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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-04-2016, 20:45 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrMinisterGR View Post
To be honest I don't believe that the monitor is actually changing refresh rates, which is the essence of Freesync.

On the other hand, the frame results (if the methodology is correct), seem to indicate that some sort of pacing mechanism in the driver is activated. Which would benefit everyone, Freesync or not. Since that mechanism is obviously software, I wonder if it could be activated for other cards and not only the ones that list Freesync.
No its not changing anything, it just have more stable output from GPU->Monitor
GPU(Driver)->Freesync->DP/HDMI (Bandtwith)->Monitor

IMO Freesync is just a new way to communicate between GPU->Monitor (This Tek is known from a long time, earlier called Corrected Frame Sync)

It not need special Hardware, but it needs Higher Bandtwith (thats why DP or New HDMI is better for this)

We need to dig it

Also Bratan' look into My FLA tests (Yes you asked for this, so i figured it out how to make FRAPS Working for WinX ;-))
And it seems that Frame Times are tighten and whenever i tested (in many Games) FreeSync ON V-Sync OFF is always Better in any Game ! DX9/10 DX11 and DX11.1 also in Vulcan (not Tested DX12 Yet)

As for my CRT im always Playing Games with V-Sync OFF (never used it before TBF)
it always complicate things when Playing when V-sync is ON, thats the reason im keeping this baby OFF (Yes its Great for LCD/LED but not for CRT)

In FC4 (im playing this game alot recently) is much better with FS ON, and interesting part is that Freesync is always enabled ! Yes even when FPS drops <60 !
Fluent Gaming all't'time

Last edited by OnnA; 10-05-2016 at 00:53.
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-04-2016, 21:52 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Here the good example is Shadow of Mordor becouse it shows Frame Variations when Testing Performance (Build in Bench)

Look in here (i can see this when gaming but here you have this in Graph)
Freesync Gaming is more Fluent

SoM FS-OFF / V-sync OFF (My Old Standard for Playing)
 Click to show spoiler


SoM FS-OFF / V-sync ON
 Click to show spoiler


SoM Freesync ON / V-Sync OFF (My NEW Standard for Playing)
 Click to show spoiler


Last edited by OnnA; 10-04-2016 at 21:57.
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-04-2016, 22:55 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

I have finished testing New NFS Udg3 DX11.1
FS ON and FS OFF no V-Sync

===========
 Click to show spoiler



Also here when Gaming with Freesync ON the FPS Dips are not Visible (you can't tell when it happends !)
e.g. from Steady 61 to 48-51FPS
GREAT
   
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Agonist
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Default 10-04-2016, 23:50 | posts: 2,222 | Location: Tennessee

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrMinisterGR View Post
To be honest I don't believe that the monitor is actually changing refresh rates, which is the essence of Freesync.

On the other hand, the frame results (if the methodology is correct), seem to indicate that some sort of pacing mechanism in the driver is activated. Which would benefit everyone, Freesync or not. Since that mechanism is obviously software, I wonder if it could be activated for other cards and not only the ones that list Freesync.

This is what people are trying to get out there that its not actually freesync dont agree he has activated freesync.

Its obviously some sort of frame pacing.
   
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PrMinisterGR
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Default 10-05-2016, 00:16 | posts: 6,572

The differences seem tiny, but I guess that's because Onna is constantly CPU bottlenecked. I don't have the time to check it out myself these days. I would really like to try and "enable" it with my card. And I mean the part where the driver is obviously doing frame pacing. He's got constantly lower stuttering, not by much. With a faster CPU we could probably see much higher differences.
   
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Odellot
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Default 10-05-2016, 00:22 | posts: 650 | Location: Philippines

Thanks TS...Manage to edit the Freesync Range of My Other Rig...

   
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OnnA
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Thumbs up 10-05-2016, 00:46 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odellot View Post
Thanks TS...Manage to edit the Freesync Range of My Other Rig...

