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  (#26)
Reddoguk
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Default 07-17-2017, 19:55 | posts: 1,278 | Location: In my house

Does anyone even care anymore about these new chips? Lets all just buy a TR and be done with it.

TR will last you a few years at least ^^. I mean come on who isn't already dreaming of a TR/X399 combo. Super Computer @Home basically.
   
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  (#27)
Fox2232
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Default 07-17-2017, 19:59 | posts: 5,514 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddoguk View Post
Does anyone even care anymore about these new chips? Lets all just buy a TR and be done with it.

TR will last you a few years at least ^^. I mean come on who isn't already dreaming of a TR/X399 combo. Super Computer @Home basically.
If I was into CF, I would say yes. But No CF, no need for special TR features. and core count itself is overkill for me.

When I do productivity stuff I much more appreciate ram amount and HDD read speed.
Both of those are plenty on AM4.
   
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  (#28)
Loophole35
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:04 | posts: 8,300 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddoguk View Post
Does anyone even care anymore about these new chips? Lets all just buy a TR and be done with it.

TR will last you a few years at least ^^. I mean come on who isn't already dreaming of a TR/X399 combo. Super Computer @Home basically.
If they release a 8c/16t TR I become more intrigued but $800 for a CPU I would never fully utilize seems like an awful waste of money no?

8 core at $499 with X399 MB at $270 would fit the bill since you will be forced to basically drop $300 on RAM.
   
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  (#29)
schmidtbag
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:11 | posts: 1,769 | Location: MA, USA

I've wanted a 6-core i5 for at least 4 years. Such a product would've been a best seller every year they made it. You're too late, Intel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddoguk View Post
Does anyone even care anymore about these new chips? Lets all just buy a TR and be done with it.

TR will last you a few years at least ^^. I mean come on who isn't already dreaming of a TR/X399 combo. Super Computer @Home basically.
There are Guru3D readers who already have or are planning to get X299 platforms. There are legitimately good reasons to get X299, though I personally feel Threadripper is a much, much more practical and logical choice.


EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
8 core at $499 with X399 MB at $270 would fit the bill since you will be forced to basically drop $300 on RAM.
Based on the way you said that, it seems you don't really want the extra memory channels, but feel like you should since they're there and otherwise that's wasted potential. So why not just go a Ryzen 7 and not worry about it? Need the PCIe lanes?
For the record, I do think an 8c/16t socket TR4 would be a good "low-end" product. Ryzen 7s make sense in a lot of cases, but some workloads need more memory bandwidth or PCIe lanes than others, but not necessarily more threads.

Last edited by schmidtbag; 07-17-2017 at 20:26.
   
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  (#30)
wavetrex
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:17 | posts: 121 | Location: Nederlanden

They could have put 6-cores out on the mainstream market many years ago, during the age of Ivy Bridge or Haswell (@22nm), but noooo... more 4-cores, and they would still release 4-cores with 3-5% increments ad infinitum if AMD didn't woke up.

But ok, it's good to have options !
Better late than never.
   
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  (#31)
Hiikeri
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:22 | posts: 31 | Location: Finland

Sounds good on my 24/7 cooling system, SS Phase change.

Should run de-lidded i7-8700K (6/12) @5.0Ghz...

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post
I do think an 8c/16t socket TR4 would be a good "low-end" product.
When 8C CPUs come to "low-end" product.

Last edited by Hiikeri; 07-17-2017 at 20:24.
   
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  (#32)
Loophole35
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:25 | posts: 8,300 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post
Based on the way you said that, it seems you don't really want the extra memory channels, but feel like you should since they're there and otherwise that's wasted potential. So why not just go a Ryzen 7 and not worry about it? Need the PCIe lanes?
For the record, I do think an 8c/16t socket TR4 would be a good "low-end" product. Some workloads need more memory bandwidth or PCIe lanes than others.
I just fear that the poor 1080 performance will creep into 1440+ resolution with AM4. Seeing as memory bandwidth appears to alleviate some of the gaming performance issues I would most definitely want to utilize all 4 memory channels. My comment on the RAM was more at the recent hike in DDR4 prices.
   
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  (#33)
schmidtbag
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:32 | posts: 1,769 | Location: MA, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiikeri View Post
When 8C CPUs come to "low-end" product.
Haha, I put it in quotes for a reason. Considering the roadmap for socket TR4 involves Epycs involving 32c/64t, 8c is relatively small. When you consider there will be dual-socket TR4s, 8c is really small. Not sure if quad sockets will be available, but that will certainly be interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
I just fear that the poor 1080 performance will creep into 1440+ resolution with AM4. Seeing as memory bandwidth appears to alleviate some of the gaming performance issues I would most definitely want to utilize all 4 memory channels. My comment on the RAM was more at the recent hike in DDR4 prices.
Makes sense. Though unless you've got a display above 90Hz, I don't think the performance issues are really going to matter that much at 1440p+. Also after all the patches, most of the performance issues aren't so glaring anymore.
And yeah, I understood your point about RAM prices - if you want good Ryzen-compatible RAM, you're going to be paying a lot due to inflation. You don't have to buy all the RAM at once though. Just get what you need and wait for prices to die down.

