillelj
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Default Loop help - 05-04-2017, 21:47 | posts: 1,345 | Location: Devon

Been re-doing my loop. Seem to have run into a problem. I have used this pump previously with no issues. But now I finally finished bending and fitting the pipes, went to test it for leaks and it doesn't seem to have the power to push the water through the system!

So hopefully I have just done something super obviously stupid that you guys can spot, and there isn't an issue with the pump.
It struggles to even get through the first radiator. Even if I turn the pump up to full power.

I have changed the ports inlet/outlet order on the pump top compared to last time. And I have a system bleed connected to the pump top now too. I have a feeling the issue is with the order of connections on the pump top. But I'm pretty tired and need a fresh set of knowledgeable eyes on it.

Thanks

http://imgur.com/a/55N3W

Just for clarity. The sealed port top right is the 'out and the 'In' is the one left of it fed by the res

Last edited by lillelj; 05-04-2017 at 22:14.
   
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Agent-A01
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Default 05-05-2017, 02:17 | posts: 9,392 | Location: USA

So that tubes with big air bubbles, waters not moving at all?
   
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jura11
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Default 05-05-2017, 02:22 | posts: 1,282 | Location: London

Hi there

Assume you tried to run with opened reservoir, I would only think on that as first

Yours pump looks like is D5 which should be OK for such loop although you are using few 90 fittings which can slow flow as well but not to such extreme circumstances

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura
   
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lillelj
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Default 05-05-2017, 07:39 | posts: 1,345 | Location: Devon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent-A01 View Post
So that tubes with big air bubbles, waters not moving at all?
I assume you mean the horizontal one leading off from the GPU. No, the water doesn't get anywhere near as far as that. If I turn the pump up to full power, the furthest it reaches is the cpu. And barely.

Jura. The top was left off initially as I was anticipating topping it up as I let the pump run in short bursts. I tried with in closed as well with no difference.

Do you think that somehow the water going into the bleed port is messing things up? I want to think no. But I'm stumped here
   
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jura11
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Default 05-05-2017, 09:32 | posts: 1,282 | Location: London

Quote:
Originally Posted by lillelj View Post
I assume you mean the horizontal one leading off from the GPU. No, the water doesn't get anywhere near as far as that. If I turn the pump up to full power, the furthest it reaches is the cpu. And barely.

Jura. The top was left off initially as I was anticipating topping it up as I let the pump run in short bursts. I tried with in closed as well with no difference.

Do you think that somehow the water going into the bleed port is messing things up? I want to think no. But I'm stumped here
Hi there

If doesn't reach the CPU block then there is air bubble/lock/pocket

What I used on D5 pumps bottom port for inlet(from reservoir) and top port/outlet(to radiator or water block), inlet is suction port

I don't have right now D5 pump(I'm using EK DDC 3.2 PWM Elite) but have built for friend water loop few weeks back and have used several 90 and 45 and borosilicate glass tubing

In my case I've used rotary cuboid 3 way for drain like is this, its used on or installed on outlet port


 Click to show spoiler



Loop order shouldn't matter, just reservoir must before pump that's it

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura
   
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lillelj
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Default 05-05-2017, 10:34 | posts: 1,345 | Location: Devon

Quote:
Originally Posted by jura11 View Post
Hi there

If doesn't reach the CPU block then there is air bubble/lock/pocket

What I used on D5 pumps bottom port for inlet(from reservoir) and top port/outlet(to radiator or water block), inlet is suction port

I don't have right now D5 pump(I'm using EK DDC 3.2 PWM Elite) but have built for friend water loop few weeks back and have used several 90 and 45 and borosilicate glass tubing

In my case I've used rotary cuboid 3 way for drain like is this, its used on or installed on outlet port


 Click to show spoiler



Loop order shouldn't matter, just reservoir must before pump that's it

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura
An air pocket in the pump itself?

The more I stare at this the more baffling it gets.
It's gotta be something to do with the pump top surely? Even on a low setting it used to absolutely blast water through the loop which wasn't any less restrictive than this one.
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 05-05-2017, 10:49 | posts: 17,538 | Location: 127.0.0.1

I don't have a custom loop, but I would assume an air lock anywhere in the loop could stop the flow throughout the entire loop

Similar to if you nipped part of the loop pipe closed anywhere, the rest of the loop would stop too
   
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jura11
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Default 05-05-2017, 11:09 | posts: 1,282 | Location: London

Quote:
Originally Posted by lillelj View Post
An air pocket in the pump itself?

