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PrMinisterGR
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Default 04-22-2017, 04:09 | posts: 6,354

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunami231 View Post
not the point I know it "can" be done I more intrested in can they do it without whole reinstalled of the OS and WITH need to download 4gb iso.

Cause the build "updates" reset settings upon upgrade among other issue that happen

I did the update to 3 pcs 1 worked fine, 2 had broke startmenu after the update, and the only one that updated fine was VM upgrade, the other 2 were on real hw.

Inplace upgrades still leave alot to be desired.
You have a point that there are still a lot of variations in the in-place upgrade system. They have improved the whole update process quite a lot for the desktop for Creators, took a lot of concepts from the phone which is quite robust with updates. We'll see in the next one I guess.
   
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Dch48
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Default 04-22-2017, 05:51 | posts: 1,725 | Location: Upstate NY

The creator's update did reset a couple of things but it was no big deal and only to be expected. It reverted my tweak to remove the arrows on my desktop icons and it turned System Restore back on. That was it and it was easily fixed. With the exception of the arrows tweak, I never do anything to the OS that can't be done through it's own internal settings.
   
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IcE
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Default 04-22-2017, 06:12 | posts: 10,593 | Location: Toledo

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Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
What features have ever been taken away?
Media Center, Desktop Gadgets, control over how you administer updates to your own machine, and they even took away the Win32 calculator. I actually used that still.

For a while, you could get updates to a usable setting using group policy, but now MS in their wise decision making process, decided that they would add a flag to specific updates that overrides any settings you have enabled unless you're using Enterprise. So if they want to force an update, they can. The only thing that I appreciate is that there's now a group policy option to disable the "active hours" nonsense. Now it can't log you off to update no matter what if enabled.

The creator update also curiously broke my Nvidia driver install. There was only one option in control panel after the update, which was stereoscopic 3d settings. Everything else was missing. I had to reinstall. And I also found out by doing that that the newest driver breaks support for Fallout 2 in DX9 render path, something I'm currently playing. Not Microsoft's fault directly, but annoying nonetheless lol
   
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Stormyandcold
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Default 04-22-2017, 06:13 | posts: 4,557 | Location: Wolverhampton, UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Valiant View Post
I'd bet that the number of holdouts on W7 would be significantly lower if they offered this to people. Microsoft has gotten rather daft in recent years .
Yeah, but, some of us W7 users are testing W10 as well. I turn it on now and again...
   
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Aura89
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Default 04-22-2017, 06:36 | posts: 5,874 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
Media Center, Desktop Gadgets, control over how you administer updates to your own machine, and they even took away the Win32 calculator. I actually used that still.
None of those have anything to do with Windows 10s updates, but rather windows 10 vs previous windows.

Last edited by Aura89; 04-22-2017 at 06:38.
   
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IcE
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Default 04-22-2017, 08:32 | posts: 10,593 | Location: Toledo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura89 View Post
None of those have anything to do with Windows 10s updates, but rather windows 10 vs previous windows.
The update thing I mentioned was directly related to this update. As I said, they changed it around so that they can force an update if they feel like it. I guess I should have said "I look forward to less control every update" because that would have made more sense.
   
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Default 04-22-2017, 09:25 | posts: 4,770 | Location: 0.0.0.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
The update thing I mentioned was directly related to this update. As I said, they changed it around so that they can force an update if they feel like it. I guess I should have said "I look forward to less control every update" because that would have made more sense.
It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again..
   
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Robbo9999
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Default 04-22-2017, 14:23 | posts: 498

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Originally Posted by KissSh0t View Post
It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again..
Ha, good one (Silence of the Lambs!).
   
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Default 04-22-2017, 14:58 | posts: 13

Huge LOL....

Ubuntu does scheduled releases on April and October (Ubuntu XX.4 and XX.10) since ages ago so MS felt they should do the same cuz it's popular (?)

Just a gut feeling but this probably is yet another marketing decision with decremental effects for the already crappy win 10 ecosystem. Why? Because I seriously doubt the teams at MS are used to this work cycles and Win10 in itself is not properly designed for such rolling updates.

Ubuntu can do this since Linux in itself is a big collection of more or less "independent" and "interchangeable" pieces. But windows was always a more monolithic and coupled OS, if they force updates things will undoubtedly start (continue) breaking for lot of users.

Last edited by TieSKey; 04-22-2017 at 15:55.
   
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Dch48
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Default 04-22-2017, 19:52 | posts: 1,725 | Location: Upstate NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
Media Center, Desktop Gadgets, control over how you administer updates to your own machine, and they even took away the Win32 calculator. I actually used that still.

