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korn666
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Default 09-05-2011, 09:22 | posts: 657

love the sikkmod great job!
   
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Default 09-05-2011, 10:37 | posts: 1,206

I'm loving the new sikkmod with wulfen and monoseed's textures (using POM since it looks so good) but I hope there may be further improvements. 8xEQAA forced via RP, 16x Anisotropy in doomconfig.cfg and ultra settings.

FXAA - blurry... I can't stand it even when I increase CG sharpness up to 1.4-1.6. Any more destroys the image quality. Is there a way to tweak the sharpening or blurring?
RGB AA - a good balance with CG sharpness at 1.4

Shadows - Gaussian looks incredible but slows my system down to ~ 8-10 FPS. Note CFX is not working. I tried box and Poisson but they don't look as good and FPS drops just the same.

I am using all defaults with Bloom on , CG Color with either MATH at 0 (too dark) or LUT 16 or 22 - make sure to set AF to application under Radeon Pro or turn off force AF in CCC and HDR mode 0.1-1.0 luminescence, and Reinhard XYZ, Reinhard RGB and Natural glare.

I cannot use SSIL OR SSAO other than for screenshots. Looks good but the performance toll is high with the hires texture packs.

Edit - I dropped AA down to 2xEQAA (2xSSAA) and enabled SSAO and SSIL now with Gaussian filters. Get ~ 20 FPS!

Still cannot enable Shadows which would still drop to less than 10 FPS but looks incredible.

Last edited by Valken; 09-05-2011 at 10:54.
   
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  (#28)
NiukNiuk
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Default 09-05-2011, 11:18 | posts: 2,057 | Location: France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikkpin View Post
For those of you getting a completely black screen when using one of the parallax shaders, download this small patch that contains the proper working shaders.

Cheers.
Thank you and welcome
...and thanks for posting here !

Finally the gameplay changes (armor/damage values) are not forced now, and the same applies for the HUD (alpha hud), Thank you Sikkpin.
Overall it looks better than 1.1, the DoF seems more natural (in "automatic" mode), it adapts faster and looks really good IMO.
And now I can play with DoF and SSAO on
...I still can't apply/force AA though, but I blame ATI for this.
   
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sexus
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Default 09-05-2011, 12:25 | posts: 300 | Location: hell

ey niukniuk how bout a updated complete package for us noobs?still got youre old one

id appreciate it , peace
   
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NiukNiuk
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Default 09-05-2011, 12:31 | posts: 2,057 | Location: France

I'm waiting for RoE sikkmod 1.2 to come out

But now there's not much to edit anymore, since in Sikkmod 1.2 you can enable/disable immediately the gameplay changes (armor/damage/ammo) from "original doom 3" to "sikkmod gameplay balance". You can also enable/disable the alpha hud. These were my two main problems with Sikkmod 1.0 & 1.1, and now it's perfect.

So there's not really anything for me to "edit" anymore
I'll just edit the VenomHQmenu with the updated sikkmod 1.2 menu.
   
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sexus
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Default 09-05-2011, 12:51 | posts: 300 | Location: hell

sounds great ill be waiting

p.s: not much to edit?


no matter just reupload youre updated package with youre best settings

make it boom !!!! xD

btw i think the best looking is the offset pom what does yall think ?

oh and please release an update for Prey niukniuk id appreciate it
   
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Default 09-05-2011, 12:56 | posts: 13,412 | Location: √╥

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valken View Post
I'm loving the new sikkmod with wulfen and monoseed's textures (using POM since it looks so good) but I hope there may be further improvements. 8xEQAA forced via RP, 16x Anisotropy in doomconfig.cfg and ultra settings.

FXAA - blurry... I can't stand it even when I increase CG sharpness up to 1.4-1.6. Any more destroys the image quality. Is there a way to tweak the sharpening or blurring?
RGB AA - a good balance with CG sharpness at 1.4

Shadows - Gaussian looks incredible but slows my system down to ~ 8-10 FPS. Note CFX is not working. I tried box and Poisson but they don't look as good and FPS drops just the same.

I am using all defaults with Bloom on , CG Color with either MATH at 0 (too dark) or LUT 16 or 22 - make sure to set AF to application under Radeon Pro or turn off force AF in CCC and HDR mode 0.1-1.0 luminescence, and Reinhard XYZ, Reinhard RGB and Natural glare.

I cannot use SSIL OR SSAO other than for screenshots. Looks good but the performance toll is high with the hires texture packs.

Edit - I dropped AA down to 2xEQAA (2xSSAA) and enabled SSAO and SSIL now with Gaussian filters. Get ~ 20 FPS!

Still cannot enable Shadows which would still drop to less than 10 FPS but looks incredible.
forget about SSIL its kinda like super sampling POM, same with soft shadows not worth the perf. hit.. idk about SSAO but last time i used it there were some visible boundaries, especially in more open areas..
   
