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What are 3d Games anyways ??
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djevlen
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Default What are 3d Games anyways ?? - 08-20-2012, 11:55 | posts: 4

Hi all.

I hope some of u are 3d experts and can clarify this for me.

When a movie is a 3d movie then it means director was shooting with a camera with 2 lences, or 2 seperate cameras. This means that movie is not recorded from the center, but litlebit from the left angle and litlebit from the right angle just like our eyes are, and if those 2 images are put on a 3d TV, then the tv will combine them,u put 3d glasses on and u have 3d movie. A normal movie can never be a 3d movie because everything is recorded from the center, and converting from 2d to 3d looks just BAD. right ??

So, what about 3D games in 3D. This is where i get so confused. Are there any games out there which are displaying images from left and right angle(right and left camera) ? or they just render exactly thesame image 2 times for the left and for the right eye ?

And then there are iZ3D and tridef 3d companies who say..just install our drivers and everything will turn into 3D...How can anything be 3D if game/movie is just in 2D ??? They are just converting 2d games and movies into wannabe 3d games/movies or not ?

The closest experience i got in 3D gaming was in crysis 2 and Avatar 3D. I added r_StereoSupportAMD = 1 into the cfg file of the crysis game. go into the game menu. click 3d enable and walla..2 images side by sides. hit 3d button on the samsung 3d tv= VERY NICE.

Anyways...why i need some 3rd party drivers to get 3D working on ATI cards. It is the game that must add an extra camera into the screen in order to be real 3D or not , and the rest would be up to the 3d tv ??? Anything else would be converting 2d/3d games into 3D which isnt real 3D.


Yeasterday i tried enable 3d in bf3 when samsung 3d tv was connected. nothing happens. As far as i understood the game must sence that an minimum 120hz monitor must be connected to the graphic card in order to work. This is also something i dont understand. Lets say i would to play soundtrack in surround. The sountrack wont probe my hifi to see if it is sony or JVC or if they have surround capabilities.. the surround-track will just play in surround, and it is up to the hifi if it has the capabilities play it in surround. Or it is up to me if i have the right amount of speakers...

Why are these 3D games so anoying to get running in 3D.. Crysis 2 isnt probing anyting. It plays sbs when u ask it to even on a non 3d monitor, but at least i can see that it works, and then i can connect my 3D tv and enjoy the game in 3D.

..hope some one can clarify this 3D...

thanx

Last edited by djevlen; 08-20-2012 at 11:59.
   
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Ade 1
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Default 08-20-2012, 12:42 | posts: 600 | Location: Safe House

I suspect Tony Scott read your post before driving to the bridge!
   
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Mufflore
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Default 08-20-2012, 13:23 | posts: 10,209 | Location: United states of Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevlen View Post
So, what about 3D games in 3D. This is where i get so confused. Are there any games out there which are displaying images from left and right angle(right and left camera) ? or they just render exactly thesame image 2 times for the left and for the right eye ?
The screen is rendered twice, once for each eye position.

Quote:
And then there are iZ3D and tridef 3d companies who say..just install our drivers and everything will turn into 3D...How can anything be 3D if game/movie is just in 2D ??? They are just converting 2d games and movies into wannabe 3d games/movies or not ?
Games are 3D internally and are normally shown from one position, thats how they get the perspective correct for objects at different distances.
Drawing in Stereo is almost trivial.

Quote:
The closest experience i got in 3D gaming was in crysis 2 and Avatar 3D. I added r_StereoSupportAMD = 1 into the cfg file of the crysis game. go into the game menu. click 3d enable and walla..2 images side by sides. hit 3d button on the samsung 3d tv= VERY NICE.

Anyways...why i need some 3rd party drivers to get 3D working on ATI cards. It is the game that must add an extra camera into the screen in order to be real 3D or not , and the rest would be up to the 3d tv ??? Anything else would be converting 2d/3d games into 3D which isnt real 3D.
Because ATI dont provide a 3D renderer, the game has to have it built in or a program like Tridef is needed.

Quote:
Yeasterday i tried enable 3d in bf3 when samsung 3d tv was connected. nothing happens. As far as i understood the game must sence that an minimum 120hz monitor must be connected to the graphic card in order to work. This is also something i dont understand. Lets say i would to play soundtrack in surround. The sountrack wont probe my hifi to see if it is sony or JVC or if they have surround capabilities.. the surround-track will just play in surround, and it is up to the hifi if it has the capabilities play it in surround. Or it is up to me if i have the right amount of speakers...
For shutter glasses, frames on screen have to be synced with the glasses, otherwise you get bad flicker.
If you have a game running at 60fps per eye, thats a total of 120fps, needing 120Hz.
You can also do the same (60fps per eye) with a 60Hz polarised TV because both eyes are transmitted simultaneously from different lines of pixels.
I have one and it literally is as simple as play a 3D Blu Ray or game in 3D and it looks 3D with the glasses on, but the desktop is still 2D, no adjustment of the TV needed.
You can also play side by side and other 3D material and tell the TV to sort out the displaying.

