Guru3D.com Forums

Go Back   Guru3D.com Forums > Hardware > Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats
Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats A cracking SoundBlaster ? Got new Speakers ? Be heard in here !



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old
  (#1226)
mikeysg
Maha Guru
 
mikeysg's Avatar
 
Videocard: 2x Sapp R9 290X CF H20
Processor: i7 3960X + Corsair H100
Mainboard: Asus Rampage IV Extreme
Memory: 4x 4GB Corsair DP 2133mhz
Soundcard: Oppo HA-1 + KRK Rokit5 G3
PSU: Seasonic X-1250
Default 12-20-2016, 01:41 | posts: 2,143 | Location: Babylon 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by gridiron whirlw View Post
How do you like your modded TR50 ?

I have listened exclusively to my Omni, ever since I received it....I guess it is officially called the Ori now....anyway...one fun headphone.
I'm liking it a lot! Warm'ish yet detailed, nice tight bass.....what's not to like?! Now chilling to 'The Best of The Commitments' as I type this message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenClaymore View Post
I heard people talking about the build quality of the R70x being poor, how is yours holding up so far.
I find nothing bad about it, perhaps some were expecting all metal build quality like the AD1k/AD2k series. The combo of plastic and metal (like the AD700X) seems solid enough, plus the metal heqadband offers a nice clamp force that holds the cups firmly over your ears. BTW, I believe I've found my bedside combo in the V20 and R70x combo, I dunno, they sound really good together (to me anyway).
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#1227)
ExoriaX
Master Guru
 
ExoriaX's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC
Processor: AMD FX 8320E
Mainboard: ASRock N68C-GS4 FX
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaw 16GB 1600
Soundcard: Valhalla 2/Bifrost+HD700
PSU: Corsair CX600
Default 01-11-2017, 00:33 | posts: 332 | Location: Texas, USA

Hello everyone, it's my first time posting in this section.

I heard my friend's HD 700 with Modi/Magni. I was so addicted and decided to go into audiophile. I bought Sennheiser HD 700 along with Schiit Valhalla 2 AMP and Bifrost Multibit DAC. >EARGASM<

One thing that I noticed, the treble seems less than what I heard from my friend's.

Last edited by ExoriaX; 01-11-2017 at 00:37.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1228)
mezball
Master Guru
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX1070 FTW ACX 3.0
Processor: 3770K Delid @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard: AsRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3
Memory: 16Gb G.Skill 2133
Soundcard: SBz/Klipsch 5.1/AD700X
PSU: eVga SuperNova G3 1000w
Default 01-11-2017, 04:24 | posts: 483 | Location: Albany, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoriaX View Post
Hello everyone, it's my first time posting in this section.

I heard my friend's HD 700 with Modi/Magni. I was so addicted and decided to go into audiophile. I bought Sennheiser HD 700 along with Schiit Valhalla 2 AMP and Bifrost Multibit DAC. >EARGASM<

One thing that I noticed, the treble seems less than what I heard from my friend's.
That is because your friend's amp is solid state, and your's is an tube amp. Tube amps for the most part are warmer sounding (not as bright) than solid state.

Last edited by mezball; 01-11-2017 at 09:54.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1229)
Mufflore
Ancient Guru
 
Mufflore's Avatar
 
Videocard: 1080ti @2GHz silent!
Processor: 6700K @4.6GHz
Mainboard: Maximus VIII Hero
Memory: 16GB LPX 3000 @3600
Soundcard: Oppo 205, TL+Ribbon spks
PSU: Corsair AX750
Default 01-11-2017, 08:58 | posts: 10,116 | Location: United states of Kingdom

You can try tube rolling, find a brighter tube.
You might end up with the better solution.
But choose wisely, read up!
   
Reply With Quote
 
Old
  (#1230)
ExoriaX
Master Guru
 
ExoriaX's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC
Processor: AMD FX 8320E
Mainboard: ASRock N68C-GS4 FX
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaw 16GB 1600
Soundcard: Valhalla 2/Bifrost+HD700
PSU: Corsair CX600
Default 01-11-2017, 20:13 | posts: 332 | Location: Texas, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by mezball View Post
That is because your friend's amp is solid state, and your's is an tube amp. Tube amps for the most part are warmer sounding (not as bright) than solid state.
Ah, good to know! Do you think a solid state is better than tube or the vice versa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
You can try tube rolling, find a brighter tube.
You might end up with the better solution.
But choose wisely, read up!
By rolling you mean use different tubes or spin it around? If spin it around, I don't know if that's possible since the tube socket has 1 or 2 holes covered so I won't be able to spin it around.

