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Industry, and Apple, opposing “right to repair” laws
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anticupidon
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Default Industry, and Apple, opposing “right to repair” laws - 03-09-2017, 07:05 | posts: 2,888 | Location: far,far from home

What do you think guys about this ?

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...o-repair-laws/

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hn-deere-apple
   
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fantaskarsef
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Default 03-09-2017, 08:31 | posts: 6,857 | Location: Austria (no kangaroos here)

Not surprised. They make their business off of building things that break (planned obsolescence anyone?). Not new, started in the 19th century with the infamous light bulb problem. Has worked since then.
   
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platypus
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Default 03-09-2017, 10:23 | posts: 30 | Location: luv my acres

I had a problem with a tractor recently and it drove us up the wall.
Essentially the PTO would not operate, nothing we tried over 6 months would get it to work. No point getting the dealer out for one of his multi-thousand dollar paydays as he couldn't guarantee he could fix it on the spot and yep you guessed it, $500 to connect his laptop.

Talking to another farmer he suggested looking at the alternator belt. Why would I look at an alternator belt for a faulty PTO?
Turns out he was right on the money, the tractor has a ground radar to measure wheel spin. So it measures engine speed and ground speed to make this decision. Where is the the sensor to measure engine speed? Yep you guessed it - the alternator!

Why are these things so damn technical? I can feel wheelspin I can look out the window and see it.
The reason they add this crap on is solely because of the money the can make post sale. It's a bad joke and it's proprietry!
   
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fantaskarsef
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Default 03-09-2017, 11:23 | posts: 6,857 | Location: Austria (no kangaroos here)

Same with cars and their warranty... by a brand new factory rollout car and get five years of warranty... only to force you to go for the partner dealership / garage to pay higher prices for your repairs and services...

It's a system that's everywhere, a law of a right to fix kills that off, would force companies to either make products easier to fix (less new sales), or last longer (less new sales). Helps the people, damages companies, thus won't happen.
   
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Default 03-09-2017, 11:31 | posts: 2,603 | Location: Novi Sad, Serbia

This guy gives a decent analysis of the situation and basically blows the "anti repair" lobby out of the water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4gsFe9kM-0

Last edited by vidra; 03-09-2017 at 11:55.
   
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fantaskarsef
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Default 03-09-2017, 12:22 | posts: 6,857 | Location: Austria (no kangaroos here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vidra View Post
This guy gives a decent analysis of the situation and basically blows the "anti repair" lobby out of the water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4gsFe9kM-0
Nice vid, thanks for sharing. After the first 5 minutes I already was certain his opinion matches mine, personally. A marketing lady being head of a repair conference... it's like asking somebody from Pfizer's marketing department if he thinks it's a good idea to promote household alternatives to overpriced medicine...
   
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Default 03-09-2017, 12:28 | posts: 6,456 | Location: Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantaskarsef View Post
Same with cars and their warranty... by a brand new factory rollout car and get five years of warranty... only to force you to go for the partner dealership / garage to pay higher prices for your repairs and services...

It's a system that's everywhere, a law of a right to fix kills that off, would force companies to either make products easier to fix (less new sales), or last longer (less new sales). Helps the people, damages companies, thus won't happen.
You can service your car at any reputable service centre in Australia, and as long as the service book is stamped they have to honour the warranty. That is as long as it's not a service caused fault.
   
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Default 03-09-2017, 12:29 | posts: 30 | Location: luv my acres

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantaskarsef View Post
Same with cars and their warranty... by a brand new factory rollout car and get five years of warranty... only to force you to go for the partner dealership / garage to pay higher prices for your repairs and services...

It's a system that's everywhere, a law of a right to fix kills that off, would force companies to either make products easier to fix (less new sales), or last longer (less new sales). Helps the people, damages companies, thus won't happen.
With cars you can take them anywhere you like to get them repaired provided the mechanic is licensed there is no problem with warranty.
That's the law in Australia anyway.

Not so in the agricultural sector, we can't go to any mechanic.
Heck we can't even get hold of the manuals any longer.
And I'm talking equipment that costs half a million dollars.
   
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fantaskarsef
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Default 03-09-2017, 12:34 | posts: 6,857 | Location: Austria (no kangaroos here)

Well cool you can do that in Australia, in Austria we have to go to "partner garages" to honor the warranty... and yes they charge higher rates for both the hour of a mechanic (yet it does not get to the poorly payed guys), and the parts as well.

