120hz or 60hz?

So I'd like to pose the question of whether or not people feel that 120hz has a superior experience when compared to 60hz LCD's.

Currently I am considering between...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236117&Tpk=vh238h

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236104&Tpk=vg236he

Only major difference is the hz, but I dont want to anti up if it isnt going to be worth it.

Thoughts?

 

well i just bought the VS248h-p to replace my 2053bw and it handles motion better then the samsung, 120hz will better, but think you video card has to beable to handle that much more fps. I didnt buy 120hz cause i didnt want to drop that much in monitor and my gpu wouldnt handle that

 

I think it is worth it by a long shot, but in a few minutes trolls will be in here saying you cant see a difference past 60hz ignore them

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009222

This is what i have, it has more reviews than the asus.

 

doubt it matters much if ur playing <30fps

if u plan to upgrade ur rig (or sig) then it might get different

 

Defo worth it, you're one step closer to CRT performance with it.

 

as they have said, if your rig is able to run games at 120hz or you are gonna watch some 3d films, yes it worth every cent

 

The colors on the VG236HE are not that accurate but IMO it's still worth the sacrifice because real 120 Hz input helps incredibly well against the judderish motion side effect you'll typically get if using only 60 Hz to play games on.

A very common problem with games graphics is the fps jumps up and down all the time. This is what causes motion to be unsmooth even though for example Blu Ray movies in 1080p appear totally smooth (even though they are usually only 23.976 fps or 24 fps).

So because it isn't always technically possible to cap a game at 30 fps (at least, not without introducing a new problem) the only way to work your way around the issue is to either stick to outdated CRT technology or buy a 120 Hz monitor. This is because the judderish effect becomes less and less noticeable as minimum fps rises but I guess I don't have to tell you there aren't any single GPU vidcards out there that can give you higher than 60 minimum fps in all games at highest game settings in 1920x1080 resolution. It takes at least two of the very best vidcards in SLI / CF in a fairly high end rig for it to be worthwile IMO.

Personally, I would always prefer a 120 Hz monitor simply because it adds the ability to use a pair of Nvidia 3D Vision shutter glasses for stereoscopic 3D, which, when combined with a pair of GTX 580 cards is not just a gimmick (in some games titles, it actually entirely blows your socks off IMHO). Others will prefer one (or maybe three) of those hugely expensive 30" IPS panels but again, personally, on those I wouldn't want to play BF BC3 online.

EDIT: The Asus VG236H is the same monitor as the VG236HE but comes with a wireless Nvidia 3D Vision kit already included.

 

Commonly I play Starcraft 2 and quake live.. however I am going to be buying RAGE and future fps/whatever i want, and am looking to invest in a monitor that will be suitable for my needs in the immediate future.

I am currently upgrading my PC one component at a time based on the tick tock principle, and will be buying a 6k amd series video card once the 7k comes out and prices drop or stabilize. Then I will be upgrading my MOBO to the tock of the bulldozer CPU, and ddr3 (or 4 if its out) at that point. My currend HD is a 60gb SSD that I got for 250 bucks about a year ago, which will eventually be updated to a higher capacity when price and performance is better. Power supply is fine and not an issue, nor is my case so long as ATX remains the current form factor.

So all this said, my next step is to replace my crt (which died and im using a 8 year old LCD), then most likely I will update my video card to either the 6950 or 6970.

For those of you that frequent this section of the forums you will notice that I am not a fan of the LCD screen technology, and as such have had a hard time transitioning into it. The only question for me at this point is whether or not to invest in the 120hz models or just get the 60hz variant.

I do understand that LCD is crap technology, and the replacement tech is being developed, but it could still be years away. Being 30, at this point in my life I wish to get the most "bang" for my buck, so what I am really after is just HOW much 120hz is worth it in comparison to 60hz.. based on my needs.

Any personal experience or website resources will be much appreciated. Any true technical information will be relished.

 

^ If you're a fan of online shooters then yes, IMO you should aim for the 120 Hz.

 

To answer your question, yes.

You will be very happy you went with 120hz. For 3D meh, 120hz 2D, hell yes.

Samsung S23A950D 23inch
or
Samsung S27A950 27inch


There is just no competition for these monitors at the moment, its an easy choice, no lengthy response required here. Oh and for games running below 120fps, there is still a very noticeable difference even at 60fps and below. To be honest, I have no idea why 60hz monitors are even still being made.

All from personal experience of course, and a lot of research.

 

True, and as you said you need a $hitload of power to run games at 60+fps...

Even with my GTX 480 I was struggling to get playable frame rates in some games.

It's recommended to have at least a GTX 590 or 2 cards in sli/crossfire to get decent results..

 

I have previously had an Alienware AW2310, returned it because of backlight bleed. I now own an Asus VG236h and can't wait to get rid of it. 120hz is awesome, a big noticeable difference compared to 60hz, however only if one can have vsync+triple buffering with 120fps and not dropping only then is it better than 60hz.

In games like dirt 2, dirt 3, crysis 2. If I drop under 110fps I noticed slight choppiness. If i drop under 100fps I notice heavy choppiness. Especially when panning and looking to the left or right when objects come in focus. It's very hard to have 120fps in games like crysis 1+2, metro, and any new game unless you go sli or triple sli and that causes problems in itself.

Advantages of 120hz
Smoothest possible game play only with vsync and stable 120fps.
Reduced mouse lag with vsync
More responsiveness in 3d and 2d
Online First person shooting big advantage reduced mouse Lag. Minimum Ghosting.
3d vision..