Sorry for the dumb question. I am still new to this system. :x
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1231)
GenClaymore
Ancient Guru
 
GenClaymore's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX 1080 FE @ 2100/5556
Processor: I7 3930k @ 4.3ghz
Mainboard: Asus X79 Sabertooth
Memory: G-skill 4x4GB DDR3-1600
Soundcard: Jotunheim BAL>JBL305/R70x
PSU: Cosair RM850
Default 01-11-2017, 23:17 | posts: 5,894 | Location: Southfield,MI

He means by swapping the tube with another tube that is compatible with the amp to change the sound signature of the amp.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1232)
mezball
Master Guru
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX1070 FTW ACX 3.0
Processor: 3770K Delid @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard: AsRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3
Memory: 16Gb G.Skill 2133
Soundcard: SBz/Klipsch 5.1/AD700X
PSU: eVga SuperNova G3 1000w
Default 01-11-2017, 23:29 | posts: 483 | Location: Albany, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoriaX View Post
Ah, good to know! Do you think a solid state is better than tube or the vice versa?


By rolling you mean use different tubes or spin it around? If spin it around, I don't know if that's possible since the tube socket has 1 or 2 holes covered so I won't be able to spin it around.

Sorry for the dumb question. I am still new to this system. :x
There are pros and cons to both. It is dependent on what gear you have, and which sound preference you like. I personally prefer solid state sound.

As for tube rolling, that is just trying different tubes.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1233)
Mufflore
Ancient Guru
 
Mufflore's Avatar
 
Videocard: 1080ti @2GHz silent!
Processor: 6700K @4.6GHz
Mainboard: Maximus VIII Hero
Memory: 16GB LPX 3000 @3600
Soundcard: Oppo 205, TL+Ribbon spks
PSU: Corsair AX750
Default 01-12-2017, 00:12 | posts: 10,116 | Location: United states of Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoriaX View Post
By rolling you mean use different tubes or spin it around? If spin it around, I don't know if that's possible since the tube socket has 1 or 2 holes covered so I won't be able to spin it around.

Sorry for the dumb question. I am still new to this system. :x
Hehe.
As Genclaymore and Mezball said, try different tubes. (I did say that in my op "find a brighter tube")

Last edited by Mufflore; 01-12-2017 at 00:14.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1234)
ExoriaX
Master Guru
 
ExoriaX's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC
Processor: AMD FX 8320E
Mainboard: ASRock N68C-GS4 FX
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaw 16GB 1600
Soundcard: Valhalla 2/Bifrost+HD700
PSU: Corsair CX600
Default 01-12-2017, 20:16 | posts: 332 | Location: Texas, USA

Where would I find other tubes that is compatibility with Valhalla 2?

Also, I am thinking about to buy Asgard 2 from Schiit which looks like a solid state AMP. I would like to try switching between and see which I like the most. I am not sure if that's good idea or just buy tubes.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1235)
Mufflore
Ancient Guru
 
Mufflore's Avatar
 
Videocard: 1080ti @2GHz silent!
Processor: 6700K @4.6GHz
Mainboard: Maximus VIII Hero
Memory: 16GB LPX 3000 @3600
Soundcard: Oppo 205, TL+Ribbon spks
PSU: Corsair AX750
Default 01-12-2017, 23:00 | posts: 10,116 | Location: United states of Kingdom

Internet is pretty handy
ie
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/..._tube_rolling/

Although according to this
http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org...000.399/page-2
Quote:
The Valhalla 2 has a softer, more graceful overall presentation
The Valhalla 2 is laid back so it may not be for you.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1236)
ExoriaX
Master Guru
 
ExoriaX's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC
Processor: AMD FX 8320E
Mainboard: ASRock N68C-GS4 FX
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaw 16GB 1600
Soundcard: Valhalla 2/Bifrost+HD700
PSU: Corsair CX600
Default 01-13-2017, 23:02 | posts: 332 | Location: Texas, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
Internet is pretty handy
ie
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/..._tube_rolling/

Although according to this
http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org...000.399/page-2

The Valhalla 2 is laid back so it may not be for you.
Then it might be good idea for me to buy Asgard 2 and compare right?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1237)
Mufflore
Ancient Guru
 
Mufflore's Avatar
 
Videocard: 1080ti @2GHz silent!
Processor: 6700K @4.6GHz
Mainboard: Maximus VIII Hero
Memory: 16GB LPX 3000 @3600
Soundcard: Oppo 205, TL+Ribbon spks
PSU: Corsair AX750
Default 01-14-2017, 00:08 | posts: 10,116 | Location: United states of Kingdom

Imo the more experience the better, especially when making a decision about something you could keep for a very long time and something that generates strong feelings when in use.
I do not recommend making quick decisions just to get them over and done with when it comes to audio as you may feel compelled to keep something that isnt easy to return should it not turn out right.
If trying it doesnt mean you will feel compelled to keep it (other than for if you like it), go ahead.