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  (#33)
gridiron whirlw
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Default 09-05-2011, 14:01 | posts: 3,772 | Location: Ohio

Welcome Sikkpin....your mod rocks.
   
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  (#34)
NiukNiuk
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Default 09-05-2011, 14:31 | posts: 2,057 | Location: France

Another screenshot comparison, this time with the FPS counter in the pictures
(Also: Bloom: ON, Color Grading: ON, Film Grain: ON, HDR: ON, Edge AA: OFF, DoF: OFF, SSAO: OFF, Soft Shadows: OFF, SSIL: OFF, Sunshafts: OFF...and apparently AA off, even thought it was forced @ 4x SSAA)

Default (no vfp files used, glprogs folder empty)


Parallax


parallax with offset limiting


POM


Relief


steep parallax


Notice the errors on the circles on the ground (not aligned), when the first two parallax modes are used.
   
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  (#35)
JonasBeckman
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Default 09-05-2011, 15:18 | posts: 13,082 | Location: Sweden

It's a limitation in the shader code (EDIT: well game-engine code or what to say.), one of the things people want the Doom 3 (After Rage has been released.) IDTech4 source code for, amongst many other things.

Or so I've come to understand it.
(Different and more complex techniques will minimize the effect but the limits of the OpenGL API the game uses has it's drawbacks.)

EDIT: Couldn't find the specific post just yet but one thing that came to mind was how the above pictures while showing some subtle differences also looked fairly alike, you are using a texture pack with the correct heightmaps are you?
(Otherwise the effect would be fairly flat, similar to normal-maps and their impact upon the game, of course the levels and surfaces have their own properties as well and I guess the Mars base has rather subtle details as to avoid making it overly pixelated.)


EDIT: Ah that's my mistake then for not noticing, those both use heightmaps and thus it's just down to those specific textures and materials.
(Having everything being super steep isn't nice either of course, it's a nice effect when utilized properly however as shown in many screens from these mods.)

Last edited by JonasBeckman; 09-05-2011 at 15:44.
   
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  (#36)
NiukNiuk
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Default 09-05-2011, 15:25 | posts: 2,057 | Location: France

I'm using Monoxead's and Wulfen's texture packs, which are the "official" Doom 3 texture packs now
   
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sexus
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Default 09-05-2011, 16:07 | posts: 300 | Location: hell

well niukniuk?

did you get my latest post? about the prey with sikkmod 1.2 and an updated release of youre complete sikkmod package with high rez textures?
   
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NiukNiuk
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Default 09-05-2011, 16:16 | posts: 2,057 | Location: France

Sikkpin only released Sikkmod 1.2 for Doom 3 at the moment
RoE will surely came later, and I don't know about Quake 4 or Prey Sikkmod 1.2 versions.

When the RoE version will come out, I'll try to make an "update" to my pack (an archive to extract/overwrite in your current Doom 3 folder, which will bring sikkmod 1.2 and the modified versions of 6th Venom's HQ main menu mod).

But as I said earlier, I'll leave sikkmod untouched (most of the changes I made are already available in this new 1.2 version), so I'll just edit the HQ main menu mod (because the sikkmod options menu is a bit different now: new entries).

It will be faster for me to do this instead of reuploading a whole pack (which I may do, if I have the time ^^)
   
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sexus
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Default 09-05-2011, 16:49 | posts: 300 | Location: hell

ok im counting on you bro , btw prey 1.2 sikkmod would be sikk xD

p.s: i hope you do reupload the whole new updated pack , not that i get confused -.-'
   
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  (#40)
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Default 09-05-2011, 18:05 | posts: 5,615

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiukNiuk View Post

Notice the errors on the circles on the ground (not aligned), when the first two parallax modes are used.
Yes It also "opened" that big box
Notice how aliasing was boosted on the last two pics.

Which leaves us with POM, hmm...
   
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  (#41)
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Default 09-05-2011, 18:17 | posts: 1,206

If you have NiukNiuk's Combo pack for Sikkmod 1.1 installed, you don't need to wait for NiukNiuk to update it to use it for Doom3.

Just renamed the old sikkmod folder to something like sikkmod1.1 and install the new sikkmod. Then copy the glprogs folder you want to use. I used POM so I copied the interaction.vfp and test.vfp from sikkmod/glprogs/pom into sikkmod/glprogs.

Then launch your doom 3 game, and select Sikkmod 1.2. Tweak your settings and it works. Make sure to enable high or ultra quality to get the correct texture effect.

As NiukNiuk said, you are only missing Venom's menus to launch the game and Sikkmod 1.2 for ROE.

---

BTW: I did a crap load of testing now just to see where the performance impacts are for my setup.