For a while, you could get updates to a usable setting using group policy, but now MS in their wise decision making process, decided that they would add a flag to specific updates that overrides any settings you have enabled unless you're using Enterprise. So if they want to force an update, they can. The only thing that I appreciate is that there's now a group policy option to disable the "active hours" nonsense. Now it can't log you off to update no matter what if enabled.

The creator update also curiously broke my Nvidia driver install. There was only one option in control panel after the update, which was stereoscopic 3d settings. Everything else was missing. I had to reinstall. And I also found out by doing that that the newest driver breaks support for Fallout 2 in DX9 render path, something I'm currently playing. Not Microsoft's fault directly, but annoying nonetheless lol
Media Center was always an option, and I have a calculator app that works just fine and came with Windows 10. Gadgets were always silly and unnecessary. I have no problems with the update procedure. I have yet to be logged off or have the machine restarted without choosing to do it myself and I have the Home Edition.

The only thing I don't like is that this Creator's Update has removed all links to the old style Control Panel except in the Windows System folder in the Start Menu. I just pinned it to my Start menu. It used to be in the win+x (or right click Start button) menu but not any more. Having said that, The Control Panel is getting less needed all the time as they keep adding it's functions to the settings options.

Yes there have been problems with Nvidia and their drivers but for AMD users, it's been smooth sailing. None of my 3 machines using Win 10 have Nvidia. Two have AMD and the other one uses Intel drivers. When I think about it, in my now 18 years of being on line and gaming with 5 different computers, I have never had a computer with Nvidia graphics.

Last edited by Dch48; 04-22-2017 at 19:56.
   
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Clouseau
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Default 04-22-2017, 20:40 | posts: 1,586

Releasing two major updates a year is all fine and well. More interested in when or if these updates are going to stop being free and what they would be charging for these updates when they stop being free. Yearly subscription that guarantees at least two major updates? This type of question is more important to me as a home user than how often they will be upgrading the OS.
   
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Dch48
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Default 04-23-2017, 01:39 | posts: 1,725 | Location: Upstate NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Releasing two major updates a year is all fine and well. More interested in when or if these updates are going to stop being free and what they would be charging for these updates when they stop being free. Yearly subscription that guarantees at least two major updates? This type of question is more important to me as a home user than how often they will be upgrading the OS.
They're not going to stop being free. Everything Microsoft has ever said about Windows 10 confirms that.
   
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IcE
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Default 04-23-2017, 06:51 | posts: 10,593 | Location: Toledo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
Media Center was always an option, and I have a calculator app that works just fine and came with Windows 10. Gadgets were always silly and unnecessary. I have no problems with the update procedure. I have yet to be logged off or have the machine restarted without choosing to do it myself and I have the Home Edition.

The only thing I don't like is that this Creator's Update has removed all links to the old style Control Panel except in the Windows System folder in the Start Menu. I just pinned it to my Start menu. It used to be in the win+x (or right click Start button) menu but not any more. Having said that, The Control Panel is getting less needed all the time as they keep adding it's functions to the settings options.

Yes there have been problems with Nvidia and their drivers but for AMD users, it's been smooth sailing. None of my 3 machines using Win 10 have Nvidia. Two have AMD and the other one uses Intel drivers. When I think about it, in my now 18 years of being on line and gaming with 5 different computers, I have never had a computer with Nvidia graphics.
Oh right, I forgot about the control panel thing. That really irritated me since I'm used to going there with the win+x menu. The dumbest thing about it is that the settings menu is a horrendous mess, with settings not being where you would expect them to be, and many things still requiring the control panel to adjust. So why remove that? It's like an intentional hand slap. "We don't want you using the control panel, despite it being a better way to adjust most settings". Lol MS
   
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No1True
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Default 04-23-2017, 07:37 | posts: 113

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
Oh right, I forgot about the control panel thing. That really irritated me since I'm used to going there with the win+x menu. The dumbest thing about it is that the settings menu is a horrendous mess, with settings not being where you would expect them to be, and many things still requiring the control panel to adjust. So why remove that? It's like an intentional hand slap. "We don't want you using the control panel, despite it being a better way to adjust most settings". Lol MS
Same thing about the browsers. Somehow ALL browsers ended up with IDENTICAL messed up settings navigation.. scattered everywhere with disabled toolbars and everything. well.. chrome is the worst by far yet loved the most by dumb people. You cant find 80% settings in chrome that are in firefox opera etc etc...

