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Mr.Bigtime
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Default 04-23-2009, 11:00 | posts: 20,704 | Location: Turkey

Thanx for the info.....i didnt know that. Always good read new information. Still, i run on NO PAGEFILE and there is no FACT i cant see around that its harmful to my PC. But the point i always forget to point out is: Iam a GAMER. i use my PC to GAME...i presume u can have problems with Some major applications around.

And iam not saying: Go delete ur PAGEFILES and get your freedom....i opened this topic to see if tehre r people like me. and happy....i am willing to see someone who has V***304;sta64 and 8GB and no pagefile and COMPLAINING about it..iam really willing to see it. anybody?

Also if RAM prices were HIGH, it was maybe nonsense to talk about 8GB stuff but its damn cheap.even in my country.
   
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SnooSnoo
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Default 04-23-2009, 11:07 | posts: 1,177 | Location: Croatia

I guess it all boils down to what you intend to do with given os and hardware. Gamers would gain from having everything put in ram, in case of power loss, no vital data should be lost.

However, for anyone doing any serious work on windows os'es, the page file is a must. But, along with that, the person doing serious work would not only rely on the os's "healing" capability's, he would have an ups to save his work in a timely fashion in order prevent any data loss.

Its pretty much the same with serious raid controllers, in order to further minimize data loss, they got battery's stuck on the caches. Pretty neat...

I gues a gamer/bencher needs to test out himself what makes his gaming/benching experience the best. The rest of the world needs to be "better safe than sorry". I gues...
   
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Mr.Bigtime
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Default 04-23-2009, 11:13 | posts: 20,704 | Location: Turkey

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnooSnoo View Post
I guess it all boils down to what you intend to do with given os and hardware. Gamers would gain from having everything put in ram, in case of power loss, no vital data should be lost.

However, for anyone doing any serious work on windows os'es, the page file is a must. But, along with that, the person doing serious work would not only rely on the os's "healing" capability's, he would have an ups to save his work in a timely fashion in order prevent any data loss.

Its pretty much the same with serious raid controllers, in order to further minimize data loss, they got battery's stuck on the caches. Pretty neat...

I gues a gamer/bencher needs to test out himself what makes his gaming/benching experience the best. The rest of the world needs to be "better safe than sorry". I gues...
Now this is something i can STRONGLY AGREE ON...now iam at office..and have a USB EXTERNAL Western Digital. this is laptop..and electric shutdown stuff is no problem but anykind of data loss is important for me...i keep synchronized my laptop with that USb disk all the time. and this is XP with 2GB but i enabled PF...
   
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Default 04-23-2009, 12:01 | posts: 1,426 | Location: israel

SnooSnoo summed it up.
Gamers can tweak their systems beyonds safety levels.
Other users had better keep their systems slightly safer.
I no longer wildly OC my system since I crashed my comp while my wife was doing our taxes.
It was a cold lonely weekend on the couch . . .
   
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Mr.Bigtime
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Default 04-23-2009, 12:07 | posts: 20,704 | Location: Turkey

Quote:
Originally Posted by smnoamls View Post
SnooSnoo summed it up.
Gamers can tweak their systems beyonds safety levels.
Other users had better keep their systems slightly safer.
I no longer wildly OC my system since I crashed my comp while my wife was doing our taxes.
It was a cold lonely weekend on the couch . . .
I am lovely with this post too


and lol about
Quote:
It was a cold lonely weekend on the couch
   
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Default 04-23-2009, 20:32 | posts: 89 | Location: NE Pennsylvania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bigtime View Post
Hey,


i wonder if there r people like me around who has 64bit OS with 8GB ram and using NO PAGEFILE.?

I heard enough that people say NO PAGEFILE=PROBLEM. but i experience since 2004 No PageFile(NPF). with xp i had 2GBs of ram with NPF and had no problems..played CRYSIS etc and had no problems. but in vista 4Gb and NPF = Out of virtual memory error. But 8GB NPF=PURE GAMING

As we all know accessing RAM is faster than accessing HDD which PAGE FILE is on HDD as we all know..what u say peope?
I just used a program mkvtovob that used all 8GB of my ram and started paging to the HD. May have been a bug but the whole system would have crashed without that pagefile...
   