CFX has to be disabled (so cannot rename doom3.exe to serioussam.exe to force CFX)and AF MUST be set to APPLICATION in CCC or Radeon Pro for Sikkmod Color Grading LUT to work. If EITHER is enabled, LUT does not work correctly.

1x 6950 working
AF set to application in Radeon Pro for DOOM3.exe or whatever you named it to disable CatAI.

I tried MLAA, 2xEQAA, 4xEQAA and 8xEQAA. 60+ FPS with hires textures and POM enabled. 42+ FPS with hires textures, POM and Sikkmod loaded but everything turned off. No difference even with 1x 6950 so that tells me this gpu has enough ROPS to push hardware AA and it is either a cpu or shader load issue with Sikkmod.

Did not test FXAA injection yet. Edit ... FXAA not available for OpenGL yet!

Bloom - no FPS impact
Color Grading - MATH or LUT settings - no FPS impact
Color Grading Edge AA - No FPS impact whatever setting
HDR only - dropped my FPS down to half ~ 20 FPS!
Shadows only - dropped my FPS down to half ~ 20 FPS
SSAO only - Drop FPS down to 23 FPS
SSAI only - Drop FPS down to ~ 25-27 FPS

I tested almost all settings except for motion blur or DOF (no impact btw) and my preferences in order of most impact would be HIRES textures + HDR (tie), Shadows, Color Grading, then extra Bloom, SSAO or SSIL.

I have not tweaked SSAO or SSIL to realize the full benefits yet but HDR + Shadows alone makes the game look incredibly different. The bad thing is that with both HDR + Shadows enabled, it would drop my FPS down to ~ 8-10 FPS.

I did test forcing CFX on by renaming the exe to serioussam.exe but that limited Color Grading to MATH only - CG Sharpness and Edge AA still works, but both HDR and Shadows dropped the FPS down to ~ 12-15 FPS. Still totally unplayable. Adding SSAO and SSIL dropped it down to 8 FPS.

Changing the blur settings in either HDR, Shadows, SSAO or SSIL to and from Gaussian made no difference. Gaussian to me looks the best btw.

Lastly, the lack of AA in some screenshots are actually post rendering specular issues and not necessarily ATI's driver issues. I hope I am explaining it right but someone please correct me if I am wrong.

The way HDR and Bloom works is that when it bounces light onto textures to light it up and/or make it shiny, the mod must re-render that part of the picture (after it has been processed by the driver with AF and AA) to make the surface appear lit and shiny, it throws away or did not include the previous AA work. Thus that is why Sikkmod must have edge AA to reprocess the edges again to remove the jaggies.

It also corrupts the AF which is why all the shiny surfaces have the "swirl" effect yet the other textures are filtered perfectly sharp and smooth.

If you play Doom3 without Sikkmod but with any AA enabled in the drivers, you will see it works since the drivers performs the final rendering with AA. You can also see it on non-lit shiny surfaces even with Sikkmod. Its only those parts where the surface or texture has been re-lit that you see the jaggies unless you enable Edge AA.

I've seen this in Deadspace 1 and 2 for example with driver AA enabled. All the shiny surfaces looks like it has no AA yet the rest of the scene including the player model looks near perfect with 8xEQAA. Even with MLAA which in the end is defeated since I think Sikkmod does the final render after the drivers.

RGB edge AA looks okay if you up the CG Sharpness. FXAA is actually worst than MLAA in that it blurs the overall scene even with CG Sharpness turned up. I think FXAA can still be tweaked for better balance though.

Its at this time I realize how much I miss Nvidia's superior OpenGL performance or the downsampling AA ability. The quality is there on the ATI cards (SRGSSAA), but OpenGL performance still needs work.

Can someone with an Nvidia card turn off all MS or SS AA and run this mod with full screen downsampling or FXAA on? I want to see if it cleans up the specular (shiny) surfaces without using Sikkmod's edge AA.

Last edited by Valken; 09-06-2011 at 05:41.
   
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sexus
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Default 09-05-2011, 19:54 | posts: 300 | Location: hell

i think id rather wait till niukniuk releases a complete updated pack

including 1.2 sikkmod for doom 3 and roe , including the hq menu

but thanks anyways valken
   
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  (#43)
Noisiv
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Default 09-05-2011, 21:06 | posts: 5,615

@Valken

Specular aliasing in Doom 3 was bugging me all along. I googled the hell out of it.
Till I accidentally saw this. It seems that TrSS is full screen in Doom 3. Same like we got full screen SGSSAA because of an alpha test bug.