Yeah with those stuff you have a hard time, my dad actually learned to repair that stuff when he started out, but it's the same with tractors than with cars, they get more technical each year with useless computer stuff built in keeping your from repairing them easily. Just try to replace a light bulb in your new xeon headlight car... they could make it so that everybody could do it, but it's simply not in their interest
   
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Default 03-09-2017, 14:24 | posts: 2,888 | Location: far,far from home

Quote:
Originally Posted by vidra View Post
This guy gives a decent analysis of the situation and basically blows the "anti repair" lobby out of the water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4gsFe9kM-0
Long time follower of his channel, one sound mind, one brave enough to speak his mind.Someday Youtube or other company will shut him or something, he has a long record to spit in the face big companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantaskarsef View Post
Not surprised. They make their business off of building things that break (planned obsolescence anyone?). Not new, started in the 19th century with the infamous light bulb problem. Has worked since then.
As a computer repair guy and long time hardware/electronics consumer i am the moment when i ask if tomorrow i will still have something to repair or just change my trade.


   
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vbetts
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Default 03-09-2017, 15:19 | posts: 13,116 | Location: Toledo Ohio

I think that if companies like Apple would charge a normal amount, I would not be against this.

That being said, I cannot say that I personally have had too many Apple products I needed to take in and get repaired that hasn't taken a huge beating ever both personally, and in the work place.

Dell I've had issues with, but they're so cheap for repair costs and thanks to contracts it makes it cheaper.
   
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Default 03-11-2017, 01:34 | posts: 1,377

I was asked to check out a cordless hand-held vacuum cleaner and I found out that the battery was bad. I searched the Internet for a new battery and I couldn't find it. I couldn't take it apart because there may be hidden screws.
   
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Default 03-11-2017, 01:42 | posts: 7,097 | Location: Washington DC

Another reason why I don't and will never buy Apple products.
   
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Default 03-11-2017, 08:19 | posts: 6,981 | Location: BC, Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlkoho View Post
Another reason why I don't and will never buy Apple products.
I too will no longer buy Apple products personally. I have just seen too much planned obsolescence occur over the years with Apple products, not to mention the most recent IMO flagrant greed that's displayed by their designing the iPhone 7 (no headphone jack) and the MacBook Pro (nothing but USB-C)

They can say whatever they like about it, its clear they wanna sell accessories and dongles since they charge a fortune for them. Its also become clear to me (as someone who's used and supported Apple tablets and phones for years with my job) that updates over time are meant to cripple older devices, in so many ways guiding users to have to "upgrade" to remain having a "fast phone".

When you zoom out and look at all the signs, its pretty obvious that Apple has no intention of having people repair their devices.. they stand to lose HUGE amounts of money doing so.
   
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anticupidon
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Default 03-11-2017, 09:15 | posts: 2,888 | Location: far,far from home

I like open standards and liberty to fix your device.May no longer apply to newer models but Thinkpads have a service manual, with all steps for replacing parts.
Why is this a sin and why is a such a rare thing to find today ?


   
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Default 03-11-2017, 11:39 | posts: 1,377

I can't get parts for old large woodworking machines. You can get parts for old popular cars like 1955-1957 Chevy, Mustang, Firebird, Camaro, Corvette, Chevelle, etc, but not for all old cars.
   
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Default 03-12-2017, 06:55 | posts: 4,282 | Location: Beech Island SC,USA





   
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Default 03-12-2017, 23:18 | posts: 1,924 | Location: Earth



A new study is backing up long held suspicions that Apple slows down older models of iPhones to encourage users to buy its new release. The U.S. study analysed worldwide searches for 'iPhone slow' and found that the search term spiked significantly around the time of new phone releases
   
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0blivious
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Default 03-13-2017, 05:37 | posts: 2,089 | Location: Bremerton, WA USA (Go Mariners)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawedge View Post


A new study is backing up long held suspicions that Apple slows down older models of iPhones to encourage users to buy its new release. The U.S. study analysed worldwide searches for 'iPhone slow' and found that the search term spiked significantly around the time of new phone releases
When I had an iPhone (3GS) I never liked how they force(d) the latest iOS down your throat. You had no choice but to upgrade. Perhaps this was part of it (who doesn't like a good conspiracy?)

