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  (#26)
Loophole35
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Default 07-11-2016, 19:15 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by warlord View Post
Hm, I am more interested either on asus Strix version or gigabyte's g1. Can't wait for those.
I've had bad luck with AMD Asus cards. If I were getting one it would be the Nitro+.
   
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  (#27)
The Mac
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Default 07-11-2016, 19:16 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

yeah, im waiting on the nitro myself....
   
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  (#28)
PrMinisterGR
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Default 07-11-2016, 21:23 | posts: 6,767

I saw the numbers of the Doom Vulkan patch. The 480 is within 24% of the 1070. Unless NVIDIA pulls something (and I can't see how, since it seems their cards are 100% with higher level APIs), the 1060 looks more and more like DOA to me.
   
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  (#29)
The Mac
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Default 07-11-2016, 21:40 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

if what the sapphire guy said is true, nvidia got caught with their pants down on the 480. They didnt expect that level of performance.

A bit self-serving really, as sapphire is an AMD exclusive partner.

I was at my local microcenter this weekend picking up a refurb corsair AX power supply (my ax 750 was acting up) and they had a couple AIB 1070s in the lockup case.

I asked if they had any 480s and the guy said no, they sell them out the same day they come in.

He really did try to get me to buy that 1070. lol.

Last edited by The Mac; 07-12-2016 at 01:31.
   
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  (#30)
OnnA
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Default 07-12-2016, 00:59 | posts: 2,865 | Location: HolyWater Village

Guys -> STOP talkin about other Vendors ! Please.... Here about ATI/AMD TEK.
   
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  (#31)
OnnA
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Lightbulb 07-12-2016, 01:02 | posts: 2,865 | Location: HolyWater Village

And i have Proof that Polaris 490 is REAL (Shipment Manifests kinda confirmed this)

We will have until December:
(The xx5 stands for next more polished chip in the same architecture so first is 480 then 485 etc.)

Here 2x480 (480x2?)
RX 490 then RX 495
RX 480 ... 485
RX 470 ... 475 and so on.

 Click to show spoiler



Part 1: AMD launches Polaris-powered Radeon RX 480, 470 & 460 in Australia - Korhan Erenben speaks!

Last edited by OnnA; 07-12-2016 at 01:09.
   
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  (#32)
OnnA
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Talking 07-12-2016, 05:19 | posts: 2,865 | Location: HolyWater Village

I know Prices of New Custom RX 480 !

In Eu:

Sapphire Nitro+ ~269 (249Pounda)
XFX DD Black ~279-289
XFX DD OC ~269
Devil ~299 (254Pounda)

Sapphire and Devil is listed on Overclockers
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pc-co...Page=1&sSort=4

Last edited by OnnA; 07-12-2016 at 05:22.
   
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  (#33)
PrMinisterGR
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Default 07-12-2016, 07:04 | posts: 6,767

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnnA View Post
Guys -> STOP talkin about other Vendors ! Please.... Here about ATI/AMD TEK.
Hey!

I don't believe the "bigger Polaris" theory. The next thing we get is Vega, and it will be big and small Vega.
   
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  (#34)
OnnA
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Talking 07-12-2016, 10:08 | posts: 2,865 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrMinisterGR View Post
Hey!

I don't believe the "bigger Polaris" theory. The next thing we get is Vega, and it will be big and small Vega.
We shall see

But if im correct once again ! You give me STEAM Game for Free.
OK? No matter, it can be 2 game also.
   
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  (#35)
Loophole35
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Default 07-12-2016, 13:59 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnnA View Post
We shall see

But if im correct once again ! You give me STEAM Game for Free.
OK? No matter, it can be 2 game also.
And if you are wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrMinisterGR View Post
I saw the numbers of the Doom Vulkan patch. The 480 is within 24% of the 1070. Unless NVIDIA pulls something (and I can't see how, since it seems their cards are 100% with higher level APIs), the 1060 looks more and more like DOA to me.
Your not going to particularly like what I'm about to say but read it with an open mind.

This really just goes to show how bad AMD's drivers are in general. Once the driver is minimized by an API like DX12 or Vulcan the cards start performing where they theoretical should in conjunction to there Tflop performance.

Last edited by Loophole35; 07-12-2016 at 14:07.
   
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  (#36)
The Mac
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Default 07-12-2016, 14:22 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

or it goes to show you how good AMDs hardware is.

depends on how you look at it.

Its not as simple as you make it out to be.

IPC, pipeline length, CPU core usage, etc all make a difference.

Nvidia's longer pipeline for example is more efficient in cpu thread bound situations which is why they have better performance under dx9-11.

AMDs shorter pipline is more efficient with multiple threads, giving them the advantage in DX12/mantle/vulcan

This is just one example there are others.

Last edited by The Mac; 07-12-2016 at 14:29.
   
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  (#37)
Loophole35
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Default 07-12-2016, 14:37 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
or it goes to show you how good AMDs hardware is.

depends on how you look at it.
I never said AMD's hardware was bad. My critiques of AMD have always been at the driver team and the PR department. On the hardware side of things it's astounding what AMD is producing with a fraction of the R&D budget of the competitors.
   
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  (#38)
The Mac
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Default 07-12-2016, 14:49 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

i disagree, it mostly comes down to architectural differences.

one is better at single threaded performance, the other at multi-threaded performance.

You cant write drivers to overcome architectural limitations.
   
