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dd4000
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Default 02-06-2017, 12:44 | posts: 52 | Location: Romania

Very hard to believe, but very easy to check. Thanks, will let you know.
   
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signex
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Default 02-06-2017, 13:11 | posts: 8,141 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd4000 View Post
Very hard to believe, but very easy to check. Thanks, will let you know.
LG has admitted it themselves.

I see that link isn't working on here, leave the spaces out: http:// 4k . com/news/lthree-of-lgs-4k-tvs-offer-pseudo-uhd-and-a-raw-deal-for-consumers-uh6400-uh6100-uf6800-16649/

It's also mentioned on this specification page: http://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/959c840

You have to scroll down a bit, it says RGBW, 2880 RGB + 960 (W) (W stands for White LED's)

Last edited by signex; 02-06-2017 at 13:13.
   
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dd4000
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Default 02-06-2017, 20:05 | posts: 52 | Location: Romania

As far as I know, RGBW stands for a pixel with 4 subpixels: R, G, B and W. Exactly like in the picture, just that the in last case (RGBW) the pixel is really a four subpixels group, not three as suggested by the yellow enclosures:

Therefor, the expression "RGBW, 2880 RGB + 960 (W)" does not make much sense to me. It implies that 2880 are RGB pixels and 960 are white? That is not RGBW, but rather RGB plus some white pixels.

P.S. That image is quite funny in the sense that it was suppose to show that somehow RGBW is weaker than RGB, by using those misleading yellow circle groupings in trying to suggest that white subpixels are useless. But all that it shows is that a RGBW panel has more subpixels then a RGB panel, therefor is a more complex technology which allows a higher number of possible colors per pixel.

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Default 02-06-2017, 20:30 | posts: 8,295 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd4000 View Post
As far as I know, RGBW stands for a pixel with 4 subpixels: R, G, B and W. Exactly like in the picture, just that the in last case (RGBW) the pixel is really a four subpixels group, not three as suggested by the yellow enclosures:

Therefor, the expression "RGBW, 2880 RGB + 960 (W)" does not make much sense to me. It implies that 2880 are RGB pixels and 960 are white? That is not RGBW, but rather RGB plus some white pixels.

P.S. That image is quite funny in the sense that it was suppose to show that somehow RGBW is weaker than RGB, by using those misleading yellow circle groupings. But all that it shows is that a RGBW panel has more subpixels then a RGB panel, therefor is a more complex technology which allows a higher number of possible colors per pixel.
No they are using 4 sub pixels but counting full pixel as 3 pixels similar fudging to samsung with early galaxy phones and the shared green pixel.
   
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dd4000
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Default 02-06-2017, 20:49 | posts: 52 | Location: Romania

Assuming that is correct, then it should have been "RGBW, 2880 RGB + 320 (W)", since W is only a third from a regular pixel (3 subpixels that is).
   
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Loophole35
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Default 02-07-2017, 21:13 | posts: 8,295 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd4000 View Post
Assuming that is correct, then it should have been "RGBW, 2880 RGB + 320 (W)", since W is only a third from a regular pixel (3 subpixels that is).
NO:

The true width resolution of the LG panel is 2880 RGBW pixels. Not 3840 RGB pixels. 11520 is the number of sub pixels in a standard RGB panel. Now the reason it is expressed as 2880 RGB + 960 W is the W is represented as a full pixel worth of white. In the LG panel it is actually 2880 sub pixels of each color red, green, blue and white. A normal panel is 3840 sub pixels of red, green and blue. Again both add up to the magic number of 11520 sub pixels.

Sharp tried something similar with adding a yellow sub pixel in but at 5760 sub-pixels (1440 RGB + 460 Y or 1440 sub-pixels of red, green, blue and yellow each) in a standard full HD screen the loss in sharpness overshadowed the bump in color.

Last edited by Loophole35; 02-07-2017 at 21:19.
   
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dd4000
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Default 02-08-2017, 08:49 | posts: 52 | Location: Romania

This is exactly why is missleading, 2880 RGB + 960W sounds like:
RGBWWWRGBWWW
RGBWWWRGBWWW
which is really not the case. In reality is something like:
RGBWRGBW
BWRGBWRG

And as I understand the reasoning for saying that this is not really 4K, the fact is that the ISO standard is not saying how to implement a 4K but only how a 4K should be recognized. It goes down to show correctly 3840 consecutive columns, no matter what technology is behind. If somebody will achieve this in the future by using only 100 vertical physical columns, it will be still called 4K. And saying that RGBW is not really a 4K panel is like saying that a BluRay 2160p video is not really 4K since the compression inevitably lead to some pixels being replaced with ones near them. If it looks like a 2160p than it is a 2160p.
   