I strongly recommend reading audio forums to see what is available and to get links to products worth reading about.
This is a great place to start.
http://www.head-fi.org/f/

Be sure to read other forums for a broader view to avoid being confined to favourite groups of products, or in case they arent aware of something else worth a look.
It is true that some are better matches together than others.
But its what you like that matters most, others opinions are just that.

For example I have an older friend who is even more into hifi than me but he doesnt like the sound of my system because he prefers the sound of soft dome tweeters. He collects older gear but uses some new stuff.
My setup uses ribbon tweeters and is extremely detailed but not clinically so.
My other friends find it nice to listen to but it clearly isnt for everyone (pun intended :p).

Last edited by Mufflore; 01-14-2017 at 00:11.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1238)
ExoriaX
Master Guru
 
ExoriaX's Avatar
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC
Processor: AMD FX 8320E
Mainboard: ASRock N68C-GS4 FX
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaw 16GB 1600
Soundcard: Valhalla 2/Bifrost+HD700
PSU: Corsair CX600
Default 01-14-2017, 00:57 | posts: 332 | Location: Texas, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post
Imo the more experience the better, especially when making a decision about something you could keep for a very long time and something that generates strong feelings when in use.
I do not recommend making quick decisions just to get them over and done with when it comes to audio as you may feel compelled to keep something that isnt easy to return should it not turn out right.
If trying it doesnt mean you will feel compelled to keep it (other than for if you like it), go ahead.

I strongly recommend reading audio forums to see what is available and to get links to products worth reading about.
This is a great place to start.
http://www.head-fi.org/f/

Be sure to read other forums for a broader view to avoid being confined to favourite groups of products, or in case they arent aware of something else worth a look.
It is true that some are better matches together than others.
But its what you like that matters most, others opinions are just that.

For example I have an older friend who is even more into hifi than me but he doesnt like the sound of my system because he prefers the sound of soft dome tweeters. He collects older gear but uses some new stuff.
My setup uses ribbon tweeters and is extremely detailed but not clinically so.
My other friends find it nice to listen to but it clearly isnt for everyone (pun intended :p).
I find it difficult to decide because to find which I like, I have to hear them myself. Many AMPs are not available for test on shelf.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1239)
Mufflore
Ancient Guru
 
Mufflore's Avatar
 
Videocard: 1080ti @2GHz silent!
Processor: 6700K @4.6GHz
Mainboard: Maximus VIII Hero
Memory: 16GB LPX 3000 @3600
Soundcard: Oppo 205, TL+Ribbon spks
PSU: Corsair AX750
Default 01-14-2017, 01:32 | posts: 10,116 | Location: United states of Kingdom

Same problem most people have with choosing hifi.
Which is why its advisable to educate yourself as best as poss.
At some point you will come across information that will compare to something you have heard.
Once you know the range of what all things sound like and whats available, you have an idea of what might suit you best.

Your choice.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1240)
mikeysg
Maha Guru
 
mikeysg's Avatar
 
Videocard: 2x Sapp R9 290X CF H20
Processor: i7 3960X + Corsair H100
Mainboard: Asus Rampage IV Extreme
Memory: 4x 4GB Corsair DP 2133mhz
Soundcard: Oppo HA-1 + KRK Rokit5 G3
PSU: Seasonic X-1250
Default 01-14-2017, 03:43 | posts: 2,143 | Location: Babylon 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoriaX View Post
Where would I find other tubes that is compatibility with Valhalla 2?

Also, I am thinking about to buy Asgard 2 from Schiit which looks like a solid state AMP. I would like to try switching between and see which I like the most. I am not sure if that's good idea or just buy tubes.
Really depends on you and your budget, as well as your sound signature preference. I had a Schiit Lyr, ran it with stock tubes for a while....then decided to try a couple of other tubes, bought two pairs: a Telefunken and an Amperex pair. There is a difference I must admit....I love listening to female vocals, and on a fave track with the stock tubes, I'd noticed a harshness/graininess in her voice. With the Amperex, that graininess was smoothed out....surprised the heck outta me for sure.