-------NOAA-------------16xS----------DS(3200x1800)-----DS+2xMS+2xTrSS-----4xMS+4xTrSS---
   
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TheHunter
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Default 09-05-2011, 21:54 | posts: 13,412 | Location: √╥

yep i noticed it right away in doom3 (TrAA- 2x or 4x ssaa), but also it makes a little blurrier image compared to TrAA- msaa,.. it fixes those ugly floor fences 98%, but takes a hit when you see those demon fire balls.. from 60fps cap to mid 50ish or so.. i didnt like the look of that so i settled with traa- msaa
   
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Noisiv
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Default 09-05-2011, 22:29 | posts: 5,615

The hell you did!

I asked in Sikkmod 1.1 thread and nobody knew how to get rid of floor crap and specular aliasing.

besides... I still dont understaind what did u settled for in the end.

Last edited by Noisiv; 09-05-2011 at 22:32.
   
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  (#46)
TheHunter
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Default 09-05-2011, 22:56 | posts: 13,412 | Location: √╥

ha-ha *nelson laugh* lol

Well you would have noticed this right away if you're such an AA tweaker, TrAA is for fences and stuff like that


And that's the first thing i did when i noticed this crap on the floor. I enabled transparency aa and set to 4xSSAA and it disappeared, well most of it (~95-97%), but perf. hit was to much imo by IMP demons with throwing fire balls..

So now Im using TrAA - multi sampling, it has clearer picture, no perf. impact by those fire balls, but with only ~ 60-70% fixed floor shimmering.

With ingame 4xaa and enhanced to 16xcsaa, but with 1.1 sikkmod i had to lower to 8xcsaa, esp. if i enabled HDR and auto DOF or i saw drops to mid 40ish fps.
Well i prefer 60fps if possible even if i have to disable SSAO or Softshadows or lower TrAA to msaa.

Last edited by TheHunter; 09-05-2011 at 23:18. Reason: typo..
   
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Noisiv
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Default 09-05-2011, 23:22 | posts: 5,615

Re-check your screenies -> Nvidia's Transparency Multisampling does nothing in Doom 3

4xMS+4xTrSS <-------TWIMTBP


Last edited by Noisiv; 09-05-2011 at 23:26.
   
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TheHunter
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Default 09-06-2011, 00:32 | posts: 13,412 | Location: √╥

yes it does, i saw it myself in motion..

ingame edge detect improves it for 40-50% add Traa-msaa on top and its ~ 60-70% vs TrAA- 2xssaa with 90-95%.
   
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Valken
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Default 09-06-2011, 05:52 | posts: 1,206

@ Noisiv - Thank you for the SS! The DS + 2xMS + 2xTrSS looks incredible! All of my tests so far with EQAA (SRGSSAA) looks like your DS only SS with the specular aliasing ruining what would have been a good looking scene.

This is why I wish ATI/AMD would provide us a brute force DS method for older games and I know about the TrSSAA setting since I used it on my 465 GTX which is now my dedicated PhysX card.

I agree with TheHunter that it does blur the image slightly, so could you try to up Color Gradient Sharpness from between 1.0 - 1.4 to see if it would help make it looks more like the 4xMS + 4xTRSS screens?

In terms of getting rid of the aliasing, DS + 2xMS + 2xTrSS wins. I noticed it did cut your FPS nearly in by 40% though! Still not bad at 38 FPS. I'm dropping down 20 FPS with either HDR or Shadows on (single card).

Come to think of it, I'm going to try forcing Adaptive AA which is essentially TrSS to see how it may look on AMD cards and I noticed in testing Quake 4 yesterday, my Crossfire was fully working with working LUT settings in Sikkmod 1.1 Lite. So I will rename doom3.exe to quake4.exe and see how it goes.

Edit - I just renamed Doom3.exe to Quake4.exe, set AF in Radeon Pro to Application, set AF to 16x in autoexec.cfg in Doom3 directory and everything is working now! I can use Color Gradient - LUT settings with CFX enabled! No more graphics corruption.

But with HDR and Shadows on, I still drop FPS down to ~ 10 FPS so its either negative scaling or unoptimized OpenGL. Tried single card, AFR, Scissors and Supertiling. No change.

Can some Radeon 5970 or 5870/5850 CFX users test this to see if they are getting multigpu scaling with an older OpenGL from like 10.10e? I heard the 5xxx series guys had an incredible OpenGL driver which we 68xx/69xx do not have.

Last edited by Valken; 09-06-2011 at 06:40.
   
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  (#50)
Noisiv
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Default 09-06-2011, 06:28 | posts: 5,615

I am so glad you liked the screenies

Nvidia is so sweet with their AA bugs turned features.
It's like my Mom...she makes all right cakes...
but she makes an awesome cake when something goes wrong

I'll definitely try Color Gradient trick xD
Hope you make it with CFX and Adaptive.
Trouble with Adaptive is you can't combine it with supersampling, because it already has SS component, right?

And lastly, I was wondering why both Sikkmod threads were a bit sparse on AA details. There should be more NV/AMD specific posts concerning AA.
Too many gurus think AA is just to battle jaggies
   
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