Input lag decreasing, dpc latency decreasing.

Hello i've got some questions, if this is wrong section please move this thread to the right place

Have you guys got some tips/tricks/programs/ to decrease input lag, dpc latency, to got more smoothers games etc? I read on this thread : h_ttp://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=405360&page=9 (delete _ between http)

This tool will help, some users write they got better perfmormance in some games. Have you got download link to this tool (cuz site needed login and password :/)

And i also tried HPET but only in windows cuz i haven't got this option in bios.. My moobo is asus p5e vm se.

On nvidia i use Display - no scaling (less input lag i read it somewhere) Have you got some tools/tweaks/tricks, something to get better performance/less input lag?


I tried MSImode and it works (on humanbenchmark reaction time i've got better results and games run more smooth) i want to know is there something like this, something to help with input lag.

I also want to try HPET enable/disable but i haven't got this option in bios my mobo - asus p5e vm-se. (Maybe its something like hidden settings in bios?)


IN DPCLATENCY checker i've got 150-200 US average :/

And in latencymon highest execution got nvlddmkm.sys and notskrnl.exe

It looks like this : ht_tp://scr.hu/2ykh/l7d07 (remove _ on http)
and this : ht_tp://scr.hu/2ykh/581vr (remove _ on http)

Have you guys got any advices,tips,tricks,tweaks,programs,something?

 

Prepare yourself!

(Your links are broken, only use imgur please. All other image hosts suck)
As for that tool... don't use it. His code is "impossible" what he claims is "impossible" perhaps A FEW of the things he's saying have some weight, but the fact that he's lying to make his work seem way more then it is is a HUGE red flag. He's got some issues I think. The fact that nobody can prove the tool does anything after 9 pages is enough of an answer for me. Don't use it.

That doesn't mean you can't improve your system a freaking ton though!

The best single piece of advice I can give is: Less is more.


But this is a tech forum! Going in depth is what we do.

My goal is optimization of performance and latency, but also configuration! This is going to be a complete redo of your habits and computing so let's try to start fresh. So if you have any startup programs, disable them for now. Not that you CAN'T have any, but for now "zero" is a good number to start with.

Uninstall all unnecessary programs. If you have even a single software utility from a motherboard or GPU manufacturer you should be ashamed of yourself. Yes, that's a bit harsh. But it's all bloatware and garbage that will only get in the way. :bang: You want low latency? These poorly coded programs will increase latency not only on a microsecond level, not only on a millisecond level, but enough to measure it in SECONDS If they conflict with drivers as they often do.

But enough "philosophy" about how to keep a computer. I'll get to the actual stuff you want to do.



• First of all DPC latency checker results are invalid for Windows 8 and above due to the tickless kernel and other deep OS changes.
Use latencymon exclusively for monitoring DPC latency, hard faults, etc.
In addition, get task manager and enable monitoring of all logical threads/cores (right click the overall graph for the option) and also change update speed to high so we can see spikes a little more easily. If you want to get serious about CPU thread monitoring you could get Perfmonitor2

• Now that we can see what's going on a little better, it's time to start removing sh'it and making changes.
Go get Geek Uninstaller portable and uninstall EVERYTHING YOU DO NOT USE REGULARLY. Don't worry about VC++ redist or any runtimes, we'll sort those out later. If you're on the fence about removing something... remove it! You can always reinstall later if you need it. Now is the time to go to the trouble because this will have the greatest impact.

Notice that Geek uninstaller removes the leftovers. It does a better job then Revo uninstaller and all the others I've tried, plus it's not blatant bloatware like IOBIT has become...