My present setups - Oppo HA-1, Gustard X12/H10 stack, Fostex HP-A4 - are basically solid state, so I guess I tilt more towards the brighter SS sound. The Lyr sounded real good, but I dunno, perhaps warm'ish sound isn't for me. Oddly enough, I have a Tube Amp BL-2 which is a portable unit, but packs so much power, I use it as a desktop amp and though it's a tube amp (similar to Schiit Vali v1) it sounds more like a SS amp in that it doesn't seem to add warmth to the sound.

I've tried tubes and have found that I prefer SS, I guess it's really up to you to find out which you prefer....
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1241)
gridiron whirlw
Ancient Guru
 
gridiron whirlw's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX 570 SLI
Processor: Intel i5-2500K
Mainboard: Asus P8Z68-V Pro/Gen 3
Memory: 8GB G-Skill DDR 3 1600
Soundcard: MAD Ear+HD & Grado RS1i
PSU: Corsair 850 Watt
Default 01-15-2017, 16:18 | posts: 3,772 | Location: Ohio

In general, SS is faster and a bit brighter in the treble, usually a nice black back round. Less hassle than tubes. No warm up time ect.

In general, tubes are more romantic or warm, a bit of distortion and holographic sound...not as bright a treble, can usually listen to for hours on end with no fatigue. Depending on what kind of topology the amp is built with, it may have a slight bit of hum...usually only audible when no music is playing.

Each have their pros and cons...for me tubes makes my music far more engaging and i like to change the sound a bit now and then.

I mainly just listen to the blues...which respond to tubes really well.

Hope this helps...just a preference really....as always YMMV....different ears and gears.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1242)
signex
Ancient Guru
 
signex's Avatar
 
Videocard: Asus RX460 4GB Unlocked
Processor: Intel Pentium G4560
Mainboard: MSI H110M Pro-VD
Memory: 8GB Crucial DDR4 2133mhz
Soundcard: Onboard
PSU: EVGA 430W
Default 01-19-2017, 14:54 | posts: 8,136 | Location: Netherlands

Question, i'm thinking of buying a second subwoofer, same model as it's cheap.

How do i hook it up to my receiver wich is 5.1? the sub has both LFE and L+R inputs, could i hook up the second subwoofer to it's L+R input or does it need to go somehow into the receiver?

EDIT: So i heard about this daisy chain method, how do i do this and how many cables are needed?

This is the back of my subwoofer: https://ic.tweakimg.net/camo/8046f90...d-56443340.jpg

Last edited by signex; 01-19-2017 at 15:03.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1243)
mezball
Master Guru
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX1070 FTW ACX 3.0
Processor: 3770K Delid @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard: AsRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3
Memory: 16Gb G.Skill 2133
Soundcard: SBz/Klipsch 5.1/AD700X
PSU: eVga SuperNova G3 1000w
Default 01-19-2017, 20:35 | posts: 483 | Location: Albany, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by signex View Post
Question, i'm thinking of buying a second subwoofer, same model as it's cheap.

How do i hook it up to my receiver wich is 5.1? the sub has both LFE and L+R inputs, could i hook up the second subwoofer to it's L+R input or does it need to go somehow into the receiver?

EDIT: So i heard about this daisy chain method, how do i do this and how many cables are needed?

This is the back of my subwoofer: https://ic.tweakimg.net/camo/8046f90...d-56443340.jpg
Just split the LFE output from receiver into two, using an Y-adapter like this : https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-sp.../dp/B000GUSQJG
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1244)
signex
Ancient Guru
 
signex's Avatar
 
Videocard: Asus RX460 4GB Unlocked
Processor: Intel Pentium G4560
Mainboard: MSI H110M Pro-VD
Memory: 8GB Crucial DDR4 2133mhz
Soundcard: Onboard
PSU: EVGA 430W
Default 01-19-2017, 21:06 | posts: 8,136 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by mezball View Post
Just split the LFE output from receiver into two, using an Y-adapter like this : https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-sp.../dp/B000GUSQJG
Gotcha, cheers i'll try that if i get the second sub.

EDIT: Would this work too? https://image.allekabels.nl/image/17...er-plastic.jpg

It's only 75 cents.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1245)
mezball
Master Guru
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX1070 FTW ACX 3.0
Processor: 3770K Delid @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard: AsRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3
Memory: 16Gb G.Skill 2133
Soundcard: SBz/Klipsch 5.1/AD700X
PSU: eVga SuperNova G3 1000w
Default 01-20-2017, 14:06 | posts: 483 | Location: Albany, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by signex View Post
Gotcha, cheers i'll try that if i get the second sub.

