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mtrai
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Default 10-06-2016, 21:06 | posts: 750 | Location: Panama City Beach, FL, USA

Alrighty after a lot of changing things with my lcd panel I have figured out a few things and also done a lot of deep digging on the web to find freesync over hdmi info from AMD.

For my panel it does indeed work with a few cavets that need to be mentioned:

Freesync over HDMI can work with any LCD that already has the proper type of asic controller chip, the difference being several things. There is nothing special about these chips AMD went the route of using existing ones as a cost measure for the monitor. They did write custom firmware specifically for these chips in the monitor and proprietary edid data blocks.

1. What we are adding in the overide edid is only partial freesync info for the asic chip, it will work somewhat depending on which one is in your monitors control board.

2. For full freesync and what I mean here is for full freesync in the asic controller chip you need the custom firmware.

3. Freesync over HDMI is already fully implemented in the crimson drivers.

With all this said in my case, I using it on an LG 29UM58 ultra wide screen, going by specs it does vertical of 48 -75 but we already know the lower range can be extended on freesync.

I was having an issue with freesync being enabled at 48 to 75, but remember this is not full implementation, I tried so many combinations of ranges and what I found is my working freesync range is 30 to 74, yep 30 to 74 any other combination with the max at 75 causes blanking when freesync engages. This leads me to believe it is full implementation but only partial as I do not have the firmware update.

The curious thing was last night I was looking at the freesync over hdmi monitor list at amd and a there was a new entry for lg which was not there a few days ago, the LG 29um58a ( which does not exist) but the from appearances it the same as my 29um58.
   
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OnnA
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Default 10-06-2016, 21:35 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

So, download Firmware for it when it will be avaible -> and Done You have Full freeSync on non FreeSync Monitor !
I tell you that this is possible (what is impossible? for us nothing becouse we don't restrain ourselves)
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-07-2016, 00:24 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Now after some additional Try & Check, i got new working setting for my FreeSync CRT
It is Stable at 57-74 no blinking etc.
Now i need to run again some tests with FRAPS+FLA and compare it to 60-74 and 74-120

UPD.
Still Very good, i will continue using that settings 57-74

Last edited by OnnA; 10-07-2016 at 00:59.
   
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mtrai
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Default 10-07-2016, 00:31 | posts: 750 | Location: Panama City Beach, FL, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnnA View Post
So, download Firmware for it when it will be avaible -> and Done You have Full freeSync on non FreeSync Monitor !
I tell you that this is possible (what is impossible? for us nothing becouse we don't restrain ourselves)

Yeah it is possible now will monitor manufacturers actually release firmware updates is another whole nother thing

More likely we will need to pull the edid data block from reading the eeprom and insert it as an override...easy enough once we see a few of them.
   
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OnnA
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Talking 10-07-2016, 01:00 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrai View Post
Yeah it is possible now will monitor manufacturers actually release firmware updates is another whole nother thing

More likely we will need to pull the edid data block from reading the eeprom and insert it as an override...easy enough once we see a few of them.
But if it working, why bother?
Leave and enjoy, ME:Catalyst is more smooth now (it clearly need more CPU, but with FreeSync is very enjoyable)
   
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ToastyX
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Default 10-07-2016, 01:50 | posts: 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisiv View Post
Thats what I get for jumping to wrong conclusion. I don't mind being wrong. But do you really think change in refresh rate on CRT is seamless and unobservable to the naked eye like in FS-capable monitors?
The brightness will change as the refresh rate changes, but the difference won't be as big as you might think.

The flicker might be bothersome at lower refresh rates, but most CRT monitors won't allow refresh rates less than 50 Hz anyway, which is why OnnA had to raise the minimum to 56-57 Hz.

Someone that got ULMB (backlight strobing) and G-SYNC working at the same time noted both effects weren't major issues: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2883
   
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OnnA
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Cool 10-07-2016, 02:22 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastyX View Post
The brightness will change as the refresh rate changes, but the difference won't be as big as you might think.

The flicker might be bothersome at lower refresh rates, but most CRT monitors won't allow refresh rates less than 50 Hz anyway, which is why OnnA had to raise the minimum to 56-57 Hz.