Last edited by schmidtbag; 07-17-2017 at 20:36.
   
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  (#34)
Loophole35
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:36 | posts: 8,300 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post

Makes sense. Though unless you've got a display above 90Hz, I don't think the performance issues are really going to matter that much at 1440p+. Also after all the patches, most of the performance issues aren't so glaring anymore.
And yeah, I understood your point about RAM prices - if you want good Ryzen-compatible RAM, you're going to be paying a lot due to inflation.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...review,31.html
It kinda is showing up at 1440 now with a 1080ti. And my display is set to 100Hz most of the time. I am definitely starting to see my 2600k's age with this GPU.
   
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  (#35)
aKiss
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:42 | posts: 22

how did they managed to get that fast these products ready ?
did they "glued together" two 4c 8t cpus and disabled 2 dies ?
   
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  (#36)
schmidtbag
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:46 | posts: 1,769 | Location: MA, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by aKiss View Post
how did they managed to get that fast these products ready ?
did they "glued together" two 4c 8t cpus and disabled 2 dies ?
They probably took one of their existing Xeon parts, took away any extra features (like cache), and added OC support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...review,31.html
It kinda is showing up at 1440 now with a 1080ti. And my display is set to 100Hz most of the time. I am definitely starting to see my 2600k's age with this GPU.
The 5960X also has a 300MHz difference. That's a 7% difference. Most of the tests you linked to are less than 7% slower, with Deus Ex and Tomb Raider being pretty awful exceptions.

Personally, I would recommend sticking with Intel if you want 100Hz+. But, I guess we'll see what comes of socket TR4. The extra memory channels could help with game performance (though the extra CCXs I suspect will worsen it), and maybe there will some day be an 8c/16t model.
   
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  (#37)
Loophole35
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:51 | posts: 8,300 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post
The 5960X also has a 300MHz difference. That's a 7% difference. Most of the tests you linked to are less than 7% slower, with Deus Ex and Tomb Raider being pretty awful exceptions.

Personally, I would recommend sticking with Intel if you want 100Hz+. But, I guess we'll see what comes of socket TR4. The extra memory channels could help with game performance (though the extra CCXs I suspect will worsen it), and maybe there will some day be an 8c/16t model.
I just don't think Intel deserves my money this time around. I'm too damn conflicted. I hope TR matches Intel in gaming. I may pay a premium over getting CL.
   
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  (#38)
D3M1G0D
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Default 07-17-2017, 20:58 | posts: 100 | Location: Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
I just don't think Intel deserves my money this time around. I'm too damn conflicted. I hope TR matches Intel in gaming. I may pay a premium over getting CL.
Eh? Why would anyone use TR for gaming?
   
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  (#39)
xrodney
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Default 07-17-2017, 21:04 | posts: 120 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

Quote:
Originally Posted by H83 View Post
This CPUs are only interesting to me in case they can be used with Z270 MBs so they can provide a future upgrade path. Otherwise i donīt care.
Then you are out of luck, it will be the same socket but require a new chipset.
   
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  (#40)
xrodney
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Default 07-17-2017, 21:06 | posts: 120 | Location: EU, CZ, Brno

Quote:
Originally Posted by D3M1G0D View Post
Eh? Why would anyone use TR for gaming?
I am considering 12c TR as well for gaming but only because I could use more PCI-e lanes for non-gamming stuff.
   
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  (#41)
Loophole35
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Default 07-17-2017, 21:14 | posts: 8,300 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by D3M1G0D View Post
Eh? Why would anyone use TR for gaming?
If you had noticed my previous post I'm hoping for a 8core 16 thread TR. I would use that for gaming if it beats Intel in gaming. Otherwise might as well limp this Sandy Bridge along another year or two.
   
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  (#42)
D3M1G0D
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Default 07-17-2017, 21:33 | posts: 100 | Location: Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodney View Post
I am considering 12c TR as well for gaming but only because I could use more PCI-e lanes for non-gamming stuff.
I see. I'm planning on getting a 16c TR for grid computing. I don't ever plan on gaming on it - I have my Ryzen system for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
If you had noticed my previous post I'm hoping for a 8core 16 thread TR. I would use that for gaming if it beats Intel in gaming. Otherwise might as well limp this Sandy Bridge along another year or two.
I dunno, I think the chance of a 8c TR is slim to none. Even if they cobbled one together, I doubt it will beat Intel in gaming - I think they'd need to clock way higher to do that.
   
