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thatguy91
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Default 03-07-2017, 06:24 | posts: 6,217 | Location: Australia

Take a magnesium supplement. Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, but hard to diagnose in the blood. One of the symptoms of magnesium deficient is anxiety or depression.

Not all supplements are the same, some are good and some not so much. The reason for this is some forms of Magnesium are easier for the body to absorb than others. Ideally get one containing Magnesium Citrate of around 1 gram, and take that at night with your meal. Some say also take a Magnesium chelate tablet in the morning. Not a good idea to take too much though, if you can find a Magnesium chelate tablet of 500 mg for the morning and the Magnesium Citate tablet of 1000 mg in the evening, that would be ideal.

A very important aspect of taking Magnesium is that it works synergistically with Vitamin D. Taking a vitamin D supplement with your magnesium will greatly improve the benefits of taking Magnesium. Vitamin D also has other benefits. The vitamin D must be in D3 form, ideally 1000 iu (or greater).

Also drink plenty of water. Magnesium citrate will also help your bowel movements , but not in a bad way. You would possibly notice improvements the first night, but certainly after a couple of nights you will know whether it is beneficial for you in terms of your sleeping issue.

Last edited by thatguy91; 03-07-2017 at 06:30.
   
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kaingr
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Default 03-07-2017, 07:18 | posts: 163 | Location: greece

dont worry about your weight welcome to the club just walk your dog instead of 15 minutes go towards 2hours i would suggest in uphill seccond if you cant sleep what i do is watch documentaries you know the silly kind nazis, space base ,aliens, catastrophies.and they get me every time i wake up and tv is running all night,. Now my best way to get some sleep like a concrete is little mj although i only had it about 6 times in my life damn i was sleeping like crazy also the buzz for us guyz is no different than 2 glasses of wine....anyway i dont know if its legal in netherlands and sorry for recomending it .Finnally dude you need to change enviroment go some vacations mate for a week.Go somewhere with a lot of hot blonde haired and red haired women it will cheer you up. Good luck mate
   
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Geryboy
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Default 03-07-2017, 07:49 | posts: 2,256 | Location: Munich

at the end of the day ,maybe I never had a real depression, you feel like that because you try to push yourself in a direction that isn't working out for you, try to be somebody you can't be, or have a perspective of the world that doesn't fit reality.

Try to do things the easy way and come to sense of who you are and what you're capable of doing and don't try to fit in an ideal version of yourself.

don't force yourself to reach your unrealistic goals of your childhood and set yourself new more realistic goals.

Don't fight windmills.
   
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Zooke
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Default 03-07-2017, 08:15 | posts: 68 | Location: West Midlands

Similar to a previous poster, I have tried lots of different anxiety / depression medication with varying results.
For instance, Citalopram made me worse, Mirtazapine made me put on a lot of weight + have water retention, Venlafaxine kinda helps a bit.

My recommendations (in no particular order) would be;
1. Regular visits to your doctor to monitor both your mental and physical health and to assess the effects of the current medication. Also, regular visits will help your doctor to get to know you better, and understand your issues to a greater extent. In my experience, this was extremely helpful for me.
2. Exercise, I know everyone says this one, and sometimes going out of the house is the last thing you want to do but any exercise that slightly raises your heart rate (preferably a bit of sweating too) releases all kinds of chemicals from your brain and genuinely will improve your life.
3. Diet, another standard suggestion on the list. Red Bull, coffee, eating late at night, these are all no-no's for a decent sleep. I would also suggest that stimulants such as Red Bull and coffee are not helping with your panic attacks or anxiety.
4. Counselling, this one is a bit of a stretch for some people but it can be very useful, especially for learning to deal with panic attacks and sleep issues. Group activities / sessions are useful for making new friends too.

Try those for starters, as other posters have said, this is about a lifestyle change. There are going to be no quick fixes here.

Good Luck.
   
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signex
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Default 03-07-2017, 08:39 | posts: 8,059 | Location: Netherlands

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Originally Posted by StewieTech View Post
Where did you get that idea? I used to take them and i was way more happy and intersted, now without them im struggling. Maybe they dont work for some dunno.

OP, i strongly suggest daily exercise. Some good other suggestions here to help you bounce back into spirit. Good luck mate.
The one i'm taking is one example, it could lead to more depression when taken too long but it works extremely well short term

Taking a hike does feel nice yea, if i didn't had dogs i maybe wouldn't have gone outside.
   
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Default 03-07-2017, 08:48 | posts: 8,059 | Location: Netherlands

Thank you so much for all these comments, these tips are very helpful.