Someone that got ULMB (backlight strobing) and G-SYNC working at the same time noted both effects weren't major issues: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2883
Hmm in my OSD i got Edge Lock on 2 (Back)
1 is front -A_
57-74 works better than 60-74

-> https://www.cnet.com/products/mitsub...-series/specs/

Last edited by OnnA; 10-07-2016 at 02:33.
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 10-07-2016, 22:16 | posts: 17,415 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Discovered a nice side effect of running the "reset-all.exe" after a new driver install

When I enable my HDMI TV as extended display, it usually blacks out my main display for a good few seconds before enabling both, same disabling HDMI, it blacks out both displays before returning just to the main display

Running reset-all.exe completely repairs that, there is no screen blackout, now when extending displays it just enables and disables the secondary display without turning off the main display at all, makes the whole process way faster too


EDIT - Damn, found out why, it resets the TV to 50Hz, with 50Hz I don't get that black few seconds between switching, 60Hz does, not sure why as both displays are set to 60Hz, would have thought it be the other way round if anything

Last edited by Extraordinary; 10-07-2016 at 22:22.
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-08-2016, 00:31 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extraordinary View Post
Discovered a nice side effect of running the "reset-all.exe" after a new driver install

When I enable my HDMI TV as extended display, it usually blacks out my main display for a good few seconds before enabling both, same disabling HDMI, it blacks out both displays before returning just to the main display

Running reset-all.exe completely repairs that, there is no screen blackout, now when extending displays it just enables and disables the secondary display without turning off the main display at all, makes the whole process way faster too


EDIT - Damn, found out why, it resets the TV to 50Hz, with 50Hz I don't get that black few seconds between switching, 60Hz does, not sure why as both displays are set to 60Hz, would have thought it be the other way round if anything
You need to set working setings for all of your displays.
If your TV have problems with 60Hz, give it standard 50 or 59Hz -> maby then it will be NP.
you need to try
   
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ToastyX
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Default 10-08-2016, 01:14 | posts: 19

I got an RX 480 and did some testing.

Good news: It's real! FreeSync is actually working and changing the refresh rate on the fly.

Bad news: The trick only works with HDMI. The driver will not allow FreeSync to be enabled with DVI or DisplayPort using this trick.

Unfortunately, the only monitor I have with HDMI (ASUS VG248QE) blacks out when FreeSync is enabled regardless of the range, and the monitor without a scaler (Yamakasi Catleap 2B) only has dual-link DVI, although it can also handle single-link DVI at lower pixel clocks. I tried using an HDMI-DVI cable and the usual trick of adding an HDMI support data block, but it was still detected as DVI with the RX 480. I also can't test the 14" CRT until I get an HDMI-VGA adapter.

So how do I know it works? I managed to trick the driver into allowing it with the Catleap using a DVI splitter.

First, I had to connect the ASUS to the splitter using a DVI-HDMI cable so it would be detected as HDMI. Then I set everything up and connected the Catleap to the splitter. Unfortunately, using the splitter with HDMI limits the Catleap to single-link DVI, and using a splitter degrades the signal, so I couldn't test it at the Catleap's full resolution without flickering green lines. However, I found that both monitors will display 2560x1080, although the Catleap will repeat the image at the bottom because it doesn't have a scaler.

When I ran the FreeSync windmill demo, the ASUS blacked out while the Catleap handled FreeSync perfectly at 30-60 Hz:

FreeSync ON with VSync OFF showed no tearing or judder as the frame rate changed with the FPS sweep option.
FreeSync OFF with VSync OFF showed tearing.
FreeSync OFF with VSync ON showed judder.

This means FreeSync is possible with DVI if the driver would allow it. I bet this would also work with other overclockable Korean monitors. It might even work with G-SYNC monitors if AMD would allow this to work with DisplayPort.

I'm trying to think of a way to show this is working, but it's hard to come up with a test using a camera because videos have fixed frame rates. I'll brainstorm some ideas and report back.
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 10-08-2016, 09:00 | posts: 17,415 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnnA View Post
You need to set working setings for all of your displays.
If your TV have problems with 60Hz, give it standard 50 or 59Hz -> maby then it will be NP.
you need to try
Thanks, the TV has no issues with 60Hz, it's just the switch over from single to extended displays that causes that black screen, once it's switched it works fine

EDIT - Works fine with 59Hz, no black cutout too, I`ll leave it on 59Hz for now and see if I notice any issues vs 60Hz, thanks

Last edited by Extraordinary; 10-08-2016 at 10:20.
   
