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PayPal Dispute question...
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ElementalDragon
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Default PayPal Dispute question... - 06-12-2017, 02:44 | posts: 9,278 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

I would like to know the opinion of some of my fellow Guru3D members on this matter.

Nearly 3 months ago, i purchased a new head unit for my Smart ForTwo from AudioSources.net. Was looking at the unit for quite a while, debating whether or not to go through with buying it... but eventually did. Before buying it, I asked them on at least 2 or 3 occasions if the head unit supported the upgraded 8-speaker system in the ForTwo, each time being told yes it does.

The day after i got the unit, i was able to install it, only to find out that the wiring harness they provide for the unit does NOT allow the 8-speaker system to turn on, because one of the wires on the factory harness for the amplifiers remote lead isn't being used. Told them about it on Day 2 of owning it.

Now... after nearly 3 months, having told them several times how to fix it, sending them pictures of what wire would need to go where, and even sending them a VIDEO of which spot needs to be occupied by which wire (which was just the other week ago), the person i was chatting with suggested that i try buying some sort of digital signal converter or something to get the speakers working. Ever since i received the unit, I've ACTUALLY been using one of the rubber-coated twist ties like you usually see holding wire together, that i stripped the ends off of, and shoved that into the required pin on the wiring system. It works... but could be the cause of the occasional hiss/whine i hear through the speakers.

I've tried asking for a refund a couple times, but they told me that I would be required to ship the unit back. When i bought it, it cost me $250 + shipping & paypal fee's... which came out to $326 when all was said and done. By my figures, it would probably cost me anywhere between $100-150+ to ship it back. That was BEFORE being told that a specific shipping service would need to be used due to their strict importing laws in Japan. Which... yea... would probably make it cost even more to ship back. I also would not be refunded the shipping and fees i paid. I told them I'd be perfectly happy just getting the money back for the unit itself.... but they seem to just ignore that.

Anyway.... my question is, do you think I have good enough reason to open a dispute with PayPal on this? I mean... i purchased the unit after being told it would work in my situation on several occasions, which their harness does not, and i've been trying to get them to resolve the issue, with what seems like no end in sight. Seems like a good enough reason to start a dispute to me....
   
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bigpipe
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Default 06-12-2017, 03:20 | posts: 3,688 | Location: Atlanta

If you can fix it yourself do it! Just pull the connector pins and solder the wires together and be done with it.

If you are going to file a dispute you better hurry if not to late already....


If it were me I would just fix it and be done with it. You could be doing other things for the next 3 months.
   
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IcE
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Default 06-12-2017, 03:25 | posts: 10,627 | Location: Toledo

I think you're kinda out of luck, because they haven't specifically denied you a refund. It would just be prohibitively expensive to do one on your end. As far as PayPal is concerned, they've successfully delivered the product to you and are working with you on the issue. You generally only win disputes when you either can prove you never got the item or the other side is just not communicating with you at all when the item is damaged or doesn't work.

Honestly, I would just fix it myself if I was in your position. That's the least hassle. Do you know how to add and crimp a connector pin onto a wire? It's not particularly hard to learn, and the tools required to do so aren't prohibitively expensive either. From what you describe, the only issue is that the adapter harness didn't come with an output wire from the pin that connects the unit to the rest of your speakers, which isn't the fault of the unit if you were able to jerry rig it. Just fix it properly yourself and you should be good to go.
   
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Athlonite
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Default 06-12-2017, 03:46 | posts: 1,108 | Location: Hawkes Bay

I can't see why they just don't send you a new harness that's compatible obviously they've sent you the wrong one or outright lied about it in the first place just to make a sale


ii
   
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ElementalDragon
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Default 06-12-2017, 04:45 | posts: 9,278 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athlonite View Post
I can't see why they just don't send you a new harness that's compatible obviously they've sent you the wrong one or outright lied about it in the first place just to make a sale
That's the whole point! I've told them they need to change the harness to make it work with the 8-speaker system. I've shown them several different times how to change it to make it so. And the person i was chatting with STILL asked me "Why do you think our harness needs to be changed?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE
As far as PayPal is concerned, they've successfully delivered the product to you and are working with you on the issue.
Well.... technically they're NOT working with me on the issue. I've told them how to fix their wire harness, but they've shown zero signs of even being bothered enough to do so.