Its just a trend really a bad one. :|
   
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Zooke
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Default 04-23-2017, 08:59 | posts: 75 | Location: West Midlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singleton99 View Post
Been doing a little reading about Windows LTSB compared to the retail version for gaming and so far it would seem that the difference in performance while gaming is negligible,
as window will put processes into a suspended status and most of the background apps when not in use .

Only had a five minute read .

Would be nice if we could see gaming benchmarks between the two different versions.
I don't have comparisons but games work just fine for me. I only installed 10 because I wanted to play Forza but liked it so much I ended up using it more and more instead of 7.
Logically, without all of the normal W10 telemetry and other guff, things must run faster.
   
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anticupidon
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Default 04-23-2017, 10:10 | posts: 2,837 | Location: far,far from home

One can assume that the LTBS version will receive the same treatment ?


   
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LesserHellspawn
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Default 04-23-2017, 10:56 | posts: 550

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
Media Center, Desktop Gadgets, control over how you administer updates to your own machine, and they even took away the Win32 calculator. I actually used that still.
I have my desktop gadgets, I have my start menu. Running the CU on my 2015 main machine, my 2013 laptop, my 2008 old machine, and so far all is well. I do eventually expect driver problems down the road. I hope I can then freeze an affected machine on the last working version without being forced to upgrade.
   
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lucidus
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Default 04-23-2017, 16:49 | posts: 9,733 | Location: Dobuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by anticupidon View Post
One can assume that the LTBS version will receive the same treatment ?
Next one is due in 2019. With LTSB at least you won't have to put up with MS' frequent upgrades unless you really need a feature from current branch.
   
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PrMinisterGR
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Default 04-23-2017, 17:26 | posts: 6,354

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
Media Center, Desktop Gadgets, control over how you administer updates to your own machine, and they even took away the Win32 calculator. I actually used that still.
Media Center and Desktop Gadgets had third party software doing it better than Microsoft (see Kodi and Rainmeter for much better results), so it makes sense they were discontinued. You can also control UWP apps with an Xbox controller and a very nice predictive on screen keyboard.

You can control updates using Group Policy:

 Click to show spoiler



The calculator argument is... I just have no words. You're basically complaining because it doesn't look exactly the same. There is no comparison between them. The new can can turn from a copy of the old one:

 Click to show spoiler



to something similar to the old one but with memory/history tabs that are VERY handy:

 Click to show spoiler



to seventeen other different modes.

 Click to show spoiler





Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
For a while, you could get updates to a usable setting using group policy, but now MS in their wise decision making process, decided that they would add a flag to specific updates that overrides any settings you have enabled unless you're using Enterprise. So if they want to force an update, they can. The only thing that I appreciate is that there's now a group policy option to disable the "active hours" nonsense. Now it can't log you off to update no matter what if enabled.
This is the correct behavior for zero-day exploits. Nobody here is old enough to remember Blaster I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE View Post
The creator update also curiously broke my Nvidia driver install. There was only one option in control panel after the update, which was stereoscopic 3d settings. Everything else was missing. I had to reinstall. And I also found out by doing that that the newest driver breaks support for Fallout 2 in DX9 render path, something I'm currently playing. Not Microsoft's fault directly, but annoying nonetheless lol
That's your NVIDIA driver. AMD drivers have similar issues with some DX12 games actually (artifacting in Forza Horizon 3 etc). Does your card support WDDM 2.2 with the current driver?

In a more serious tone: If you require such absolute control over your system, your best bet is a rolling release source code based distro. That's Gentoo basically. You can literally control everything and freeze at any point you want, with nobody telling you what to do. Just don't expect this from a closed source platform with 5+ billion installations around the world, and a company's name hanging around the system's reputation. Microsoft was considered a joke for how exploited its OS and browser were, and now they have basically turned things around. I can't see them stopping forced security updates for any reason. In their place, it's the only sane strategy.

Last edited by PrMinisterGR; 04-23-2017 at 17:29.
   
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  (#45)
Dch48
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Default 04-23-2017, 23:07 | posts: 1,725 | Location: Upstate NY

Quote:
That's your NVIDIA driver. AMD drivers have similar issues with some DX12 games actually (artifacting in Forza Horizon 3 etc). Does your card support WDDM 2.2 with the current driver?
On the support forums for FH3 they recommend not using any AMD driver past 17.2. I never did update past that so I have no issues.

The fault lies with Nvidia and AMD, not Microsoft.

And yes, the Win 10 calculator app is FAR superior to anything before it. The mail app works well too except that I have not figured out how to filter junk mail with it so I still use Outlook 2007. If anyone knows how to filter mail in the app, I'd like to hear from you.

Last edited by Dch48; 04-23-2017 at 23:11.
   
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