Once you're done removing stuff, go back and REALLY remove the rest of the stuff you didn't want to. It's for your own good. Java and flash have got to go. Any software that's outdated must go as well. Hell, if you want you can just reinstall instead as it's probably faster than doing the above depending on your system and will clean up corruption and all sorts of issues. If you haven't reinstalled in a year+ I'd say do so. Either way, (if you reinstalled or not) continue below:


• I assume you know about DDU already, but if not it's time for DDU! Run it in safe mode and uninstall your drivers, then instead of reinstalling from the package, extract it with 7-zip, then delete all folders except Display.Driver, NV12, and PhysX. HOWEVER, if you don't use any games that specifically use Nvidia PhysX, you should delete the PhysX folder as you will have zero use for it and it WILL increase DPC latency by a small amount!
It should look like this, give or take PhysX:



• After you've got your driver installed set these settings:

The reason I chose Quality for Texture filtering instead of High Quality is because no matter how hard I look and how much I press my FACE TO THE SCREEN, trying to find a difference in quality between the two in game... there is no visual quality difference.

However, there IS a performance improvement of about 4-8%!! At least that's the case in Elite: Dangerous inside a station hanger getting about 62 >67fps on a modded 770. With that game and other games that do not have Anisotropic filtering, make sure you set x16 in NVCP. It really helps a lot and there is no performance hit for Anisotropic filtering after.... 2004?


• Ok, the next part is straight up cleaning. Go grab CCleaner portable BUT, use it with CCenhancer.
Put them in the same folder, then click download on ccenhancer, then open ccleaner and the applications list will populate with a ton of stuff. It may take 30 seconds to a minute or more to populate. Hit trim winapi in CCenhancer before opening CCleaner to avoid that.

In CCleaner, select everything except wipe free space for removal. The icons for the categories work as checkboxes, so click on those instead 500 boxes individually.
Analyze and clean, you must close the browser to do so properly though, so make sure to bookmark this to get back quick.

Now do the registry cleaning bit, do it three times in a row, don't make backups. They're pointless for that. (Really) After fixing all go to the startup thing and uncheck everything, scheduled tasks are also startup items. There can be two types in Windows 8+ AFAIK, but they both work the same. Disable all those. Don't delete the entries unless they're junk, you may want to re enable some.


• Next get ADWcleaner and run that to make sure you're free of malware. It'll probably pick up a few things, no biggie though. Then it'll close all applications and restart you without more than a quick popup box that you won't read as warning so this is your warning.


• Make sure page file is set to automatically manage. I used to disable because I have more than enough RAM for what I do, but in reality it's not so simple, there's virtual ram and commit charge, etc... I honestly need to read up on it before giving more advice, but I've had games crash and event viewer says it's from low virtual memory which is from not having a page file, plus the system manages it best... so for now that's my answer on that.


• OK! Now that the BORING PART is done, we can actually to do the cool stuff! (OK it's all cool to me, this is the only thing I do lol :bed: )

One of the biggest things to increase latency is drivers!
However, even inactive drivers and devices can mess with active ones! For instance, an old mouse driver can screw up current mouse movement in particular cases. Seriously.

To get rid of unused devices and drivers, get Device Remover.
Install, run and go Display mode > Show only hidden/detached devices.
Check the entire tree, then uncheck anything to do with printers or you will be reinstalling your printer drivers. :cussing: I actually recommend doing so and making sure you get the bare bones drivers as anything with a utility usually has massive hard faults or creates extra processes or services you don't need to F everything up.
But if you don't want to uninstall your printer, (since it's not on it's detected as disconnected) uncheck the three categories with "print" in the name, software devices, then imaging devices.
Now click remove all checked, yes, yes, etc. And it'll do it's thing.
It looks really scary at first, but it's just things that WERE connected, but are not anymore.


• Now before you reboot go into device manager (the regular one) go to system devices, and disable HIGH PRECISION EVENT TIMER
If you had it in bios you'd still need to do it there too.

Now run this in admin command prompt:

Now HPET is correctly disabled and the platformclock is configured right as well! (Just as important as HPET)


• Now disable unnessiciary services using this guide (what OS are you running?)
http://www.askvg.com/windows-7-services-that-can-be-safely-set-to-manual/
http://www.askvg.com/windows-8-serv...round-services-to-improve-system-performance/
http://www.askvg.com/beginners-guide-to-configure-windows-10-services/


• Last thing before you reboot, make sure your bios is updated to 0303!
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5EVM_SE/HelpDesk_Download/
If this wipes out your OC, that's ok. You aren't getting out of here alive without redoing it anyway! lol You better get some fuc'king heastsinks for that pathetic VRM of yours too! :flip2: A fan blowing across the CPU socket will help a LOT as well. Ideally you could do both!