Yes -> Thats the spirit !
And don't go lower than that 33 is an minimum right now (many users reported that 33 is an actual good range for them)
If something goes Blank/out of sync etc. try 34/35/36 etc. until it will be Solid
   
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OnnA
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Talking 10-05-2016, 00:49 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrMinisterGR View Post
The differences seem tiny, but I guess that's because Onna is constantly CPU bottlenecked. I don't have the time to check it out myself these days. I would really like to try and "enable" it with my card. And I mean the part where the driver is obviously doing frame pacing. He's got constantly lower stuttering, not by much. With a faster CPU we could probably see much higher differences.
YUP it's FreeSync (yeah its only a Name) or Corrected Frame Sync

But my Name for it is better The Corrected Frame Sync -> this is what i get from it.
And don't forget this can't be possible without FreeSync in ATI/AMD Drivers !
And of course CRU
   
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yasamoka
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Default 10-05-2016, 01:31 | posts: 4,267 | Location: Lebanon

You are NOT enabling FreeSync on your non-FreeSync monitor. Particularly a CRT (where variable refresh is basically impossible due to pixel decay).
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-05-2016, 04:05 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Freesync in Variable Refresh Rate Mode are only for LCD/LED HW
In CRT i have Freesync in Corrected Frame Sync Mode.

The Idea of Syncing Frames are very old
And it seems that FreeSync is very Flexible Tech.
   
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  (#36)
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Default 10-05-2016, 13:39 | posts: 86 | Location: Central IL

This program work for eyefinity/VSR resolutions also??
   
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OnnA
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Cool 10-05-2016, 14:10 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtech02 View Post
This program work for eyefinity/VSR resolutions also??
You tell me

Try and see, first run Demo (If OK then proceed to Gaming)
Also try 50,55,60 etc. for Low Range (lowest reported that acually working is 33)
Upper one is your Monitors Highest Refresh rate (put 75 here)
Also is good to have DP conected to Monitor, but i think HDMI should work also.

Last edited by OnnA; 10-05-2016 at 14:12.
   
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Default 10-05-2016, 20:30 | posts: 86 | Location: Central IL

Have to have active DP, DVI, and HDMI for my setup. Worst case scenario, i'm reformatting...
   
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Default 10-05-2016, 23:52 | posts: 19

Clearly some people here don't actually understand how FreeSync works. Don't assume this is impossible if you haven't tested it. Otherwise, you're just filling this thread with nonsense. People want to see results, not conjecture.

FreeSync works by varying the vertical blanking interval. ALL monitors support vertical blanking. It's part of the video signal. It's how the monitor knows where one frame ends and the next frame begins. The only question is whether the monitor can handle variable vertical blanking and longer blanking intervals. CRT monitors are basically controlled directly by the video signal, so this is more likely to work with a CRT. LCD monitors without scalers and laptop screens might also work. AMD themselves even demonstrated it working on existing hardware.

The problem is most LCD monitors on the market have scalers. LCD monitors with scalers are less likely to work without firmware changes because the scalers are usually designed to handle a limited range of refresh rates and timing parameters. The fact that some monitors are blacking out shows that it's actually doing something to the video signal and not just a driver toggle.

I can't test this right now because I don't have a FreeSync-capable video card, but I have one on the way. I wouldn't have thought to test this with a CRT, so OnnA deserves credit for that. Unfortunately, the only CRT I have is an old 14" with a limited range, but I also have an LCD monitor without a scaler that I'd like to test this on.
   
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ToastyX
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Default 10-05-2016, 23:56 | posts: 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisiv View Post
The "Admin" at MonitorTests who (almost) got confused by our techno-terrorist is actually CRU author!!!

basically he's saying that even if FreeSync worked on these no-FS displays, there ought to be flickering every time FPS goes up/down
which would be errr... kinda hard to miss,
and would render the hack useless for practical purposes (gaming)
That's not what I said at all. CRT monitors flicker with the refresh rate. This is visible when taking a video with a camera. If the refresh rate is actually changing, then the change in flicker should be visible in the video. I just want to see some evidence that it's working. If I can get it working with a CRT, I will do this test and post the results.
   