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Default 04-23-2009, 22:54 | posts: 3,011 | Location: UK

Its as i've posted before, and i still maintain its entirly dependent on what your using the system for. I turned my page file off yesterday and so far no probs, but then all i do is mostly game and surf so i didnt really expect a prob.

However i'll probably be turning it back on as i've seen no performance increase whatsoever, same as when i jumped from 4Gig to 8Gig. Bit of a pointless upgrade really, which again really only worth it if your doing something that requires the RAM.
   
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Default 04-23-2009, 23:55 | posts: 9,042 | Location: Indiana

why not just let let windows take care of its own. i mean if any kind of OS tweaks offer the slightest bit noticable improvement in performance, then its time to update your hardware. plain and simple.

if you cant afford, then its all well and good but better off to just use a lighter OS. i dont really see a debate of pagefile or any other kind of OS alteration really going anywhere important.
   
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Default 04-24-2009, 00:05 | posts: 25,235 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bigtime View Post
Is there a way to restore data from ur PAGEFILE?

and i never had a problem about LOST DATA...theories theories theories. i myself dont know how THINGS work in Vista 64 OLS. i mean game fi***351;les loads to RAm and u play. then ur pc shutdown..what u expect? restore game files?

U work on a word file..u were writing on it then pc shutdown....what u expect? word default setup takes backup file and its mostly in , where u created ur file..not RAM..or not PF...PF is same as RAM but on HDD...and if ur WORD file desnt have a backup file(if u disable from options in word) there is no way to take it back after a shutdown. even if u have 1TB pagefile, u r not going to able to restore so MY opinion is: the thing u r talking about is nonsense. pls do not take offense...just my opinion which cant reflect reality.
Another good point...
   
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  (#110)
sepulchre
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Default 04-24-2009, 00:47 | posts: 330 | Location: UK

Sorry not been here to back you up more pillmonster, but been away since i first posted here, but i am glad to see you are getting the better of this discussion.

I have Vista U with 4 gb of ram, PF disabled and no problems, this is a mainly internet browser, Gaming computer.
If you want to test this, you should either have a 1 1/2x ram page file or no page file.
Setting a page file of some stupidly small amount proves nowt because your comp will try to use it.
So page file of 1gb max 1gb min is pointless, because you will get harddrive thrashing and constant harddrive usage even tho you don't need to use it.
Hope this is clear.


@xrc6 when has it ever been a good idea to let moneygrab control anything to do with you're comp.

Last edited by sepulchre; 04-24-2009 at 00:57.
   
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  (#111)
sepulchre
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Default 04-24-2009, 01:00 | posts: 330 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt26LFC View Post
Its as i've posted before, and i still maintain its entirly dependent on what your using the system for. I turned my page file off yesterday and so far no probs, but then all i do is mostly game and surf so i didnt really expect a prob.

However i'll probably be turning it back on as i've seen no performance increase whatsoever, same as when i jumped from 4Gig to 8Gig. Bit of a pointless upgrade really, which again really only worth it if your doing something that requires the RAM.

Dead right, the good thing about disabling page file tho, is that you are in charge of your computer, it is doing what you want, it is working for you.
   
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F1refly
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Default 04-24-2009, 01:14 | posts: 9,042 | Location: Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepulchre View Post
@xrc6 when has it ever been a good idea to let moneygrab control anything to do with you're comp.
good idea??
this is an enthusiasts crowd here. just look at everyones specs. you think too many here are worried about how much they spend for performance?
If you an enthusiast, nothing is a good idea yet it wont stop you. not sure if your belonging here or not?
   
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Cybermancer
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Default 04-24-2009, 01:18 | posts: 13,801 | Location: Cyberspace

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrc6 View Post
i dont really see a debate of pagefile or any other kind of OS alteration really going anywhere important.
Well, at the very least it's able to give you a better understanding of your OS.
   
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  (#114)
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Default 04-24-2009, 01:43 | posts: 25,235 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrc6 View Post
i dont really see a debate of pagefile or any other kind of OS alteration really going anywhere important.
Hmm, Ok, in that case could you explain why this thread has had over 1,600 hits and well over 100 posts by some pretty IT savvy people...?