• OK now it's time to update drivers! This is without question the biggest improvement to system latency. Drivers are what cause it, and updated versions almost always work better (not talking GPU here, those are another story!)
Go and get Snappy Driver Installer. This is the only Driver updating utility on planet earth you can trust. Install everything updated for your system except GPU and possibly audio (install audio drives at first, but if there's software for your chipset then uninstall and go back to MS stock for that as it will be better for latency by a long shot).


• Now for some system memory optimization. Merge this (create a file called Memory Tweaks.txt, paste, then rename Memory Tweaks.reg)


• Next, go here to update Microsoft Visual C++ Runtimes and .NET http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=393405
Applications that use .NET will actually gain performance from this.


• Reboot!


• Run SFCFix


• Reboot again.


• Now simply wait 5 minutes. Don't click anything. Take a screenshot of your task manager on the CPU tab and the memory tab, upload to imgur and post here. I want to see where we're at.
Check DPC latency on latencymon as well. It shouldn't be going above 150uS peak even on a really shi'tty system. I'd expect we're easily below 100 now, perhaps around 20-50uS?
RAM usage should be below 1300mb, CPU usage at a flat 0% for the whole graph, threads should be below 500. Processes should be below 38.


• I'm curious about your exact hardware and software config. SSD? HDD? RAM? Exact CPU? etc. Don't bother typing it, there's simply too much info to tell it manually.
Instead create a report with AIDA64, then upload it to mediafire or mega.co.nz and post back with the link here (these are some of the few trustable file sharing sites). This is SUUUUUPER important for me to help more.

Depending on your hardware, there is a ton more we can do. If HDD, there are better defrag utilities and methods, if SSD, performance can be improved there too. Depending on what the report says, you might be able to get significantly better drive performance by switching to another SATA port on a different chipset. GPU and MB bios modifications could be a possibility as well (more likely GPU).

Full system overclocking - ESPECIALLY RAM is something I think would be a massive benefit too. And there are probably bios settings that could use tweaking as well.

I'm saving one really massive tweak for after your reply as motivation. This tweak will cut down on boot time by a few seconds on an SSD and the time it takes for everything to settle down by a couple MINUTES. For an HDD, damn I can't even imagine how much faster you'll boot!

But I'm not telling until you reply! I just typed for two hours! Now you gotta put in the work. I want to see how it turns out! Good luck!!! :thumbup:

 

Hello, thanks for you reply. I do all steps you write and this is results :

http://i.imgur.com/WiEyXPE.jpg <-- task manager ss

http://i.imgur.com/OidVnf1.jpg <-- latencymon main tab before

http://i.imgur.com/JAAbq3A.jpg <-- latencymon driver tab before

http://i.imgur.com/1P0S6vd.jpg <-- dpc latency checker before

http://i.imgur.com/Yv1l74S.jpg <-- dpc latency checker after

http://i.imgur.com/V3DE9eS.jpg <-- latencymon driver tab after

http://i.imgur.com/nnNAw3c.jpg <-- latencymon main tab after

http://www.mediafire.com/download/7i7vat5oo29ro46/raport.txt <-- aida raport

 

Why on earth are you inserting underscores in the http part of the urls?

 

:thumbup: Excellent job! I'm very glad to see the effort and the AIDA64 report, that helps a lot even though it's not in html (easier to read in HTML when you open it in a browser) But I got what I needed!

There is certainly a difference... however, I had hoped to see more improvement from this. :3eyes: Hmmm...


I haven't slept in 27 hours so forgive me if this post is not as good as the last.