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Default 10-06-2016, 00:36 | posts: 750 | Location: Panama City Beach, FL, USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastyX View Post
Clearly some people here don't actually understand how FreeSync works. Don't assume this is impossible if you haven't tested it. Otherwise, you're just filling this thread with nonsense. People want to see results, not conjecture.

FreeSync works by varying the vertical blanking interval. ALL monitors support vertical blanking. It's part of the video signal. It's how the monitor knows where one frame ends and the next frame begins. The only question is whether the monitor can handle variable vertical blanking and longer blanking intervals. CRT monitors are basically controlled directly by the video signal, so this is more likely to work with a CRT. LCD monitors without scalers and laptop screens might also work. AMD themselves even demonstrated it working on existing hardware.

The problem is most LCD monitors on the market have scalers. LCD monitors with scalers are less likely to work without firmware changes because the scalers are usually designed to handle a limited range of refresh rates and timing parameters. The fact that some monitors are blacking out shows that it's actually doing something to the video signal and not just a driver toggle.

I can't test this right now because I don't have a FreeSync-capable video card, but I have one on the way. I wouldn't have thought to test this with a CRT, so OnnA deserves credit for that. Unfortunately, the only CRT I have is an old 14" with a limited range, but I also have an LCD monitor without a scaler that I'd like to test this on.

ToastyX you want me to post here or at CRU was having some issues which I think I got mostly worked out. I do have some questions for you that you might be able to help me resolve. I can do some videos tomorrow of where I have gotten with this. As I said OnnA deserves credit and we have been pm'ing about it.
   
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ToastyX
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Default 10-06-2016, 00:48 | posts: 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrai View Post
ToastyX you want me to post here or at CRU was having some issues which I think I got mostly worked out. I do have some questions for you that you might be able to help me resolve. I can do some videos tomorrow of where I have gotten with this. As I said OnnA deserves credit and we have been pm'ing about it.
Either way is fine.
   
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OnnA
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Talking 10-06-2016, 01:29 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

o_0 Our BIG Bratan' ToastyX

Welcome Here bro

Personally i think this revelation (That FreeSync or as i called it The Corrected Frame Sync) will be something Good for everybody.
It Really work with my CRT, and i have Better gameplay overall with FreeSync ON than with OFF.

So i'm just Happy THX to your work of course and ATI !

PS.
And Today i found another interesting thing about FreeSync on CRT !

It don't need range at all, 60-120 is OK, but i've changed it to 74-120 (I have 74,200Hz Setting for 1920:1440) and it's working like before 60-120, same output in FLA -> Flater, more fluent Frames Output when Gaming.
I've changed it becouse sometimes (rarely when gaming) it forced my CRT to 60Hz Grrrr then i make some tests (to be sure that this is still working) to 74-120 and Yup its working also, same good fluent gameplay.
Rarely e.g. ME:Catalyst when enetring options menu, FC4 when entering Map, Witcher III no problem, NFS16 Ung3 no problem (after it occurs it never ocured again in same game session, Yes after that gameplay is butter smooth, maby driver have to set it self for new Display or something like that)

Thats why IMO for CRT all we need is to Enable it and set. range - Default Hz for resolution i'm using for Desktop/Gaming for me it's 1920:1440 74.2Hz
I think this is specific for CRT and how CRT works, for LCD/LED must be different aproach thats why it change refresh dynamically.

ToastyX You know Monitors better, you can dig it better

Last edited by OnnA; 10-06-2016 at 02:18.
   
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ToastyX
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Default 10-06-2016, 03:58 | posts: 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnnA View Post
And Today i found another interesting thing about FreeSync on CRT !