Seems to be a pretty hot topic atm....

Last edited by Pill Monster; 04-24-2009 at 01:58.
   
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  (#115)
sepulchre
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Smile 04-24-2009, 01:52 | posts: 330 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrc6 View Post
good idea??
this is an enthusiasts crowd here. just look at everyones specs. you think too many here are worried about how much they spend for performance?
If you an enthusiast, nothing is a good idea yet it wont stop you. not sure if your belonging here or not?
I think you missunderstood me, moneygrab was a ref to microsoft, the people who like to lock you into their OS, and get as much as they can.
Therefore they will tell you that you will need whatever gets them the most money.
IE lots of ram, large hard drive with room for large pagefile, etc,etc.

Sarcasm was used.
   
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sepulchre
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Default 04-24-2009, 01:57 | posts: 330 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrc6 View Post
why not just let let windows take care of its own. i mean if any kind of OS tweaks offer the slightest bit noticable improvement in performance, then its time to update your hardware. plain and simple.

if you cant afford, then its all well and good but better off to just use a lighter OS. i dont really see a debate of pagefile or any other kind of OS alteration really going anywhere important.
This is just a silly comment imo.

I have found a list of Vista tweaks on the net that will speed up startup and shutdown.
I have also found it great for disabling lots of Vista junk to increase performance.
Nowt to do with hardware, just Vista bloatware.
   
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F1refly
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Default 04-24-2009, 02:08 | posts: 9,042 | Location: Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepulchre View Post
This is just a silly comment imo.

I have found a list of Vista tweaks on the net that will speed up startup and shutdown.
I have also found it great for disabling lots of Vista junk to increase performance.
Nowt to do with hardware, just Vista bloatware.
theres a list of hardware doing the same thing but faster, like SSD. Vista isnt the only OS. W7 is on the horizon so whats your point? my point was simple, good enough hardware makes OS tweaks moot. tweaks vary depending on user, you shouldnt recommend everyone cripple something in thier OS cause they ma use it differently.
though i never found pagefile disabling to improve anything nor seen benchmarks to prove it but thats just my experience.
   
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sepulchre
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Default 04-24-2009, 02:26 | posts: 330 | Location: UK

Hardware costs . W7 how much? 100s?

Disabling PF may not improve anything performance wise, but it certainly does not inhibit performance, but it will limit hardware thrashing.

Also system tweaks are part of overclocking......... yes?

Don't a lot of people overclock and tweak to extend the life of their hardware?

Moreso now because of the so called credit crunch.
   
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F1refly
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Default 04-24-2009, 02:41 | posts: 9,042 | Location: Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepulchre View Post
Hardware costs . W7 how much? 100s?

Disabling PF may not improve anything performance wise, but it certainly does not inhibit performance, but it will limit hardware thrashing.

Also system tweaks are part of overclocking......... yes?

Don't a lot of people overclock and tweak to extend the life of their hardware?

Moreso now because of the so called credit crunch.
what are you arguing about, i thought i covered cost, read first post. one last time, my point was really very, very...very simple, i'll even sum it up for ya. faster hardware is always the better option.
ocin'g is hardware tweaking btw case you didnt realize, far from my posted comment and farther yet off topic. also keep in mind i'm not holding a gun to your head telling you what to do, i stated a simple fact is all
   
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  (#120)
Pill Monster
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Default 04-24-2009, 02:43 | posts: 25,235 | Location: NZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepulchre View Post
Hardware costs . W7 how much? 100s?

Disabling PF may not improve anything performance wise, but it certainly does not inhibit performance, but it will limit hardware thrashing.

Also system tweaks are part of overclocking......... yes?

Don't a lot of people overclock and tweak to extend the life of their hardware?

Moreso now because of the so called credit crunch.
Amen brother, well said.


Btw in reply to your earlier post to me: Most people used to think the Sun went round the Earth too, and that the Earth was flat (some still do - flat earth society...lol). Guess I'm just sticking to my guns...