The more I stare at this the more baffling it gets.
It's gotta be something to do with the pump top surely? Even on a low setting it used to absolutely blast water through the loop which wasn't any less restrictive than this one.
Hi there

Agree its baffling for me too, have look on my loop I'm running 3*GPU blocks and CPU block plus 3 radiators and single DDC pump which is enough for now but still I will need to add one more pump as looks like adding extra radiator I have added extra restriction and flow is compromised

I didn't have any issues with my loop, filling loop has been easy, no problems and leak test I have done in 2 hours and everything has been running after 3 hours with no bubbles etc and no air in loop etc

On friend loop I've used Barrow pump top and no issues as well,his loop has been done in 4 hours as we are done test run with distilled water and then with Mayhems Pastel

I would try do not use Bitspower pump top and you will see if there is issue with pump top or not

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura
   
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anub1s18
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Default 05-05-2017, 11:19 | posts: 69 | Location: Netherlands

i've had a clogged cpu block chocking my flow but otherwise... not certain why this wouldn't work.

as far as pumping power you should have plenty, have about the same cooling (but with 2x240 instead of a 360 and 240)

using a aquacomputer D5 / ek pump top, when i initially built the system one of the tubes leading to the reservoir was only half full cause the flow was so low, it was able to fill up with the pump at 100% but only barely.

after cleaning the cpu block i cant put my pump above 50% (due to a small whoopsy with the reservoir at 50 or above the water starts to turn white now as it's mixing in the air from the top of the reservoir. but it's at least capable of moving the water fast enough to cause that, can now run it at 25% which still seems to be plenty, i've made the layer of water as thick as i can get it and the airbubbles still get within 1cm of the bottom so it's about as fast as it can go before it starts throwing air around.

after about... 2-3 years of use a bunch of black crud got in to my cpu block (gpu block was rough enough for it to pass through).
cleaned it out with a old toothbrush and all was fine.

my system for reference : dropbox link

pump/res/drain when it was still wip : pump/res/drain

ow remembered a noticeable difference between before and after.

is your pump vibrating?

when my cpu block was blocked/chocked i could lightly feel the case's vibration through my desk (which at the time i thought was just a D5 thing as it was my first D5 pump). but after i cleaned the cpu block my pump is a LOT more quiet and there's no more detectable vibrations coming from the case (though it is running 25% instead of 100...)

Last edited by anub1s18; 05-05-2017 at 11:41.
   
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Agent-A01
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Default 05-05-2017, 15:14 | posts: 9,392 | Location: USA

D5 will easily power that loop you have.

As for your water turning white in res, EK has a special foam-like material that you can place into the res to fix that issue.

They mention that happens when you have the inlet and outlet both on bottom.
See their Installation guide on their website.

I also use EK RES but I am using the sides as inlet/outlet.

As for air bubbles, Have you tried just having AC power on and rotating case around to move air bubbles?
   
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lillelj
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Default 05-05-2017, 15:24 | posts: 1,345 | Location: Devon

Okay so I pulled the pump put to test the port combinations. Interesting results actually. And kinda disappointing too.

So I found that having any length of pipe to any of the 'In' ports that isn't part of the... flow if you like , dramatically decreased overall flow speed.

For example a bleed port/pipe attached to one of the spare 'in' ports. Totally ruins the flow speed.when all spare ports are stoppered then flow is good.

On top of that. Using the in and out ports that are right next to each other seems to produce markedly better flow than if you used any of the others on different aspects of the top.

I find that pretty disappointing since I specifically wanted a top with multiple options for in and out directions. To give me more options with the build. Basically for best flow it need to be the ports right next to each other.

I haven't tried it hooked up to my loop yet. Was just testing with a small flexible one. Bit I think I have it sorted now. Just have to ditch the bleed port and just use a stopper and unfortunately find somewhere else for the ball valve to go.

Last edited by lillelj; 05-05-2017 at 15:27.
   
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Agent-A01
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Default 05-05-2017, 15:48 | posts: 9,392 | Location: USA

Pic of the bleed port?

They mentioned not having things recess more than x(maybe 5?) mm into the res for that exact reason
   
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lillelj
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Default 05-05-2017, 16:13 | posts: 1,345 | Location: Devon

http://imgur.com/a/RSuhB

Sry this was all I took.

So in this set up it works fine. But if the out and in are placed in the ports on the same aspect the flow is quite obviously better. I don't have a flow meter, but I left the res quite low so I could see it pouring in. And the difference was obvious.

In this config but with an additional pipe connected to either of the spare 'in' ports. It Basically doesn't work at all. Just trickles in.barely made it up a 8cm pipe.

The original post of mine has a pic you can see the bleed port.

Last edited by lillelj; 05-05-2017 at 16:17.
   
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jura11
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Default 05-05-2017, 17:09 | posts: 1,282 | Location: London

Hi there

Did you consider to use something like I've used 3 way adapter which should work in yours case for drain

Strange that with this top, have used only Barrow D5 pump top on my friend and we are never run to such issue

Flow meter, if you are running Aquaero then I would suggest Aquacomputer MPS 400

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura
   
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anub1s18
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Default 05-10-2017, 15:43 | posts: 69 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent-A01 View Post
D5 will easily power that loop you have.

As for your water turning white in res, EK has a special foam-like material that you can place into the res to fix that issue.

They mention that happens when you have the inlet and outlet both on bottom.
See their Installation guide on their website.

I also use EK RES but I am using the sides as inlet/outlet.

As for air bubbles, Have you tried just having AC power on and rotating case around to move air bubbles?
i've actually got the out at the top of the res and the in at the bottom, the foam is in there but doesn't seem to be enough, as long as i keep the res as topped off as it can be it buffers it enough but i should have installed one of these :

but saving that for when i change the loop or have to do some maintenance to it.

as for the issue the OP is facing maybe just use 1 in and 1 out and install a T fitting on the out?

that's sorta the setup i've got and it seems to be fine.
   
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