Disadvantages
Choppy unless 120hz vsync, vsync off does not fix it.
Tearing with vsync off
60hz feels smoother if you can not maintain 120fps since you only need 60fps vsync to achieve smoothness
When running a 120hz panel @ 60hz it feels more laggy compared to a typical 60hz tn monitor.
To achieve 120fps you will "usually" have to lower graphic quality in game.


I have experienced these Advantages and Disadvantages with the AW2310 and the Asus VG236h. I will stick with an IPS 60hz panel for smoothness in all games. Hopefully the Samsung s24a850dw will be what I'm looking for.

 

lol...

Compared to the Asus VG236HE / VG236H it's ridiculously more expensive, has way, way more ghosting, worse colors after calibration AND worse contrast.

Same as above, with the addition of terrible input lag.

I bet my life on it you haven't compared the Asus to those Samsung models you listed, nor have done your research properly.

 

Of course 120hz is better for higher fps but i wouldnt swap my Dell IPS U2410 for any 120hz monitor as the colour clarity and definition blows away any 120hz monitor and i dont need to have 120hz to get a high frag rate,i do ok on 60hz

 

What can I say, 3D just hurts my eyes, and in its current state too blurry for me.

Let me guess, you own an Asus? I'm the same, I tend to lean towards something I've had actual use with, rather than judge it on fractions of a millisecond delay, that you wouldn't even notice in real world use. Also I don't notice anything at all wrong with the color or contrast, looks amazing, can't fault it (for a TN). Pretty sure the degree of imperfection your talking about with color would only be important with professional graphic design. In this case, you wouldn't be using a TN panel anyway. Also no noticeable ghosting at all at 120hz. Input lag... same as above, such miniscule amounts not noticeable in real world use, I notice none.

Same as above, except... I think you are referring to the model with the TV tuner built in (T27A950). Its a hybrid TV/monitor, no surprise there is input lag there.

Have, and prefer the Samsung. All the reviews I've looked at where very positive towards it, not sure what you've been looking at. The VG236HE is not even an LED monitor, so lacks clarity when comparing. Also yes the Samsung models are expensive, they are very new, its to be expected. If someone where that worried about this then why would they be looking at getting a new monitor, we are not talking about huge amounts here.

1 Review here: http://wecravegamestoo.com/forums/gadgetry-electronics-discussion/8220-samsung-s27a950d-review.html
(27" model, same as the 23" though)

 

That's just because the ghosting on those Samsung 120 Hz monitors is absolutely terrible and because you need high performance GPUs in SLI.

No, I don't. I've compared the picture quality of the 23" Samsung with that of the Asus (after having read some reviews first) and the Asus definately has the best picture quality in both 3D and 2D mode, despite not being LED backlit.

The ghosting I was referring to is what's causing the severe artefacting in 3D mode that'll give you sore eyes unless you're using 2D mode. The input lag of the 23" Samsung is indeed nothing to worry about.

Oops, you're right. My bad.

This is completely untrue, like I already said. If you compare them using your own eyes just like I did, you will immediately see that it's the other way round. The colors on the Asus are terrible out of the box, though. After calibration, the picture quality beats that of the Samsung by a narrow margin in 2D mode and devastatingly in 3D mode. At a fraction of the Samsung's price.

 

How much you feel 60 vs 120 depends on the game.

Something fast like quake, it feels like night and day.

Something slow like starcraft, you can't tell without nitpicking.

You will need to get 120fps in your games to make 120hz monitor worth while.
Note that 120hz refresh will reduce tearing with lower hz FPS.
But this is a non issue if at 120hz and 120fps.

When you initially go from 60hz to 120hz, you might feel a small change.

After you play with 120hz for a while, you won't be able to go back to 60hz.

Going back to 60hz (and 60+ fps) from 120hz (and 120+ fps) feels painful. Almost headache-inducing. Like a quick slide show.

Know how you can see a 60hz fluorescent lamp flashing? 60fps will feel like it's a similar rate to that. You will be able to pick apart frames.

Just like looking at 30hz when you're used to 60hz.

But again, the games matter.
If you're moving a lot, you will see the low frame rate.
If you're looking at a bunch of similar images, then the frame rate won't matter much.

Personally, I have run high refresh rates for ages @ high fps for ages.
I didn't go LCD until 120hz displays came out. Couldn't stand 60hz after being used to high refresh rate CRTs. It just hurt to look at.

-scheherazade

 

So apparently the Asus is just better in 3D, basically. I admit I haven't tried the 3D on any Samsung's, but that's because I just don't like it(in movies either), so its not a factor for me. I think Unfettered is not interested in 3D also. You can actually adjust the 3D settings manually on these monitors so it can be tweaked to a good level. From what I understand 3D is very dependent on the particular game your playing also, sux in some, good in others, regardless of the monitor you have.

I can't see how a standard LCD could beat an LED for clarity, unless the LED monitor was some horrible budget brand from a grocery store. LED Edges are more defined, which you just don't get with regular LCD, its a technical fact. The difference to me when upgrading from standard LCD (very good monitor) to LED was definitely noticeable. In fact I upgraded for that reason, to have LED, well also for more inputs and a bigger screen. We will have to agree to disagree there. :eyes:

 

I would say more moderate to large, even in windows movement was much smoother. You do notice more of a change with more fps of course ie. better GPU. Really depends on the person though, if you are the type of person who wouldn't notice a difference between no anti-aliasing and 4x anti-aliasing(not many people lol) in a game that properly supports it, then maybe 120hz is a waste of your money.

So true.