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Ghosty
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Default 12-23-2014, 17:04 | posts: 4,876

Quote:
Originally Posted by anxious_f0x View Post
Probably because the Jaguar cores in the APU used in the PS4 wouldn't really be powerful enough to be useful for gaming on windows, which means they would need to go with one of their more powerful architectures. With the space the GPU occupies on the PS4's APU, using Piledriver cores wouldn't be possible as they simply wouldn't fit on the chip, then there's the added heat that would come with the more powerful cpu cores.

Technology isn't quite there yet, but there's no doubt in my mind that we'll see some decent APUs in the future.
It would be interesting to see what heat is generated by the PS4 with the PSU integrated, and on full load. A warning does appear if the console gets too hot, so it must need good ventilation.
   
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Default 12-23-2014, 17:19 | posts: 3

@anxious_f0x i am not completely agree with that. Firstly, because xone use a custom windows 8 os (ps4 freebsd os).
Futhermore, windows require only one core at ~2ghz to work correctly.So the seven cores remaining could be dedicate to gaming.
For heat, i would said that computer case offer efficient cooling (ps4/xone ~= laptop)

Quote:
With the space the GPU occupies on the PS4's APU, using Piledriver cores wouldn't be possible as they simply wouldn't fit on the chip, then there's the added heat that would come with the more powerful cpu cores.
what about a cut down version with four cpu cores?
   
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Default 12-23-2014, 17:56 | posts: 9,279 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

I think you may be missing the point. I believe what he is trying to get at is that the processors used in gaming consoles are designed differently from those we use in our computers, in that they're basically designed for a single purpose. i.e. good when it comes to games, not so good when it comes to basic stuff. Look at the PS3 for example. You could install Linux on the earlier ones.... but it ran fairly slowly considering the simplicity of the UI in most cases. You could boot Windows XP within Linux, but that was apparently DREADFULLY slow.
   
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Default 12-23-2014, 18:29 | posts: 4,876

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
I think you may be missing the point. I believe what he is trying to get at is that the processors used in gaming consoles are designed differently from those we use in our computers, in that they're basically designed for a single purpose. i.e. good when it comes to games, not so good when it comes to basic stuff. Look at the PS3 for example. You could install Linux on the earlier ones.... but it ran fairly slowly considering the simplicity of the UI in most cases. You could boot Windows XP within Linux, but that was apparently DREADFULLY slow.
This is why I fail to understand why the specs for both consoles were bashed by almost every PC gamer. These are not Windows multimedia machines. Consoles are designed only for gaming and nothing else. Everything is different.
   
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DeepSide
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Default 12-23-2014, 19:05 | posts: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
I believe what he is trying to get at is that the processors used in gaming consoles are designed differently from those we use in our computers, in that they're basically designed for a single purpose.
Nop, It is true for ps3 but not for ps4. Ps3 use ppc instruction (one PPE) and spu instruction (seven spe + one disabled by default), so in order to run windows xp, ps3 need to emulate x86 architecture that's why it is slow.
Moreover, 256Mb is not enough...
Ps4 cpu cores use x86-64 instruction set like most computers.
   
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SerotoNiN
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Default 12-23-2014, 20:56 | posts: 2,056 | Location: Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosty View Post
This is why I fail to understand why the specs for both consoles were bashed by almost every PC gamer. These are not Windows multimedia machines. Consoles are designed only for gaming and nothing else. Everything is different.
Half of it is ignorance, the other half is unwilling to admit there's a superior machine for half the price. So it needs to be bashed for anything that looks like a short coming to justify the thousands spent on sli rigs that play 3rd party titles in a higher resolution.

Consoles are one trick ponies. The hardware is set to do one instance of things. It's not bogged down by the horrific amount of resources Windows takes up, it has an eighth of the services Windows uses. The cpu is "weak" in terms of an actual computer running Windows 8.1 - it is not weak for a console that it has only a handful of purposes for. The console is held back much less and made to be closer to metal.

This is something even DX12 won't be able to fix. Windows is a resource hog. No API will ever change that. It will speed things up and help out in certain instances but it will never stop it. That's where consoles are much better, they're built more efficiently to use the hardware in them specifically for certain things, it's all they can do, but they do them well.

People that judge a console on it's specs have no understanding of how the hardware is used.
   
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Redemption80
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Default 12-23-2014, 21:11 | posts: 17,784 | Location: Glasgow

True, a PC operating system is built to be a resource hog as it has to do pretty much everything.
It's why the statement that consoles only uses 6 cores for games annoys me, people seem to forget the OS overhead on PC games.

I do think they are underpowered, but the other option of making them more expensive is a worse option.
   
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Default 12-24-2014, 00:07 | posts: 2,056 | Location: Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redemption80 View Post
True, a PC operating system is built to be a resource hog as it has to do pretty much everything.
It's why the statement that consoles only uses 6 cores for games annoys me, people seem to forget the OS overhead on PC games.

I do think they are underpowered, but the other option of making them more expensive is a worse option.
I used to think back in the late 90's/early 00's that Microsoft would make a gaming OS that had less resources and would help push PC gaming. In a way they did, but they called it Xbox and made it a console. Which abandoned the PC market. Sigh.

I still think a niche OS like that would sell. But it would have a ton of limitations to it. Kind of like SteamOS.
   
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anxious_f0x
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Default 12-24-2014, 01:11 | posts: 1,095 | Location: England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosty View Post
It would be interesting to see what heat is generated by the PS4 with the PSU integrated, and on full load. A warning does appear if the console gets too hot, so it must need good ventilation.
Check out these thermal images, does a good job of keeping itself fairly cool.

http://www.planetextech.com/profiles...thermal-images

@DeepSide Windows may physically run on one core at 2GHz but I doubt it would be a pleasant experience and you certainly wouldn't want to play games on it. PC games require a lot of performance per core because of the way DX11 manages multiple cores, one dedicated logic thread with several smaller worker threads, if that logic thread gets bogged down it bottlenecks the entire system.