And i would crimp a connector pin onto the wire, but there are basically NO electronics supply stores near me to try to find the proper sized connector pin. I've tried buying other wire harnesses at Best Buy and such to cannibalize a wire with the connector from it, but every one i've found, the pin was a hair too large for the holes in their harness as well as the factory harness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpipe
If you can fix it yourself do it! Just pull the connector pins and solder the wires together and be done with it.
Well... I would do that.... but it seems a bit ridiculous to buy a radio after being told several times that it was compatible, and then have to cut the factory wiring to get it to ACTUALLY work. That's one thing that i'm kinda trying to avoid doing.... which is why i asked them several times if it actually worked with the 8-speaker system.
   
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bigpipe
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Default 06-12-2017, 05:17 | posts: 3,688 | Location: Atlanta

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post

Well... I would do that.... but it seems a bit ridiculous to buy a radio after being told several times that it was compatible, and then have to cut the factory wiring to get it to ACTUALLY work. That's one thing that i'm kinda trying to avoid doing.... which is why i asked them several times if it actually worked with the 8-speaker system.

I read your post and really do understand English.
Ok what I think is ridiculous is that you think they are really going to do what you want at this point. They lied to you and are giving you the run around now. You have spent 3 months on this already.

If you file a dispute how long will that take and where will you be when it done?
Hey, life is not fair so fix it yourself or do you just want sympathy?
   
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Default 06-12-2017, 05:20 | posts: 19,890 | Location: US East Coast

1 - aftermarket radios don't work with any car right out of the box. They require 1 or more adapter kits and/or some degree of modification either to an adapter kit or the vehicle. A co-worker just had a new head unit installed in her Expedition. It required 3 "kits" to get it working with her vehicle....

2 - You asked for a refund, which they agreed to under the typical terms, which require a return of the product. Since they offered a refund, starting a dispute with Paypal won't end in your favor.


   
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IcE
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Default 06-12-2017, 06:24 | posts: 10,627 | Location: Toledo

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
That's the whole point! I've told them they need to change the harness to make it work with the 8-speaker system. I've shown them several different times how to change it to make it so. And the person i was chatting with STILL asked me "Why do you think our harness needs to be changed?"



Well.... technically they're NOT working with me on the issue. I've told them how to fix their wire harness, but they've shown zero signs of even being bothered enough to do so.

And i would crimp a connector pin onto the wire, but there are basically NO electronics supply stores near me to try to find the proper sized connector pin. I've tried buying other wire harnesses at Best Buy and such to cannibalize a wire with the connector from it, but every one i've found, the pin was a hair too large for the holes in their harness as well as the factory harness.



Well... I would do that.... but it seems a bit ridiculous to buy a radio after being told several times that it was compatible, and then have to cut the factory wiring to get it to ACTUALLY work. That's one thing that i'm kinda trying to avoid doing.... which is why i asked them several times if it actually worked with the 8-speaker system.
They offered you a refund though, which is what they're going to tell PayPal when the dispute is filed. Not wanting to pay the shipping costs doesn't make it any less valid, unfortunately.

As for not having the right connector pin, there are two options. One is to measure the wire gauge and buy a range of male pins for that gauge online. Or you can go on Ebay and try and buy a small part of an interior harness from a wrecked car similar to your model and cannibalize the pins from that.

Last edited by IcE; 06-12-2017 at 06:28.
   
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thatguy91
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Default 06-12-2017, 06:41 | posts: 6,363 | Location: Australia

It all depends on the head unit bought. You won't likely find a head unit that is specifically designed to work with one specific vehicle, they all require either manual rewiring, adaptor kits, and typically special adaptors for steering wheel controls. Their answer to you is therefore both correct and incorrect. It does support your car with the correct rewiring or adaptor, but it doesn not support your car directly.

However, if they said in the title or description that it supports you specific model including model year, and it doesn't, then you can open a dispute as 'not as described'. Without seeing the original item listing it would be impossible for us to tell you whether you are able to open a dispute or not.

It sounds like you bought it from another country considering the the shipping costs. If the head unit is a major brand (Pioneer, Kenwood, JVC, etc) you could probably get adaptor kits. If it is some 'unknown' brand you are out of luck and will have to wire manually. If it is an unknown brand, that could account for the noise you hear.
   
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Default 06-12-2017, 09:05 | posts: 23

The PayPal dispute system is their own internal system which does indeed have a time limit to it. At the time of question writing, it was 45 days, I believe it is longer than that now? Good Luck. I had a dispute with Pay Pal they blocked me from using Skype. No big deal they claimed that I owed them money on Ebay.
I sent them the money even though it was already paid previously. Still I was blocked now by some term that I couldn't really understand. So I call CS and after this conversation and her repeating some behavior that I never did, she tells me that their is no way to verify what she just told me so that I could appeal it. Oh Well.
   