I hesitate to say "it's your hardware" because it really shouldn't be that bad just because of older hardware... I've got an Athlon II X4 630 overclocked from 2.8GHz > 3.5GHz,running the same timings DDR2 as you. Yet the DPC latency is less than half of what you see... It's true that the Athlon beats your CPU by about 20% stock vs stock... but other than that the only major differences are that I'm using an SSD, and Windows 8.1.

Perhaps You could do a super cheap CPU upgade with one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201536895885?
Nice boost, plus going from 4MB cache to 12MB cache will bring insane benefits to latency and overall system smoothness! http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core2-Quad-Q8200-vs-Intel-Xeon-E5450/m3754vsm5890

However I'm guessing the Xeon is locked to FSB overclocking only and the Q8200 can use the multiplier so if you did upgrade you wouldn't want a Xeon, you'd want something else that could overclock. Still, $30 for a $969 CPU?! 41% upgrade? That is pretty hard to turn down!


Anyway, there are a number of things that are likely dragging down DPC latency though.

I noticed a ton of latency caused by SATA and USB specifically. These usually cause a lot of DPC latency. You can only help it so much.

I would switch your SATA drive to the main set of ports if there are separate sets (sometimes indicating Intel chipset vs worse performing 3rd party chipset).
Then disable ALL extra features and ports you aren't using, like if you aren't' using the PATA on that board, disable it in bios if you can. Don't disable any of your USB 2.0 ports though, it doesn't really help. Make sure you have the power saving setting correct too. I Don't know anything about what they would be on your chipset and CPU. You'll just have to mess around in the bios.


Once thing I am wondering about is why you are still on Nvidia's 356.45 when 364.51 is the latest?

I also see that the last time you installed drivers you installed the other things with them. ALl those nvidia based services run in the background and increase DPC latency... you have all of them, even the one for 3d vision which you don't need. (You don't need any, just the basic driver).

Make sure you use DDU to uninstall and clean your current Nvidia driver, and when you reinstall, extract the driver exe with 7-zip and delete all the useless folders as I pictured earlier before installing.

Beyond that I'm afraid the list starts to thin out... You could always upgrade to Windows 8.1. It's not as nice looking as 7 and it has it's issues, but once you remove all the garbage it comes with it's basically Windows 7 +20FPS. I use it for the performance. Windows 10 has little to no performance improvement and honestly is even harder for me to use than 8.1 so I can't recommend it. The start menu is ever worse somehow IMO.

Oh yes I almost forgot, the secret tweak I was holding out on you!

Go to Administrative tools > Performance monitor (NOT resource monitor).
Then Data collector sets > Event trace sessions > ReadyBOOT (not readyboost!!!) then Stop condition > Maximum size 128 (enable)

Here's the thread on what this does! http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=318837

You should also my tool Batch Update Uninstaller a run as well. Me and another member of OCN made it. It uninstalls all the spying updates from windows as well as some updates that break things. http://www.overclock.net/t/1572731/batch-update-uninstaller-uninstall-forced-win10-telemetry/0_100

Sorry, I would help more now, but I'm so tired I can't keep my eyes open anymore.

Good luck! Let me know if you get it any lower.

Next time hopefully we can try a CPU OC and RAM OC. RAM OC makes a huge difference. I lowered my latency from 55ns to 41.3ns!!!! (in benches) I didn't check before and after DPC latency because it's already so low taht it isn't a problem, ranging from around 14us to 49us

Oh yes! Networking! I've completly forgotten about that. If you're playing online FPS games (I'm guessing CS:GO?) then making your network connection as stable as possible and lowering the ping as much as possible is probably even more important since it gets the information to your eyes faster. Speaking of, you should overclock your monitor to 75Hz using the nvidia control panel once you've reinstalled like I mentioned earlier. Going from 60 > 75Hz is a big difference.

Before I go, I have one more tip. Use Spybot Anti-Beacon. This will block all the spying network traffic and in many cases actually lower your ping because of how much there was before blocking.

You should run DSLReport's Speed Test and post back the result. You want to get at least a score of A on the first two categories. An "A+" rating should be achievable on the second category if everything is setup correctly.