It don't need range at all, 60-120 is OK, but i've changed it to 74-120 (I have 74,200Hz Setting for 1920:1440) and it's working like before 60-120, same output in FLA -> Flater, more fluent Frames Output when Gaming.
I've changed it becouse sometimes (rarely when gaming) it forced my CRT to 60Hz Grrrr then i make some tests (to be sure that this is still working) to 74-120 and Yup its working also, same good fluent gameplay.
I don't see how this could work. I don't think you're doing this right. You created a custom resolution to set 1920x1440 @ 74.2 Hz. You need to set the minimum refresh rate below that so it can increase the vertical blanking to lower the refresh rate as necessary. Otherwise, you're not doing anything except clamping the refresh rate to 74 Hz. Setting the maximum refresh rate to 120 Hz shouldn't do anything because FreeSync can't increase the refresh rate, and your monitor can't go higher anyway because of bandwidth limitations with the adapter.
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-06-2016, 11:56 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastyX View Post
I don't see how this could work. I don't think you're doing this right. You created a custom resolution to set 1920x1440 @ 74.2 Hz. You need to set the minimum refresh rate below that so it can increase the vertical blanking to lower the refresh rate as necessary. Otherwise, you're not doing anything except clamping the refresh rate to 74 Hz. Setting the maximum refresh rate to 120 Hz shouldn't do anything because FreeSync can't increase the refresh rate, and your monitor can't go higher anyway because of bandwidth limitations with the adapter.
I got same results in 60-120 and 74-120 (FRAPS + FLA)
Same smooth gameplay, i think FreeSync on CRT working little different than on LCD/LED
HW and technology related IMO
What i've observed it still working like it should (for CRT) so i have Corrected Frame Sync working OK.

For LED it an must to change dynamically refresh 30-40-50 etc. on the fly, on CRT that is impossible (on the fly) so it is working different way but the outcome is the same -> more fluent/stable FPS.
Maby on CRT it is (LFC) Low FrameRate Compensation.

Last edited by OnnA; 10-06-2016 at 15:15.
   
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Noisiv
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Default 10-06-2016, 12:12 | posts: 5,592

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastyX View Post
That's not what I said at all. CRT monitors flicker with the refresh rate. This is visible when taking a video with a camera. If the refresh rate is actually changing, then the change in flicker should be visible in the video. I just want to see some evidence that it's working. If I can get it working with a CRT, I will do this test and post the results.
Thats what I get for jumping to wrong conclusion. I don't mind being wrong. But do you really think change in refresh rate on CRT is seamless and unobservable to the naked eye like in FS-capable monitors?
   
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Redemption80
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Default 10-06-2016, 20:04 | posts: 17,575 | Location: Glasgow

Reading his post, i don't think he does think that.

While it has been many years since i used a CRT, i do remember anything under 75hz caused me issues quite quickly, so think if it did work it would causes seizures if it was constantly changing and assuming it would have to be set to never drop below 60hz.
   
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OnnA
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Lightbulb 10-06-2016, 20:32 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Tested today again, SoM trying to find most stable line.

FreeSync ON Vsync-OFF



Freesync OFF Vsync-OFF



Again The Winner is FreeSync, same thing in FC4 and ME + Witcher III
No matter how many times i will test it -> FreeSync Gaming is better on my Setup.

PS. Also FS don't change on the fly my Refresh rates, i have always 74.2Hz.
As i said it does rarely when entering Map or Settings screen on some games, not all games have this tho.

Also whatever this FreeSync on my CRT do -> I like it
Corrected Frame Syncing is my favorite ATI/AMD feature right now.

Last edited by OnnA; 10-06-2016 at 20:45.
   
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PrMinisterGR
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Default 10-06-2016, 20:44 | posts: 6,572

So FS basically leaves your refresh rate untouched, but it seems to do frame pacing. What does the red line signify in the graphcs you posted?
   
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OnnA
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Post 10-06-2016, 20:46 | posts: 2,756 | Location: HolyWater Village

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrMinisterGR View Post
So FS basically leaves your refresh rate untouched, but it seems to do frame pacing. What does the red line signify in the graphcs you posted?
Highest / Now / and Lowest FPS
Middle is actual FPS in that moment.

And i really like that frame pacing bro -> it's great

its like this IMO:

FreeSync ON & Driver -> Cable -> Monitor and the Magic is on Driver Side with FS ON
Hmm it is like the Driver+FS commands my CRT to do a better job (i know this is simple explanation)

Last edited by OnnA; 10-06-2016 at 20:59.
   
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