I just had my first normal sleep in my own bed, i noticed my breathing was making my heart go fast.
Even though it was hard, i tried to breath slowly through my nose and i started to notice my heartbeat went slow and normal.
Cause i always breath both through my nose and mouth cause after taking the stairs and going into bed i'm just gasping for air wich leads to fast heartbeat.
   
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Solfaur
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Default 03-07-2017, 09:02 | posts: 6,154 | Location: Romania

My best advise is to go get a gym membership and to start lifting weights. It's by far one of the most accessible physical activities as it can work with every body type/level of knowledge and there are many side perks that come with it.

I was overweight all my life, due to a ****ty metabolism AND bad eating habits. Sitting all day playing games didn't help much either. All this changed when I started working out. Once you get the hang of it, you will also start being more careful of what you eat, how much time you spend sitting etc. and at the same time it will be good for your overall health.

The ancient saying Mens sana in corpore sano (a healthy mind in a healthy body) couldn't be more true. Not to mention you will have a lot of social interactions at the gym too.

Keep things in moderation, moderation is the key really. Don't go all out as you risk a burnout. Don't stop eating crap altogether, but have a treat from time to time. Same for gaming etc.

All this I can tell from personal experience, as a very introvert, socially anxious, overweight guy. To this day, I still am all of that, but the degree of the severity of them is minimal and definitely manageable.

Without sports though, I'd be a total wreck, I'm sure of it.

PS - The only medication I was/still am on is for high blood pressure. I did experience some panic attacks, but I didn't even realize what they were until after it happened. Luckily, there were only like 2-3 of them and haven't had one for years.
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 03-07-2017, 10:21 | posts: 16,969 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfaur View Post
Once you get the hang of it, you will also start being more careful of what you eat
This ^^, feels like a mountain to climb at first, but after a few weeks you just click into the habit of knowing what's what calorie wise, carbs, protein etc, quick glance at the back of a packet before you eat becomes 2nd nature

I'd read all this stuff about counting calories and thought Phffft, but after getting a rough estimate of your metabolic rate you can fairly easily get things under control in terms of how much you're burning vs how much you're eating

Then I use the health app on my phone to count distance, steps and calorie burning when I'm out walking, it's not 100% accurate but gives a rough idea of what you've burned that you can then take from your daily total

Starts becoming quite interesting once you get into the habit

Say I burn 2500c at rest
I eat another healthy 2500c that day
I burn 500c exercising / walking
Total calories that day = minus 500c = losing weight

When I first started this I would walk to the beach and back and that would be my fill, maybe 3~ miles, now I'm walking right along the coastline, some days hitting 8 miles+ and only starting to notice it about 3/4 of the way home when my legs are getting heavy

I'm not a fan of cardio / getting out of breath from running etc, so walking a few hours a day is a perfect alternative
   
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Solfaur
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Default 03-07-2017, 10:45 | posts: 6,154 | Location: Romania

Great tips Extraordinary. I myself don't count calories too much (except when I'm dieting), but am more careful to have the right protein intake. But yes, it's really easy to do now days for both newbs and pros.

Quote:
When I first started this I would walk to the beach and back and that would be my fill, maybe 3~ miles, now I'm walking right along the coastline, some days hitting 8 miles+ and only starting to notice it about 3/4 of the way home when my legs are getting heavy

I'm not a fan of cardio / getting out of breath from running etc, so walking a few hours a day is a perfect alternative
There are several studies, and well, I've seen it on myself that low intensity cardio (for example walking) is one of the best fat burners out there. Not to mention that you save your joints, because running, especially on concrete when you're overweight can be quite damaging.
   
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signex
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Default 03-07-2017, 11:09 | posts: 8,059 | Location: Netherlands

I'll try and motivate myself to walk much longer distances but atm i can't make myself do it yet.

Doctor said even a little can help, so i'm taking it slow before going for long walk.

Also i'm getting different meds, can't remember the name though as like always they have ridiculous names lol.
I swear it started with "cita", we'll see how that goes but he didn't let me quit on oxazepam yet.
   
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slickric21
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Default 03-07-2017, 11:10 | posts: 2,405 | Location: U.K

Really sorry to hear you aren't doing so good Signex but you have had some great advice from the guys here.

Your post really struck a nerve with me as I had some very similar symptoms in my early twenties that you have mentioned.
I would have anxiety attacks in the evening, usually when I've got in bed. My heart would start beating faster and faster and I was convinced that I had something wrong with my heart.
Thinking about it would make it worse and worse until in the end I had to get up and put some music on just to forget it.
Eventually I'd fall asleep, but then I'd wake up super early at hours wide awake.