 

Again thanks for your reply! I do all of your tweaks, now results :

http://imgur.com/VYMe44v <-- latencymon driver tab

http://imgur.com/c5Xq6c2 <-- latencymon main tab

http://imgur.com/Tysi9eZ <-- task manager

http://imgur.com/qWC96B6 <-- dpclatency checker

Notes:
I haven't got other SATA ports i think ;/
Also im using 144hz monitor right now
I disabled windows update after a fresh windows install (dunno why ) so i haven't got any updates to be honest (So bad updates too)
This readyboot tweak works perfect D (i boot very fast now, rly)
And this Spybot Anti-Beacon works perfect too!
Results with internet :

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/3367394 <--- before using spybot

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/3367568 <-- after using spybot


I disabled all non used stuff in bios (i think.. )

And here is the new aida report http://www.mediafire.com/download/zxqwxwdx2wxw3e3/Report.htm

 

im at 25-35 max dont think I need anymore tweaks

 

So, @cookieboyeli you haven't got any more tips?

 

Sorry! I yes I do, but I've been unable to sleep much for the past few days. Insomnia... 3 hours of broken sleep a night... my head feels like a carved pumpkin.

Thanks for the feedback and posting stats, that is the best part for me! I get to see the progress and the effects of the changes so I know what else to try.

I've still got plenty of tips! I went over your AIDA64 report a few days ago and found a bunch of things we can do too. There is still a lot of improvement to be had! I just can't tell you everything right now, but I can manage a few things.

• Here, take this until I can get back to you with more, I keep forgetting it!

THIS IS FOR A COMPUTER WITH 8GB RAM ONLY. IF YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT AMOUNT OF MEMORY, REMOVE THE "IoPageLockLimit" LINE BEFORE MERGING!

Code:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]
"ClearPageFileAtShutdown"=dword:00000001
"NonPagedPoolQuota"=dword:00000000
"NonPagedPoolSize"=dword:00000000
"SessionViewSize"=dword:000000c0
"SystemPages"=dword:00000000
"SecondLevelDataCache"=dword:00000c00
"SessionPoolSize"=dword:000000c0
"DisablePagingExecutive"=dword:00000001
"LargeSystemCache"=dword:00000000
"PagedPoolSize"=dword:000000c0
"PagedPoolQuota"=dword:00000000
"PhysicalAddressExtension"=dword:00000001
"IoPageLockLimit"=dword:00100000
"PoolUsageMaximum"=dword:00000060


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters]
"EnableSuperfetch"=dword:00000003
"EnablePrefetcher"=dword:00000003
"SfTracingState"=dword:00000001

To merge it, make a txt file named Memory Management Tweaks - 8GB.txt, then change the extension to .reg and merge.
Tweaks apply to Vista and greater. 32/64/ARM, doesn't matter. It might even work on XP actually, I just don't know for sure.
If any values are invalid, Windows will automatically use the default so there is no danger of breaking anything for anyone on any OS.

Anyway, it's purpose is to optimize memory management and increase performance. You can read more about the tweaks here if you want:
http://www.registryrecycler.com/blog/2013/07/enhance-windows-memory-management-through-registry/
My values may differ from theirs, this is OK. It's intentional.
These settings are a combination from a couple different guides as some guides know more about certain values than others. I've done testing with different settings just to see if I could tweak it any further, but nope, this is the best you can get AFAIK.


• Uninstall 7-zip 9.38 and WinRAR and use 7-zip 15.14 x64 instead! It's WAAAAY newer.
Use these settings, it's much faster to do things with. (Right click > Extract Files > Bottom right Enter button with left thumb).

Also, disable the toolbar for less visual clutter. Resize the main window to about half the size of the options window. Then pin a shortcut for it to start. This way you can click it quickly and drag and drop things for compressing without skipping a beat!
Reminder to self:
Hosts file
Secure P2P
Extra vc++ removal
Intel Chipset
.Net
Remaining programs
Recording software
O&O
Hidden mouse acceleration
Media Playback
Cracking down on Nvidia driver DPC latency
Performance relation to DPC & latency in general
forced clock resolution
S.D.I double check
General Win Tweak reg
THE SCRIPTS!!!!1!!
PatchCleaner
DXrepair
Networking setup/diagram/overview
LAN adapter settings
Router, QoS
Modem error rate
Cabling, Shielding, ISP...