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Default 06-12-2017, 10:26 | posts: 4,283 | Location: Cheshire, England

Why would you buy something that is expensive to ship back? What you going to do if you need to make a warranty claim (unless they pay for it or just ship out replacements).
   
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ElementalDragon
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Default 06-12-2017, 14:12 | posts: 9,278 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy91 View Post
It all depends on the head unit bought. You won't likely find a head unit that is specifically designed to work with one specific vehicle, they all require either manual rewiring, adaptor kits, and typically special adaptors for steering wheel controls. Their answer to you is therefore both correct and incorrect. It does support your car with the correct rewiring or adaptor, but it doesn not support your car directly.

However, if they said in the title or description that it supports you specific model including model year, and it doesn't, then you can open a dispute as 'not as described'. Without seeing the original item listing it would be impossible for us to tell you whether you are able to open a dispute or not.

It sounds like you bought it from another country considering the the shipping costs. If the head unit is a major brand (Pioneer, Kenwood, JVC, etc) you could probably get adaptor kits. If it is some 'unknown' brand you are out of luck and will have to wire manually. If it is an unknown brand, that could account for the noise you hear.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...838.0.0.8deC80

That's the radio. Designed specifically for the latest model Smart. And as i said... has a proper wire harness that plugs into the factory wiring. Only thing missing is a single pin to connect the remote wire to turn the factory amp on and make it actually "compatible" with the 8-speaker system.
   
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airbud7
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Default 06-12-2017, 15:11 | posts: 4,103 | Location: Beech Island SC,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...838.0.0.8deC80

That's the radio. Designed specifically for the latest model Smart. And as i said... has a proper wire harness that plugs into the factory wiring. Only thing missing is a single pin to connect the remote wire to turn the factory amp on and make it actually "compatible" with the 8-speaker system.

Hey, I like that Radio!........Can't you splice the wire yourself like others have said?
   
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ElementalDragon
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Default 06-12-2017, 15:47 | posts: 9,278 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by airbud7 View Post
Hey, I like that Radio!........Can't you splice the wire yourself like others have said?
I could. But i also don't want to cut/damage the factory wiring just to do so. They told me that it is compatible with the 8-speaker system... so they should make it so, since i've told them how to do so and all it requires is one more pin to be used in their harness.

And the radio is nice... but it's not ALL nice. Nice improvement in sound quality over the factory head unit (probably helps that there are more than 2 audio adjustments in the EQ). Also cool to be able to hook an SSD up to it via USB and have a HUGE array of music to choose from. Downside is that browsing that array of music can be annoying, because things aren't in the greatest alphabetical order (which the phonebook has the same alphabetizing issue). Sometimes it won't even let you browse the music on the drive, only playing songs from whatever folder you were previously in. Also can't seem to get phone mirroring to work. Tried the app they have on the radio for it, installed the companion app on my phone, but it says that a specific SIM card is required IIRC. Android Auto isn't compatible with it.
   
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IcE
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Default 06-13-2017, 09:34 | posts: 10,627 | Location: Toledo

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementalDragon View Post
I could. But i also don't want to cut/damage the factory wiring just to do so. They told me that it is compatible with the 8-speaker system... so they should make it so, since i've told them how to do so and all it requires is one more pin to be used in their harness.

And the radio is nice... but it's not ALL nice. Nice improvement in sound quality over the factory head unit (probably helps that there are more than 2 audio adjustments in the EQ). Also cool to be able to hook an SSD up to it via USB and have a HUGE array of music to choose from. Downside is that browsing that array of music can be annoying, because things aren't in the greatest alphabetical order (which the phonebook has the same alphabetizing issue). Sometimes it won't even let you browse the music on the drive, only playing songs from whatever folder you were previously in. Also can't seem to get phone mirroring to work. Tried the app they have on the radio for it, installed the companion app on my phone, but it says that a specific SIM card is required IIRC. Android Auto isn't compatible with it.
Idk man, you took a gamble buying something from overseas just because someone said it would work. Doesn't seem fair to me that you want to just play the "I win card" and get all your money back because you're not 100% satisfied. Sometimes things don't go perfectly. Mistakes happen, people don't always know everything about the product they're selling. Technically he's not even wrong, it does work with the 8 speakers. It's just not completely 100% plug and play.

If you want to open a dispute then by all means you can try, but as people have mentioned, the time limit and other factors heavily weighs against you.
   
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Default 06-13-2017, 12:41 | posts: 5,314 | Location: England

Questions that will be asked are "Why did it take so long to raise a dispute?" and "Why will you not send the item back?"

Paypal dont care about the costs of return postage.

Couldnt you ask for a partial refund?

Personally i would bite the bullet, fix it and learn from it.
   
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