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mtrai
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Default 10-08-2016, 13:24 | posts: 750 | Location: Panama City Beach, FL, USA

Nice Extradinary gonna test this with the TV as it drives me crazy anytime I switch it to the PC connection. Do you mean after the reboot or you reset-all and keep using the PC?

@ToastyX I have only gotten it to work at least show in CCC ONCE over display port to hdmi adaptor. It happened the first night I was workiing this. TBH I am not sure what all I did but it did work once. Not been able to reproduce.

I can get it working over DVI-D and HDMI. For the DVI-D make sure you check enable the DVI_D option in the HDMI data block edit options. Both the same time.

Last edited by mtrai; 10-08-2016 at 13:36.
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-08-2016, 16:26 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

@ToastyX I told you it is Working
And Yes on CRT FS also tries to change dynamically refresh (but for CRT it's a bad Idea, you catch my drift?)
and therefore you can catch this on camera NP.
the Idea of FreeSync on CRT is a little different, here i can observe better and fluent Gameplay when FPS drops e.g. form steady 62FPS to 48FPS it's not "feels" heavy when FS is ON and kickin'

But we need to focus on LCD/LED monitors ! Yeah the Majority of Gamers uses this today
I'm dino
   
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ToastyX
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Default 10-08-2016, 17:52 | posts: 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrai View Post
I can get it working over DVI-D and HDMI. For the DVI-D make sure you check enable the DVI_D option in the HDMI data block edit options. Both the same time.
If you mean the "DVI dual-link" option, that does not work for me. I've never seen that option work. It's part of the HDMI standard, but the driver seems to ignore it.

I could have sworn I used to be able to add an HDMI support data block to make the driver think it's HDMI, but this is not working with the RX 480. Maybe it'll work with the R9-series cards. Strangely, it still acts like single-link DVI, so it's having some effect.
   
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mtrai
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Default 10-08-2016, 18:09 | posts: 750 | Location: Panama City Beach, FL, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastyX View Post
If you mean the "DVI dual-link" option, that does not work for me. I've never seen that option work. It's part of the HDMI standard, but the driver seems to ignore it.

I could have sworn I used to be able to add an HDMI support data block to make the driver think it's HDMI, but this is not working with the RX 480. Maybe it'll work with the R9-series cards. Strangely, it still acts like single-link DVI, so it's having some effect.
I forgot I am using that DVI-D port with a DVI-D to HDMI cable that might be the difference.

/Edit I just double checked that monitor. I am in the process of re arranging my monitors and everything on my desk. That monitor is actually detected as HDMI, fresh GPU driver install and no CRU mods done yet. ( it has no DVI port a bit older and long in the tooth these days) It has no DVI port.) Model is Samsung S24B300.

Last edited by mtrai; 10-08-2016 at 18:27.
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 10-08-2016, 18:29 | posts: 17,415 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrai View Post
Nice Extradinary gonna test this with the TV as it drives me crazy anytime I switch it to the PC connection. Do you mean after the reboot or you reset-all and keep using the PC?
Actually just switching the refresh rate on the TV to 59Hz works fine, it is only 60Hz that causes the black screen

The reset-all.exe was just switching the TV back to 50Hz

No reboot needed, just switch to 50-59Hz
   
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ToastyX
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Default 10-08-2016, 21:15 | posts: 19

Okay, I got FreeSync working with the Catleap without a splitter. The HDMI support data block trick still works with the RX 480, but for some reason, I have to unplug the monitor from the DVI port and plug it back in before it's detected as HDMI. Then it will let me enable FreeSync. The problem is if I restart the driver or reboot, it goes back to detecting the monitor as DVI and disables FreeSync.

Strangely, this trick does not work on the HDMI port with an HDMI-DVI cable. It is always detected as DVI. This is so frustrating because this is a driver limitation, not a hardware limitation.
   