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  (#43)
TLD LARS
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Default 07-17-2017, 21:52 | posts: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by RzrTrek View Post
I couldn't have said it better myself, why spend twice the amount of money on i7's for a minimal performance gain in games or Ryzen that can barley overclock?
It depends on what Ryzen you buy and what you do with it.
I can overclock my 1700 500MHz and still have a lower TDP then a stock I7 7740K.
The Intel I9 does not really overclock more then the R7 without getting crazy thermals and a I7 7740K overclocked to 5200Mhz is not beating a stock R7 1700 in full multi thread anyway.

my R7 1700 overclock was done with powerstage 0 set to 3500mhz and auto voltage, running prime at max heat, TDP measured with hardwaremonitor max cpu power.
   
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Default 07-17-2017, 23:23 | posts: 51 | Location: canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post
Haha, I put it in quotes for a reason. Considering the roadmap for socket TR4 involves Epycs involving 32c/64t, 8c is relatively small. When you consider there will be dual-socket TR4s, 8c is really small. Not sure if quad sockets will be available, but that will certainly be interesting.


Makes sense. Though unless you've got a display above 90Hz, I don't think the performance issues are really going to matter that much at 1440p+. Also after all the patches, most of the performance issues aren't so glaring anymore.
And yeah, I understood your point about RAM prices - if you want good Ryzen-compatible RAM, you're going to be paying a lot due to inflation. You don't have to buy all the RAM at once though. Just get what you need and wait for prices to die down.
ram prise is ridiculous atm, when i bought my gskillz kit ddr4 3200 with my 6600k it was 50 $ lower than what it is now, altho its d-die memory i can still oc it to 3733mhz with my kaby lake. i bought the kit at the end of 2015
   
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  (#45)
Camaxide
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Default 07-18-2017, 00:19 | posts: 21 | Location: Norway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silva View Post
So where are all the fanboys saying 4 cores for gaming is enough?
An i5 with 6 cores? How intel has changed this year...
My 2500k is still running strong, haven't even pushed more than 4.0Ghz on it.
Wont upgrade for less than 6c/16t and everyone knows i7 are overpriced BS so I know where's my money going (for now).
Also, that 8400 at 2.8Ghz...unless it turbos to 4Ghz, it will be in trouble.
Fanboy or not they would for the most part be right. Games in general runs better on 4 fast cores than on more than 4, slower cores.
These 6 core processors are for instance not going to hold up against a 7700k in gaming, since they are way to slow per clock.. Even a threadripper won't touch the 7700k in gaming performance. Though the threadripper will obliterate the 7700k in almost every other task than gaming.
   
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  (#46)
Alien_Zero
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Default 07-18-2017, 00:22 | posts: 305 | Location: Amman

And this kids why AMD deserve our hard earned money this time!
   
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  (#47)
tsunami231
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Default 07-18-2017, 01:08 | posts: 7,450 | Location: USA

unless they show me six core for less then i payed for 6700k they still charing to much
   
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  (#48)
schmidtbag
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Default 07-18-2017, 01:41 | posts: 1,769 | Location: MA, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loophole35 View Post
... I'm hoping for a 8core 16 thread TR. I would use that for gaming if it beats Intel in gaming. Otherwise might as well limp this Sandy Bridge along another year or two.
Sandy Bridge is still good even by today's standards. I'd say you're better off waiting for "Zen 2", since AMD will have got most of the bugs figured out. The first gen of an architecture is always a lot worse than it could be (which is promising so far). AMD had Ryzen so rushed they needed frequent BIOS updates and RAM issues. Clearly, it isn't as polished as they would've liked. I'd have waited for the next gen myself but my old gaming PC was dying, and involved a FX 6300 so it wasn't that great to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawnys View Post
ram prise is ridiculous atm, when i bought my gskillz kit ddr4 3200 with my 6600k it was 50 $ lower than what it is now, altho its d-die memory i can still oc it to 3733mhz with my kaby lake. i bought the kit at the end of 2015
Hahaha My G.Skill 3000MHz RAM is currently over 2x the price I paid back in November 2016. I paid somewhere around $80 (including shipping) and currently it is $163 without shipping.
   
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  (#49)
sykozis
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Default 07-18-2017, 02:03 | posts: 19,942 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaxide View Post
Fanboy or not they would for the most part be right. Games in general runs better on 4 fast cores than on more than 4, slower cores.
These 6 core processors are for instance not going to hold up against a 7700k in gaming, since they are way to slow per clock.. Even a threadripper won't touch the 7700k in gaming performance. Though the threadripper will obliterate the 7700k in almost every other task than gaming.
Depends on the resolution.... At 4K, they're all pretty damn equal. In any case, for the cost of an i7 7700K alone, you can buy an R5 1600 and motherboard rather easily...and have an overall more capable system.


   
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  (#50)
Ricepudding
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Default 07-18-2017, 02:22 | posts: 104

After seeing sky lake x my interest is coming to these.

My only concern is the quite low base clock, I'd assume the turbo would be around 4.0-4.2ghz at that point. So unless the ipc has dramatically increased this might actually come out slower than a kabylake stock. Which would kinda suck, had nothing decent worth upgrading the 2700k @4.6ghz too.

Would be nice if they bumped up the pcie lanes too, 24/28 would be nice but it's intel so I'm sure they will stick to 16'sadly
   
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