EDIT: Would this work too? https://image.allekabels.nl/image/17...er-plastic.jpg

It's only 75 cents.

Yes.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1246)
signex
Ancient Guru
 
signex's Avatar
 
Videocard: Asus RX460 4GB Unlocked
Processor: Intel Pentium G4560
Mainboard: MSI H110M Pro-VD
Memory: 8GB Crucial DDR4 2133mhz
Soundcard: Onboard
PSU: EVGA 430W
Default 01-20-2017, 14:40 | posts: 8,136 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by mezball View Post
Yes.
Ok bought the sub and going to order that splitter.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1247)
mezball
Master Guru
 
Videocard: EVGA GTX1070 FTW ACX 3.0
Processor: 3770K Delid @ 4.5Ghz
Mainboard: AsRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3
Memory: 16Gb G.Skill 2133
Soundcard: SBz/Klipsch 5.1/AD700X
PSU: eVga SuperNova G3 1000w
Default 01-27-2017, 00:36 | posts: 483 | Location: Albany, NY

OMG! SVS sound demo with their SB-16 Ultra powered subwoofer. The demo is done with an single sealed sub in a rather large room, they show the size of the room between the first two demos. First 27 minutes mainly discussions and marketing. First demo around 27 minute in, 2nd about 40 minute, and last 47 min. mark.

Video demo is near bottom of the page linked, scroll down.

https://www.svsound.com/pages/16-ult...#janlittleguys
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1248)
signex
Ancient Guru
 
signex's Avatar
 
Videocard: Asus RX460 4GB Unlocked
Processor: Intel Pentium G4560
Mainboard: MSI H110M Pro-VD
Memory: 8GB Crucial DDR4 2133mhz
Soundcard: Onboard
PSU: EVGA 430W
Default 01-28-2017, 10:13 | posts: 8,136 | Location: Netherlands

Gotta invest someday in a SVS subwoofer, keep hearing so much about it.

After a week i finally received the sub, not in good condition there was random stuff in the cabinet i had to remove.

The sub didn't work when i had it in the LFE input, and it didn't go on.
So the left is connected to the white RCA and the right one in the other red RCA input.

Don't think they will sound the same if i had left the other in LFE.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1249)
GenClaymore
Ancient Guru
 
GenClaymore's Avatar
 
Videocard: GTX 1080 FE @ 2100/5556
Processor: I7 3930k @ 4.3ghz
Mainboard: Asus X79 Sabertooth
Memory: G-skill 4x4GB DDR3-1600
Soundcard: Jotunheim BAL>JBL305/R70x
PSU: Cosair RM850
Default 03-22-2017, 23:26 | posts: 5,894 | Location: Southfield,MI

I ended up moving away from my HD 700, to the Audio Technica R70x which I enjoy alot more then the HD700, using my Zxr for now til I move to the schiit Jot /w Dac module. After wards I will get me some balanced cables for my R70x and maybe an thicker pair of ear-pads if i don't get the brainwave HM5 circle earpads and use them.

I have 2x LT1498 with 2x OPA627AU op-amp installed in my Zxr so i enjoying with that config so far, but still I can't wait til i move to the jot. It's even lighter then the HD700 to me. I have no regrets of selling my HD700, I almost went for the monoprice M1060 but i glad i didn't due to all of those QC issues.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#1250)
AMD4Life
Master Guru
 
Videocard: NVIDIA GTX 980 Ti 6GB
Processor: Intel Xeon X5675 4.41GHz
Mainboard: ASUS P6X58D-E
Memory: 24GB GSkill DDR3 1680MHz
Soundcard: Modi-MB>Vali 2>HD650
PSU: Corsair HX850i
Default 03-23-2017, 02:19 | posts: 158 | Location: USA

Well, I've had an interesting past couple months with my PC audio setup. I went from an X-Fi Titanium PCIe sound card to a Schiit Fulla 2 DAC/amp. While the Fulla 2 was great, I ended up getting the upgrade-itis within the 15 day return period and returned it towards the Modi Multibit DAC & Vali 2 amp. I also bought some HD 598 Cs (closed) headphones and sent them back after trying the HD 598 SE open version. I also bought the HD650s. Did a bit of tube rolling with the Vali 2 and settled on the Gold Lion E88CC.

I don't regret any of these purchases and my old X-Fi is now sitting in a box of extra/old computer parts. Glad to have gotten rid of the Creative software & drivers!
   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright (c) 1995-2014, All Rights Reserved. The Guru of 3D, the Hardware Guru, and 3D Guru are trademarks owned by Hilbert Hagedoorn.