Actually this is one of the best and most intelligent debates I've seen on Guru for a long time. Some interesting theories from both the for and against camps.

Congratulations to all involved for keeping this debate at a civilized level and not turning it into a flame war..
   
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sepulchre
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Default 04-24-2009, 02:55 | posts: 330 | Location: UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrc6;310****
what are you arguing about, i thought i covered cost, read first post. one last time, my point was really very, very...very simple, i'll even sum it up for ya. faster hardware is always the better option.
ocin'g is hardware tweaking btw case you didnt realize, far from my posted comment and farther yet off topic. also keep in mind i'm not holding a gun to your head telling you what to do, i stated a simple fact is all
No argument from me, but are you trying to tell me that overclocking your computer on the hardware level (see my cpu) is the only way to increase performance?

If there are otherways ie software tweaks, then i am sure that we will use /try them.

And lastly not everyone can aford to buy the latest hardware(like you or me) so tweaks are great for some.

Maybe when you use your bios to up your cpu or mem speed, it can be classed as a software tweak anyway, because you are not actually physically changing your'e hardware are you?
   
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  (#122)
SnooSnoo
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Default 04-24-2009, 07:38 | posts: 1,177 | Location: Croatia

The point in buying new hardware as soon as the software runs sluggish cant stand its ground (at least with home pc's). Everyone normal wants more out his/her limited budget at home. Tweaking your hardware goes hand in hand with tweaking your os. I personaly cant live with vistas indexing. It's annoying and slows down slower machines. I mean, that function is useless to me because I know exactly where my stuff is and I barely ever use the search function. So, ppl here say basicaly, well if that bothers you, you should just buy a new ssd with internal raid and stick it into your pcie 8x slot... well thats just nonsence. I've never been satisfied with os'es as they are. The functions in them are soo damn generic, I need to tweak them to get any work done.

Why the hell are there ppl building their own linux from scratch? Because it will give them the ultimate performance with their own hardware. (and I'm not talking bout gaming here).

Every os can become sluggish with time, so instead of maintainig it ppl should buy new hardware because of it? I doubt thats the right way to do stuff.

Besides, trial and error is how you learn stuff. Its how I learned a lot of stuff back then when there were no schools to teach you. And I still do, with my own machines. I just recently went into the world of open source, and its an awesome experience trying out different distros and theire respective flavours. Getting stuff to work on them, and when you suceed, its a good feeling of achievment.

Like I said before, most bueseness ppl just need to be on the safe side, others need to find out new stuff by taking things apart and building them back togheter, finding ways of making them better along the way...
   
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  (#123)
Mr.Bigtime
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Default 04-24-2009, 08:28 | posts: 20,704 | Location: Turkey

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepulchre View Post
Disabling PF may not improve anything performance wise, b
Totaly wrong. i cant agree sorry sir.

LOADING TIMES here we r working..sorry i didnt stress this before

LOADING TIMES DECREASE WHEN PF IS OFF.

PF OFF DOESNT MEAN INCREASE IN FPS

PF OFF ONLY IMPROVES UR LOADING TIMES AND MOST OF THE TIME SMOOTH FPS (This is because game files loads to RAM not PF on HDD so accesing those fiels r faster than HDD and so game engine or hwat ever process them directly from RAM as fast as possible..)


Comon people i dont ry to effect minds but this is what iam experiencing. Kingston or Crusader doesnt pay me for this

with 8GB of ram and no page file i am having faster loading times and smoother game play..

Last edited by Mr.Bigtime; 04-24-2009 at 10:32.
   
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  (#124)
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Default 04-24-2009, 08:53 | posts: 9,511 | Location: Aussie Perth WA

I think the easiest solution is to Enable PF and Put it set to 256/256

This lets the apps that require a pagefile to actually not cause errors. And Setting it to 256 wont slow down your hard drive/ computer. Just get a disk i/o monitor....its wont be going crazy if it only has 256 to work with.
   
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  (#125)
WhiteLightning
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Default 04-24-2009, 08:57 | posts: 26,448 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bigtime View Post
LOADING TIMES INCREASE WHEN PF IS OFF.
you mean Decrease here
   
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