The entire Apple experience is:
a) open your wallet
b) give Apple your money
c) let Apple decide everything, like which headphones
d) you need "airpods"
e) open your wallet
f) give Apple your money...

Last edited by 0blivious; 03-13-2017 at 05:39.
   
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HeavyHemi
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Default 03-13-2017, 06:39 | posts: 5,251 | Location: Wooing whilst wearing only socks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawedge View Post


A new study is backing up long held suspicions that Apple slows down older models of iPhones to encourage users to buy its new release. The U.S. study analysed worldwide searches for 'iPhone slow' and found that the search term spiked significantly around the time of new phone releases
There's an article for the graph if anyone is interested.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-launches.html
   
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Default 03-13-2017, 06:41 | posts: 8,559 | Location: GTA, Canada

My sister has been using iPhones since the 3G and every single one started having issues and dying right around the 2 year mark. Let me guess, Apple's warranty is less than 2 years?
   
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Default 03-13-2017, 07:35 | posts: 6,456 | Location: Australia

I think they only offer a one year warranty. They don't really want people not buying their next yearly model. However, different jurisdictions have different rules in regards to warranties and resonable expectations of acceptable quality. Seeing as the iPhone is the most expensive phone on the market, in Australia even past the warranty period you can claim warranty under acceptable quality expection rules. This gets really complicated to try and chase up though.

A mobile phone due to the nature, treatment of them, usage etc, two years is probably conisdered a reasonable usage time. It's why it's stupid to spend so much on a phone, because 99.9 percent of the people who purchase such phones don't need the features the extra costs provide. A better camera is not a valid argument, spending an extra $500 to have a better camera on the phone is silly, although they are better than they use to be the really nice shots you see online and in adverts are very much cherry-picked, and in optimal conditions. A modern proper camera (not a 1/2.3" compact, although even they should be better) not set up improperly by the user such to distort results, should always be better quality that that a phone can take. A phone therefore is a convenience camera, it should not be used a pro camera, in which case the extra cost of $500 for the camera is pointless. You might as well buy a better $500 every couple of years or so for pro shots... and you probably wouldn't because you would think you wouldn't need it!
   
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Default 03-13-2017, 08:17 | posts: 6,857 | Location: Austria (no kangaroos here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawedge View Post


A new study is backing up long held suspicions that Apple slows down older models of iPhones to encourage users to buy its new release. The U.S. study analysed worldwide searches for 'iPhone slow' and found that the search term spiked significantly around the time of new phone releases
I'm not sure because I never have owned an iPhone and got pretty quickly fed up with the dying battery in my iPod back in the day, but I'd be really curious to see a release table worked into that graph that shows iOS updates. I wouldn't be surprised to see that also iOS updates correlate with such jumps in searches (something I've already suspected being an android thing too, release a new OS version that slowls older phones).



Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy91 View Post
I think they only offer a one year warranty. They don't really want people not buying their next yearly model. However, different jurisdictions have different rules in regards to warranties and resonable expectations of acceptable quality. Seeing as the iPhone is the most expensive phone on the market, in Australia even past the warranty period you can claim warranty under acceptable quality expection rules. This gets really complicated to try and chase up though.
Just about the first paragraph, maybe in Australia you can claim a prolongued warranty, in the EU it's two years. But they want to sell you apple care anyway and charge you further
   
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allesclar
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Default 03-13-2017, 12:12 | posts: 5,350 | Location: England

Anything from the Dailymail should be taken with a pinch of salt at the best of times.

In general I understand why they dont want to support repairs as lets face it, it costs them more. In most cases its outright cheaper to write off some hardware and send out a replacement that it is to get it looked at by an engineer and repaired.
   
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Default 03-13-2017, 12:17 | posts: 6,857 | Location: Austria (no kangaroos here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by allesclar View Post
Anything from the Dailymail should be taken with a pinch of salt at the best of times.

In general I understand why they dont want to support repairs as lets face it, it costs them more. In most cases its outright cheaper to write off some hardware and send out a replacement that it is to get it looked at by an engineer and repaired.
And that's exactly the issue with current society / manufacturing. Repairing could save money and resources in the long run, but we like building millions of new phones each year, not even having mastered the recycling process that would help. This is inevitably leading up to a resource crisis down the long road, which a timely change to repairable goods and electronics could avoid. At least that's the theory I guess.
   
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