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  (#39)
Loophole35
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Default 07-12-2016, 15:25 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
i disagree, it mostly comes down to architectural differences.

one is better at single threaded performance, the other at multi-threaded performance.

You cant write drivers to overcome architectural limitations.
But the DX11 performance difference contradicts what you say. DX11 is multi-threaded. Unless you are talking about something completely different like A-Sync in which case it does not seem to make that big of a difference in games as of yet.
   
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The Mac
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Default 07-12-2016, 15:37 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

absolutely not.

DX11 in no way shape or form is multithreaded in any way that matters.

no matter how many worker threads you have there, all the informations must be gathered into a SINGLE BATCH SUBMISSION THREAD TO THE GPU

dx12/mantle/vulcan uses asynchronous multi-thread submission. This where AMDs shorter pipeline has the advantage.

Last edited by The Mac; 07-12-2016 at 15:46.
   
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  (#41)
Loophole35
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Default 07-12-2016, 15:55 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
absolutely not.

DX11 in no way shape or form is multithreaded in any way that matters.

no matter how many worker threads you have there, all the informations must be gathered into a SINGLE BATCH SUBMISSION THREAD TO THE GPU

dx12/mantle/vulcan uses asynchronous multi-thread submission. This where AMDs shorter pipeline has the advantage.
I see what you are saying but AMD is just gaining ground. Barring bugs or glitches Nvidia is not loosing performance in DX12.

Look here.


Top card 9Tflop
Fury X 8.6 Tflop
TX 7Tflop
1070 6.5
980Ti 6.4
fury 7.2 ? this one makes no sense


This is what I am saying.
   
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  (#42)
The Mac
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:05 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

the 480 IS NOT a 1440p card, why people insist on benchmarking that res is beyond me. Some games, obviously it will be fine for 1440p, but its still not a 1440p card.

of course they are going to gain ground, the api is new, drivers are going to improve on iteration.

Theoretically so should nvidia provided they don't hit a performance wall.

why would they lose performance?

not sure what you are getting at here.

dont forget AMD has a lot more experience in low level APIs than nvidia does, so it stands to reason they are going to get early performance increase leads.

TFLOP performance doesn't really have a direct correlation to game performance. It depends on the specific game's workload types. General reletivistic performance, sure, but not specific games.

I guess im not sure what you are getting at in your last post.

Last edited by The Mac; 07-12-2016 at 16:13.
   
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  (#43)
Loophole35
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:13 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
the 480 IS NOT a 1440p card, why people insist on benchmarking that res is beyond me. Some games, obviously it will be fine for 1440p, but its still not a 1440p card.

of course they are going to gain ground, the api is new, drivers are going to improve on iteration.

Theoretically so should nvidia provided they don't hit a performance wall.

why would they lose performance?

not sure what you are getting at here.

dont forget AMD has a lot more experience in low level APIs than nvidia does, so it stands to reason they are going to get early performance increase leads.

I guess im not sure what you are getting at in your last post.
I use 1440 in that case to cause the bottleneck to be a GPU in all situations. Not because I think the 480 is a QHD card (though AMD claims it is).

If you do not see the pattern in that bench I have nothing for you.
   
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The Mac
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:14 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

i see a single game where you are making the point that it appears the fury is underperforming based on its stated TFLOP level. The fury-x certainly isnt underperforming.

is that the case for all games?

of course not.

Workload types matter. TFLOP is compute performance. there are other factors to consider.

Last edited by The Mac; 07-12-2016 at 16:18.
   
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Loophole35
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:23 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
i see a single game where you are making the point that it appears the fury is underperforming based on its stated TFLOP level. The fury-x certainly isnt underperforming.

is that the case for all games?

of course not.

Workload types matter. TFLOP is compute performance. there are other factors to consider.
I used that game as it seems to be the most un-bias game


*I don't believe this has the latest patch with A-sync


I realize there are other factors pixel fill rate and memory bandwidth. But Tflop is a good general performance figure.
   
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The Mac
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:36 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

seems fine in hitman, tomb raider is known to have issues with AMD (the rumor is DX12 is just a wrapper like talos)

like i said though, different games, different workloads.

Last edited by The Mac; 07-12-2016 at 16:41.
   
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  (#47)
Loophole35
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:43 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
seems fine in hitman, tomb raider is known to have issues with AMD (the rumor is DX12 is just a wrapper like talos)
Warhammer and Hitman are wrappers too iirc.

AoS is the only built ground up DX12 bench I know of. Soon we will have a new futuremark bench.

Actually looking at Hitman that may have shown my point better.
   
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The Mac
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:48 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

its really too early to make these kinds of statements definitively. We need more true dx12/vulcan games.

my original point was that architectural differences play a big part in dx11 versus dx12 performance.

Fury pro weirdness aside.
   
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  (#49)
Loophole35
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:53 | posts: 8,155 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
its really too early to make these kinds of statements definitively. We need more true dx12/vulcan games.

my original point was that architectural differences play a big part in dx11 versus dx12 performance.

Fury pro weirdness aside.
I agree with that. I'm ready to see some not only full DX12/Vulcan games. I'm also ready for fully compatible DX12 cards.
   
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  (#50)
The Mac
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Default 07-12-2016, 16:55 | posts: 4,407 | Location: USA

fairly sure rx480 is fully 12_1 compliant.
   
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