It was a terrible period of my life, but it was somewhat self inflicted I think, as I did used to smoke a lot of 'fragrant' substances in the years leading up to this.

Needless to say I stopped the smoking, started doing loads of sport and excercises and I was put on anti depressants for approx 6months.

I made a full recovery and left that chapter of my life behind, I genuinely believe it made me a stronger person having been through that period. When I try to think back about it now I barley even remember that period as it was like I was a different person.

I hope you can find something in this that will give you strength and hope to realise that there is nothing actually wrong with you, that it is just a temporary blip on your life's journey and that you can and will make a full recovery and get back to your real self.

Good luck
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 03-07-2017, 11:22 | posts: 16,969 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfaur View Post
Great tips Extraordinary. I myself don't count calories too much (except when I'm dieting), but am more careful to have the right protein intake. But yes, it's really easy to do now days for both newbs and pros.



There are several studies, and well, I've seen it on myself that low intensity cardio (for example walking) is one of the best fat burners out there. Not to mention that you save your joints, because running, especially on concrete when you're overweight can be quite damaging.
Yea I'm more careful on protein intake too, I try to eat around 1g protein for 1lb bodyweight, not as difficult as I thought it would be when I first started, along with the help of protein shakes you can get that amount in you without much problem

Yea I've never really enjoyed running, I was good at it when I was younger, good sprinter and could do long distance if I had to but hated that cold lungs and watery mouth feeling

Quote:
Originally Posted by signex View Post
I'll try and motivate myself to walk much longer distances but atm i can't make myself do it yet.

Doctor said even a little can help, so i'm taking it slow before going for long walk.

Also i'm getting different meds, can't remember the name though as like always they have ridiculous names lol.
I swear it started with "cita", we'll see how that goes but he didn't let me quit on oxazepam yet.
Citalopram?

Yea start off with a short walk each day, and you'll be surprised how quickly you end up not wanting to turn around to go home yet, just another 15 mins here and there until you're walking a good distance each day

And another trick I learned, take no money so you can't get buses home, and walk yourself quite a way away, so you have no choice but to walk the same distance home again, just stick a bottle of water in your pocket, sometimes I take a protein bar if I'm going a long way, and just set off, take headphones for music too, when you're listening to tunes/audiobook you're not thinking about how far you're walking

But definitely, baby steps at first or you''ll sicken yourself of it before you start
   
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signex
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Default 03-07-2017, 11:34 | posts: 8,059 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extraordinary View Post
Yea I'm more careful on protein intake too, I try to eat around 1g protein for 1lb bodyweight, not as difficult as I thought it would be when I first started, along with the help of protein shakes you can get that amount in you without much problem

Yea I've never really enjoyed running, I was good at it when I was younger, good sprinter and could do long distance if I had to but hated that cold lungs and watery mouth feeling



Citalopram?

Yea start off with a short walk each day, and you'll be surprised how quickly you end up not wanting to turn around to go home yet, just another 15 mins here and there until you're walking a good distance each day

And another trick I learned, take no money so you can't get buses home, and walk yourself quite a way away, so you have no choice but to walk the same distance home again, just stick a bottle of water in your pocket, sometimes I take a protein bar if I'm going a long way, and just set off, take headphones for music too, when you're listening to tunes/audiobook you're not thinking about how far you're walking

But definitely, baby steps at first or you''ll sicken yourself of it before you start
Maybe i really don't know what the name was, i don't think that was it.

Walking definitely feels a bit easier each day, wich is why i keep this pace first before going any further.
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 03-07-2017, 11:40 | posts: 16,969 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by signex View Post
Maybe i really don't know what the name was, i don't think that was it.

Walking definitely feels a bit easier each day, wich is why i keep this pace first before going any further.
Yep, just get yourself into the routine of walking each day, you'll know when going further feels right without having to force it, you'll just want to go further one day, next day, next day etc

Walking isn't a problem for me now, lifting still requires some self discipline due to lack of motivation of training on my own, but once I pull my finger out and get that first set out of the way I'm all in

And you start feeling better about yourself not having wasted yet another day doing nothing if you do something each day

Slowly slowly is the key
   
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signex
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Default 03-07-2017, 11:42 | posts: 8,059 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by slickric21 View Post
Really sorry to hear you aren't doing so good Signex but you have had some great advice from the guys here.