 

Okey @cookieboyeli. I will wait for new stuff from you my boss .

 

Still nothing?

I just updated chipste drivers manually. Cuz when i use installer it doesn't update ANY driver.

I extracted chipset installer, and just manually update all intel(R) devices, now system is more responsivness and game's are more smoother (or its placebo? dunno)

All drivers i've got 2006 blablabla - windows drivers.

Now i've got all 2k10 so i think its better and maybe it isn't placebo at smoothnes/responsivness ;D

 

(Sorry I've been gone, I'm busy and my insomnia comes in "weeks" at a time...) :bang: It makes everything fun a chore.

Yes that definitely makes a difference.
I said it before, but updating all these system drivers will have one of the largest impacts on DPC latency, lag, and system responsiveness!

It's not working because you don't know how to use it.
To use Snappy Driver Installer, you have to select "check only needed for this PC" then hit accept, ok, and it will download the 10mb index only.

Use expert mode to see more detail on mouseover. It will compare with what you have installed and if there is even newer or better that's what it'll install. Even I cannot find as much to update or a new of drivers as snappy driver installer can. It would literally take WEEKS to find all these drivers manually, and that is only IF you could! (I know I can't! The only place to get my Wifi driver is from there!).

Anyway, once it has the index, it'll tell you some devices or drivers need updating. Select "only needed for this PC" again, accept, ok.
Then on the MAIN PAGE (NOT the driver pack downloads page). Click select all, then install.

You can look over each manually and uncheck any if you feel unsure about them or if they cause a bluescreen (hey, it happens sometimes, no program or person is perfect. It's a miracle it works as good as it does).

I look at them all manually anyway just to see the advances in version numbers and build dates. It helps with the placebo! haha

After you've hit install, THEN it will download the driverpacks and silently unzip and install them. It's likely some may fail for some reason or one or two out of 30 will be incorrect, or if you're unlucky one will cause a bluescreen, but if there is any issue installing any it gives you alternatives and older versions so you can find something that works which isn't the a generic 2006 Microsoft edition.


•Only one more thing today, mouse acceleration! There is hidden mouse acceleration in all versions of windows. Read about it here to turn it off:
http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html

 

Im getting quit addicted to this Thread, very nice @cookieboyeli !

Together with this stuff here, you can build a very snappy System:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=327922
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=389072
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=376458
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=404402
https://steamcommunity.com/app/207380/discussions/0/792923684230105784/

@cookieboyeli
If you have anymore Tweak's that are not listed in the Thread's above, i would be happy to hear them.
But only if you can overcome your insomnia

 

Im waiting too!

@Wycleff1971

https://steamcommunity.com/app/207380/discussions/0/792923684230105784/

Is this supposed to work in other games?

 

Made the experience that it help's in every Game.
So just try it out

 

@cookieboyeli

Insomnia attacks again?

 

perfectly optimized system. no trashware. no bloatware windows 10.

#ggnore

 

how, please tell me :d

 

i will prepare a youtube tutorial series soon.
for smooth gameplay with crossfire.
for example i have 60fps in gta v with ultra settings on 1440p with my two 270 in crossfire...(300 EUR for both)
many people with way more expensive cards have problems getting to run the titles well...

and i will include some small tweaking like dpc latency in a seperate video soon.

but rule #1
dont use windows 10.
but as i see you dont anyway.
thats just the first step.
basically its only about eliminating background processes.
so windows 10 is a monster when it comes to resistent background apps. like search/cortana and the whole store stuff.
thats why its always easier to tweak a 7 down.
10 is full of telemetry data and scheduled os tasks for data collection. it's just sick.

i'll write in here when i have the tutorial done.

 

Okey dude, i will wait .