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Default 02-08-2017, 12:41 | posts: 8,295 | Location: FLA,USA

Problem is RGBW is not as clear as RGB. And your analogy at the end of your statement is not helping you. I and many other know that there is truly no real 4K bluray's out. All UHD bluray movies currently available are remastered from 2.5-3k digital masters at best. Even ones that were filmed using 4K or IMAX cameras the UHD disk is mastered from a compressed source. Not really sure when we will see true UHD bluray movies that are released from 4K+ masters but when they do I will finally buy a UHD player.

The short of this is avoid low end LG TV's like the pleauge and maybe LG will stop using inferior technology to make their entry level panels.
   
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dd4000
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Default 02-08-2017, 12:54 | posts: 52 | Location: Romania

I tested it together with a Samsung 4K 2016 55", which we also have in the family, and I saw no differences at all with regards to sharpness, at least not from the couch. And since I like more the color reproduction of the LG and since I prefer it's WebOS 3.0 and the presence of the analog audio output, I will not sell it yet. Sorry!
   
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Loophole35
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Default 02-08-2017, 15:02 | posts: 8,295 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd4000 View Post
I tested it together with a Samsung 4K 2016 55", which we also have in the family, and I saw no differences at all with regards to sharpness, at least not from the couch. And since I like more the color reproduction of the LG and since I prefer it's WebOS 3.0 and the presence of the analog audio output, I will not sell it yet. Sorry!
On 55" TV you can't tell the difference between FHD and UHD at distances greater than 7'. So yeah you probably won't notice a difference. But you bought what you thought was a 4K TV and now find out is a faux 4K panel. If it were me I would not be pleased. And any smart OS is better than Samsung's with the exception of Vizio's.
   
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Redemption80
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Default 02-08-2017, 23:01 | posts: 17,715 | Location: Glasgow

Well it's good to know about the LG sets, as while i'm holding off for OLED to drop i know my brother is on the lookout for a decent value new TV.

Not sure the part about no true UHD discs so far, since i was looking at two (X:Men Apocalypse and Batman v Superman) on my lunchbreak.
   
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Loophole35
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Default 02-08-2017, 23:20 | posts: 8,295 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redemption80 View Post
Well it's good to know about the LG sets, as while i'm holding off for OLED to drop i know my brother is on the lookout for a decent value new TV.

Not sure the part about no true UHD discs so far, since i was looking at two (X:Men Apocalypse and Batman v Superman) on my lunchbreak.
Well BvS was filmed with cameras that max out at 3.2k resolution so again not a real 4K movie and X-men one of the cameras used was in fact capable of 6k and the movie was mastered in 4K interestingly the high speed scenes were film wit was 4K as well. So I stand corrected I did not realize that this movie was a true UHD.

In the case of BvS even if it was mastered in 4K if the source footage is sub 4K the quality can still suffer though it will look better that FHD.
   
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Redemption80
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Default 02-08-2017, 23:28 | posts: 17,715 | Location: Glasgow

Some scenes in BvS were filmed with a 3.2k camera, the majority of it wasn't and was much higher than 4k, likely going as high as "12k"
Obviously not on the UHD master though.

There are loads of them on that realorfake4k site, not as many as there should be mind, but it's not really a concern to me as it's entirely likely that some upscaled 3k movies look better than native 4k due to how they were filmed.

Kinda similar to the fact a well recorded piece of music on mp3 would sound better than a poor recorded 192/24bit flac file.
   
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Loophole35
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Default 02-08-2017, 23:31 | posts: 8,295 | Location: FLA,USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redemption80 View Post
Some scenes in BvS were filmed with a 3.2k camera, the majority of it wasn't and was much higher than 4k.

There are loads of them on that realorfake4k site, not as many as there should be mind, but it's not really a concern to me as it's entirely likely that some upscaled 3k movies look better than native 4k due to how they were filmed.

Kinda similar to the fact a well recorded piece of music on mp3 would sound better than a poor recorded 192/24bit flac file.
This is very true. Honestly BvS was a hate it or love it kind of movie cinematography wise. I personally loved it.

Was really hoping The Martian was true 4K was going to buy a UHD player just for that but alas it was not.

* too your edit.

35mm and 70mm are both technically beyond 4k resolution however what they use to transfer film to digital is now the weak link. Didn't realize they used such a diverse range of cameras in the filming of that movie hell everything from a GoPro hero 4 to a 35mm film camera that was released in 1995.

Last edited by Loophole35; 02-08-2017 at 23:37.
   
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Redemption80
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Default 02-08-2017, 23:47 | posts: 17,715 | Location: Glasgow

Yeah, Synder's movies are always something people love or hate when it comes to cinematography.
I saw that about The Martian, alot of movies were filmed around 2k or so when they first moved to digital, not ideal now though.

That's possible, but without knowing we just have to trust our eyes instead.
Assuming you saw the same imdb list as i did when it came to BvS, think that's the most i've yet to see

When it comes to a new TV for me, moving to OLED and HDR is so much more important than resolution when it comes to image quality, especially with special effects heavy movies.
   
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