Jaguar cores were designed to be used in netbooks and other mobile devices, the only reason the PS4 and Xbox One get away with using them for games is because the OS and graphics API are lightweight and don't require huge amounts of power to run them smoothly.

The Kaveri APUs already use the Steamroller architecture which replaced piledriver and brought with it many improvements but they're still too large to work along side a decent size GPU.

The main limiting factor with the current PC APU performance in games is memory bandwidth.
An 8 core APU on a 14nm manufacring process with a huge GPU and DDR4 memory will probably be the next big step in APU performance.

AMD A10-7800 APU.


PS4 APU.


Both 28nm process but just look at the difference in CPU core size...

Last edited by anxious_f0x; 12-24-2014 at 01:48.
   
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Fender178
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Default 12-24-2014, 01:47 | posts: 3,273 | Location: Pennsylvania

To me I see a console system like a laptop it is not as powerful as a desktop computer as far as hardware goes but it can do similar things as a desktop computer such as gaming but in a limited form. Also console systems can also stream media services such as Netflix. Also to me consoles will always be behind PCs in terms of hardware because the console developers have to keep costs down so the user can afford the bloody system.
   
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Default 12-24-2014, 09:25 | posts: 26,550 | Location: Netherlands

PlayStation™Now Game Streaming Service Coming To Samsung Smart TVs In 2015
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300013872.html
   
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SerotoNiN
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Default 12-24-2014, 16:26 | posts: 2,056 | Location: Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLightning View Post
PlayStation™Now Game Streaming Service Coming To Samsung Smart TVs In 2015
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300013872.html
Why wouldn't Sony bring this to Sony smart tv's first?
   
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Default 12-24-2014, 18:10 | posts: 8,414 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerotoNiN View Post
Why wouldn't Sony bring this to Sony smart tv's first?
It's already on the Sony bravia's.
   
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Default 01-01-2015, 22:21 | posts: 1,095 | Location: England

A Holiday Thank You from Sony.

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2015/...50101_38165397
   
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Mr.Bigtime
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Default 01-02-2015, 09:17 | posts: 20,718 | Location: Turkey

bought SECOND SON deluxe edition. name is not deluxe but what was it?


i see there is a prologue game too...hmm..worth? maybe first buy it then play this hu?
   
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Ghosty
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Default 01-02-2015, 09:48 | posts: 4,876

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Originally Posted by Mr.Bigtime View Post
bought SECOND SON deluxe edition. name is not deluxe but what was it?


i see there is a prologue game too...hmm..worth? maybe first buy it then play this hu?
First Light is free for PS+ members this month. It is best that you complete Second Son first, as it will give you a better understanding of what is happening.
   
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Mr.Bigtime
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Default 01-02-2015, 09:55 | posts: 20,718 | Location: Turkey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosty View Post
First Light is free for PS+ members this month. It is best that you complete Second Son first, as it will give you a better understanding of what is happening.
thank u very much. i just checked last night and it was not free but let me see today. great if it is.
   
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Ghosty
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Default 01-02-2015, 10:57 | posts: 4,876

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bigtime View Post
thank u very much. i just checked last night and it was not free but let me see today. great if it is.
Check the PSN store Wednesday next week.






Last edited by Ghosty; 01-02-2015 at 11:08.
   
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Loophole35
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Default 01-02-2015, 13:22 | posts: 8,414 | Location: FLA,USA

InFamous: Second Son is still the best game of this generation so far.
   
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Default 01-02-2015, 14:24 | posts: 3,725 | Location: England

http://n4g.com/news/1648041/ps4-excl...ailer-released

ps4 2015 showreel
   
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SerotoNiN
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Default 01-02-2015, 18:00 | posts: 2,056 | Location: Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
InFamous: Second Son is still the best game of this generation so far.
This. I don't know why it was ignored on so many "best next-gen" games lists of 2014. The game looks better than anything on the market, it's fun to play, the voice acting is solid and it has replay value with different decision making.

Easily GOTY for me.
   
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Ghosty
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Default 01-02-2015, 18:32 | posts: 4,876

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerotoNiN View Post
This. I don't know why it was ignored on so many "best next-gen" games lists of 2014. The game looks better than anything on the market, it's fun to play, the voice acting is solid and it has replay value with different decision making.

Easily GOTY for me.
I agree with this. One of the best games on the PS4 at the moment. Nothing else really comes close in terms of how it looks and plays.
   
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ElementalDragon
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Default 01-02-2015, 18:38 | posts: 9,279 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerotoNiN View Post
This. I don't know why it was ignored on so many "best next-gen" games lists of 2014. The game looks better than anything on the market, it's fun to play, the voice acting is solid and it has replay value with different decision making.

Easily GOTY for me.
I never really found there to be much replay value with ANY Infamous title. "Different decision making"? You can only go one of two ways either way you play through the game.... either "Good" choices or "Bad" choices.
   
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eclap
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Default 01-03-2015, 00:41 | posts: 31,511 | Location: Hampshire, UK

InFamous: Second Son is easily my GOTY 2014 across all platforms. By far. Such an awesome, fresh, well produced game. Loved every second of it.
   
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Default 01-03-2015, 11:56 | posts: 7,480 | Location: Canada, Quebec

PS Plus is such great value. Found myself playing on the PS4 much more in the past few months.
   
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