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OnnA
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Talking 10-08-2016, 21:51 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extraordinary View Post
Actually just switching the refresh rate on the TV to 59Hz works fine, it is only 60Hz that causes the black screen

The reset-all.exe was just switching the TV back to 50Hz

No reboot needed, just switch to 50-59Hz
He He, same on my side FreeSync on 56Hz don't work properly but on 57Hz ! it's Kickin' arse
Sometimes +1, sometimes -1 Do the trick

Last edited by OnnA; 10-08-2016 at 21:54.
   
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Extraordinary
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Default 10-08-2016, 22:00 | posts: 17,415 | Location: 127.0.0.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnnA View Post
He He, same on my side FreeSync on 56Hz don't work properly but on 57Hz ! it's Kickin' arse
Sometimes +1, sometimes -1 Do the trick
Learn something new every day Thanks for the tip lol
   
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ToastyX
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Default 10-09-2016, 04:28 | posts: 19

I found a way to show FreeSync is working. I noticed the refresh rate changes are also affecting the mouse cursor. I think this is the most convincing evidence that it's working because the mouse cursor works independently of the demo.

I set the camera's shutter speed to 1/10. As the refresh rate increases, the camera captures more mouse cursor frames in the same amount of time.

With FreeSync on at 35 FPS, it captures 4 mouse cursor frames:


With FreeSync on at 45 FPS, it captures 5 mouse cursor frames:


With FreeSync on at 60 FPS, it captures 7 mouse cursors frames:


With FreeSync off at 35 FPS, it still captures 7 mouse cursors frames:


Notice how with FreeSync off, the mouse movement is not affected by the frame rate because the refresh rate does not change.

I also checked with VSync on, and the results did not change.

I have two videos:

With FreeSync on, you can see the gaps between the mouse cursor frames increase as the refresh rate decreases:
http://www.monitortests.com/freesync/freesync-on.mp4

With FreeSync off, the mouse movement does not change, and you can see tearing in the windmill:
http://www.monitortests.com/freesync/freesync-off.mp4

FreeSync really is possible with DVI, and it's working without special hardware on a monitor made in 2012.
   
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OnnA
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Talking 10-09-2016, 04:37 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

I told that -> but as always some need Proof

Great Work ToastyX
   
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mtrai
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Default 10-09-2016, 10:19 | posts: 750 | Location: Panama City Beach, FL, USA

That is great work ToastyX, just what we needed. I wracked my brain for something to be able to show.
   
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mtrai
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Default 10-09-2016, 10:27 | posts: 750 | Location: Panama City Beach, FL, USA

On a slightly different note anyone know how to enter the secret/service menu on the LG monitors just the joysticks?
   
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Anarion
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Default 10-09-2016, 10:36 | posts: 12,844 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastyX View Post
I found a way to show FreeSync is working. I noticed the refresh rate changes are also affecting the mouse cursor. I think this is the most convincing evidence that it's working because the mouse cursor works independently of the demo.

I set the camera's shutter speed to 1/10. As the refresh rate increases, the camera captures more mouse cursor frames in the same amount of time.

With FreeSync on at 35 FPS, it captures 4 mouse cursor frames:


With FreeSync on at 45 FPS, it captures 5 mouse cursor frames:


With FreeSync on at 60 FPS, it captures 7 mouse cursors frames:


With FreeSync off at 35 FPS, it still captures 7 mouse cursors frames:


Notice how with FreeSync off, the mouse movement is not affected by the frame rate because the refresh rate does not change.

I also checked with VSync on, and the results did not change.

I have two videos:

With FreeSync on, you can see the gaps between the mouse cursor frames increase as the refresh rate decreases:
http://www.monitortests.com/freesync/freesync-on.mp4

With FreeSync off, the mouse movement does not change, and you can see tearing in the windmill:
http://www.monitortests.com/freesync/freesync-off.mp4

FreeSync really is possible with DVI, and it's working without special hardware on a monitor made in 2012.
This is rather nice bonus for AMD users. NVIDIA should start to support adaptive sync too...
   
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yobooh
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Default 10-09-2016, 11:41 | posts: 203 | Location: NAPLES

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
This is rather nice bonus for AMD users. NVIDIA should start to support adaptive sync too...
So is it possible to enable it with every DVI screen natively or is it needed a driver mod?
Or you just need the CRU freesync mod?

Last edited by yobooh; 10-09-2016 at 11:45.
   
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