Your post really struck a nerve with me as I had some very similar symptoms in my early twenties that you have mentioned.
I would have anxiety attacks in the evening, usually when I've got in bed. My heart would start beating faster and faster and I was convinced that I had something wrong with my heart.
Thinking about it would make it worse and worse until in the end I had to get up and put some music on just to forget it.
Eventually I'd fall asleep, but then I'd wake up super early at hours wide awake.

It was a terrible period of my life, but it was somewhat self inflicted I think, as I did used to smoke a lot of 'fragrant' substances in the years leading up to this.

Needless to say I stopped the smoking, started doing loads of sport and excercises and I was put on anti depressants for approx 6months.

I made a full recovery and left that chapter of my life behind, I genuinely believe it made me a stronger person having been through that period. When I try to think back about it now I barley even remember that period as it was like I was a different person.

I hope you can find something in this that will give you strength and hope to realise that there is nothing actually wrong with you, that it is just a temporary blip on your life's journey and that you can and will make a full recovery and get back to your real self.

Good luck
Definitely the worst feeling/period i ever had, i know nothing is wrong with me and that it's just fear and anxiety.

I'm also a smoker, but i doubt that caused the issue as i've started only smoking 2 years ago and i don't smoke that much.
I do want to quit smoking asap after i've dealt with this, i want to start exercising etc.

Glad you got it under control now, i'm hoping i will get rid of this awful feeling asap.
As it affects my life during the day now too but not as bad as in the evening/nights.

It makes me kinda happy that it is fixable, cause most of the time i get the feeling that i will have this for the rest of my life.
I've been reading from people that lived with it for an year or 2, i can't see myself having this for that long it will destroy my life.
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 03-07-2017, 12:28 | posts: 16,969 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by slickric21 View Post
I did used to smoke a lot of 'fragrant' substances in the years leading up to this.
Same to get me to sleep, but found it very quickly let to even worse panic attack symptoms, which are 100x worse after a smoke because you convince yourself you're dying and can't snap out of it

Stopped that stuff a long time ago and feel a lot better for it, don't even like the stuff but it was a sleeping aid at the time

EDIT - Well this thread motivated me to do some weights, and now I'm gonna head out for a walk, so a doubler for fitness today, can't be a bad thing

Last edited by Extraordinary; 03-07-2017 at 13:23.
   
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Default 03-07-2017, 13:31 | posts: 1,517 | Location: #1 http://www.3dmark.com/fs/8257155

What thatguy91 said.
D and Magnesium (it helps if you combine Vit. D with Calcium)

And finally, if you have the nightly awakenings with tachycardia and can't calm down from 200 BPM (accompanied by sweaty hands, hyperventilation etc. you name it) then please ask the doctor you trust for a prescription of beta-blocker (selective! -> bisoprolol; i.e. "Concor") for these cases only!!

The method to not get to that point where you have to either call the ambulance or take a beta-blocker is the combined effort of you to get a proper schedule going and to wake up with the sunlight and go to bed the moment you get tired. Don't overdo the point when you should go to bed and then later you just aren't tired anymore.
An offset in your melatonine levels may be the cause as well, if you tend to have a very variable sleep cycle to begin with (stay up 24h etc.)

So to counter the "issue" in the long run
- go to sleep the moment your body is tired
- normalize your schedule in coherence with sunlight times
- don't do stuff that stirs you up in the evening
- do sports on a daily basis, preferably in the early evening so it makes you tired (go out for 30-60 minutes every day.)
- drink valerian extract tea ~1h before going to sleep

"First-Aid" in case you are feeling that your heart rate is slowly but surely propelling up to 200BPM and can't calm down by yourself:

- assume a half-seated / half-lying down position
- regulate your breathing by using a bag to breathe for 1-2 minutes
if this doesn't help and you are starting to feel uncomfortable
- take low dosed beta-blocker (you can also preventively take a lorazepam before going to bed on critical days, where you know you can't test out how long it will take to calm down)

BUT in general mostly alone by knowing you have a counteracting pill available this in 80% of the times (minor cases of anxiety disorder) helps to prevent any problems most of the time, because this knowledge will calm you down.
   
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signex
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Default 03-07-2017, 14:07 | posts: 8,059 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by vase View Post
What thatguy91 said.
D and Magnesium (it helps if you combine Vit. D with Calcium)

And finally, if you have the nightly awakenings with tachycardia and can't calm down from 200 BPM (accompanied by sweaty hands, hyperventilation etc. you name it) then please ask the doctor you trust for a prescription of beta-blocker (selective! -> bisoprolol; i.e. "Concor") for these cases only!!

The method to not get to that point where you have to either call the ambulance or take a beta-blocker is the combined effort of you to get a proper schedule going and to wake up with the sunlight and go to bed the moment you get tired. Don't overdo the point when you should go to bed and then later you just aren't tired anymore.
An offset in your melatonine levels may be the cause as well, if you tend to have a very variable sleep cycle to begin with (stay up 24h etc.)

So to counter the "issue" in the long run
- go to sleep the moment your body is tired
- normalize your schedule in coherence with sunlight times
- don't do stuff that stirs you up in the evening
- do sports on a daily basis, preferably in the early evening so it makes you tired (go out for 30-60 minutes every day.)
- drink valerian extract tea ~1h before going to sleep

"First-Aid" in case you are feeling that your heart rate is slowly but surely propelling up to 200BPM and can't calm down by yourself:

- assume a half-seated / half-lying down position
- regulate your breathing by using a bag to breathe for 1-2 minutes
if this doesn't help and you are starting to feel uncomfortable
- take low dosed beta-blocker (you can also preventively take a lorazepam before going to bed on critical days, where you know you can't test out how long it will take to calm down)

BUT in general mostly alone by knowing you have a counteracting pill available this in 80% of the times (minor cases of anxiety disorder) helps to prevent any problems most of the time, because this knowledge will calm you down.
That's actually true and a fact, the moment i take my metroprolol the heart is instantly calm and so am i.(ofc the medicine won't work in an instant, but the thought of you took the medicine calms you down)

Metroprolol is actually a betablocker, slows heartrate and lowers your blood pressure.

Breathing method helps a bit yes, i don't use a bag though. I just breath in through my nose and hold it for 3 sec and slowly release it through my mouth.

Luckily i don't wake up middle of my sleep anymore, metroprolol helps with that.
   
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Default 03-07-2017, 14:35 | posts: 2,629 | Location: Netherlands

This song 'Weightless' from Marconi Union has a very specific effect that forces your brain to calm down, induces drowsiness and therapists found it to have a very strong effect reducing panic attacks. It's also known as the most sleep-inducing music ever, so don't play it when driving.

As far as I can tell, listening with headphones on puts a sort of heartbeat rhythm in your head that overpowers the one you have (like in a panic attack), so your brain tries to adapt to that instead of racing with your own heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by article
Studies found Weightless was 11 per cent more relaxing than any other song and even made many of the women "drowsy" in the lab.

It induced a 65 per cent reduction in overall anxiety and brought them to a level 35 per cent lower than their usual resting rates

Last edited by Texter; 03-07-2017 at 14:48.
   
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Solfaur
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Thumbs up 03-07-2017, 15:57 | posts: 6,154 | Location: Romania

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drink valerian extract tea ~1h before going to sleep
I totally forgot to mention this. It's a very effective and 100% natural product which I take in form of pills or tea whenever I have problems falling asleep. Yet another perk of exercise though is that you WILL get tired and feel the need for recovery (sleep) much stronger, hence why I only use valerian extract just occasionally these days.
   
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airbud7
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Default 03-07-2017, 15:59 | posts: 3,795 | Location: Beech Island SC,USA

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Originally Posted by Texter View Post
This song 'Weightless' from Marconi Union has a very specific effect that forces your brain to calm down, induces drowsiness and therapists found it to have a very strong effect reducing panic attacks. It's also known as the most sleep-inducing music ever, so don't play it when driving.
Dude...That video made me go to sleep.....Just Now!...at Work!...My Boss just Kicked me to wake me up!......
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 03-07-2017, 16:17 | posts: 16,969 | Location: 127.0.0.1

I played it for 30 seconds and could feel myself going into a daydream state so turned it off

Might try this tonight, although I'm sleeping OK atm
   
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Texter
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Default 03-07-2017, 16:41 | posts: 2,629 | Location: Netherlands

I had a link to a Telegraph article that went AWOL...(three attempts just now to actually copy/paste the link...weird).
   
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Solfaur
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Default 03-07-2017, 17:41 | posts: 6,154 | Location: Romania

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Originally Posted by airbud7 View Post
Dude...That video made me go to sleep.....Just Now!...at Work!...My Boss just Kicked me to wake me up!......
I started yawning 15 seconds in it lolwut.
   
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signex
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Default 03-07-2017, 19:48 | posts: 8,059 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfaur View Post
I totally forgot to mention this. It's a very effective and 100% natural product which I take in form of pills or tea whenever I have problems falling asleep. Yet another perk of exercise though is that you WILL get tired and feel the need for recovery (sleep) much stronger, hence why I only use valerian extract just occasionally these days.
Will take a note of that!

Got the new pills too, but they work best after 4-6 weeks sadly.
   
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