Quote:
Why are these 3D games so anoying to get running in 3D.. Crysis 2 isnt probing anyting. It plays sbs when u ask it to even on a non 3d monitor, but at least i can see that it works, and then i can connect my 3D tv and enjoy the game in 3D.

..hope some one can clarify this 3D...

thanx
Without knowing anything about your hardware, cant help.
   
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djevlen
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Default 08-20-2012, 13:45 | posts: 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufflore View Post


Because ATI dont provide a 3D renderer, the game has to have it built in or a program like Tridef is needed.


Thanx Mufflore

So in this case crysis 2 have a build in 3D renderer but bf3 does not ?

If thats the case, then ur answer helped me alot figuring out why some games work out of the box and other games dont.

But this information is never written on game DVD cover... How can if find out if BF3 has build in 3D renderer or not.

So 3D games could be put in 2 categories 1: 3D ready(supports 3D but no 3D renderer, and 2: 3D (build in 3D renderer) ??

Is the thinking correct ?

Thanx
   
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nhlkoho
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Default 08-20-2012, 13:48 | posts: 7,087 | Location: Washington DC

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Originally Posted by Ade 1 View Post
I suspect Tony Scott read your post before driving to the bridge!
That's horrible.....but I still LOL'd
   
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djevlen
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Default 08-20-2012, 13:51 | posts: 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlkoho View Post
That's horrible.....but I still LOL'd

You noobs..

Pls stick to the topic..

Questions are maybe silly if you are expert on the subject...But if you have no clue, then you need to start learning somewhere....even by asking wrong / silly questions..

btw.. I also LOL'd even though it is terrible funny comment.

...thanx

Last edited by djevlen; 08-20-2012 at 13:55.
   
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Mufflore
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Default 08-20-2012, 14:02 | posts: 10,209 | Location: United states of Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevlen View Post
Thanx Mufflore

So in this case crysis 2 have a build in 3D renderer but bf3 does not ?
If the game allows you to select the stereo mode then the game can render in stereo.

Quote:
But this information is never written on game DVD cover... How can if find out if BF3 has build in 3D renderer or not.
Almost no games come with their own 3D renderer, they rely on programs like iZ3D, Tridef, NVidia 3DVision to draw 2 frames, one for each eye.
If you want to make good use of your 3D monitor for gaming, you are going to need one of them.

Quote:
So 3D games could be put in 2 categories 1: 3D ready(supports 3D but no 3D renderer, and 2: 3D (build in 3D renderer) ??
If your category is whether the game can render in stereo, then yes.
But then you have to make sure the renderer you use supports the game properly.
   
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djevlen
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Default 08-20-2012, 14:10 | posts: 4

Thank you Mufflore

It helped a lot
   
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Glidefan
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Default 08-20-2012, 14:11 | posts: 12,304 | Location: Solar System, Earth, Med, Cyprus

@ Mufflore.
Rendering in stereo is not a trivial matter because of all the cheats going on behind the scenes when it comes to games.
Like the HUD, or the character's weapon in FPS games. (Its always visible even if you are right up on a wall which normally would clip your gun inside the wall.
Plus, that if they did it as it should, with the camera in the character's head and the gun in the right place when it comes to geometry, it would look funny.

I'm not saying that what you said is wrong or that your advice is wrong.
Just for the trivia thing.
There was a video of carmack's keynote speech and he touched the stereo part.
   
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Default 04-05-2013, 17:42 | posts: 54 | Location: Tulsa, OK

it is bunch of bologna is what it is!! Just another way to take your money for technology that is not need. Personally I think 3d sucks, I dont like the movies 3d and I dont want a game 3d. Anyway for them to take more of my dollar.
   
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Mufflore
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Default 04-05-2013, 19:10 | posts: 10,209 | Location: United states of Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glidefan View Post
@ Mufflore.
Rendering in stereo is not a trivial matter because of all the cheats going on behind the scenes when it comes to games.
Like the HUD, or the character's weapon in FPS games. (Its always visible even if you are right up on a wall which normally would clip your gun inside the wall.
Plus, that if they did it as it should, with the camera in the character's head and the gun in the right place when it comes to geometry, it would look funny.

I'm not saying that what you said is wrong or that your advice is wrong.
Just for the trivia thing.
There was a video of carmack's keynote speech and he touched the stereo part.
Technically it is trivial as long as the game, as you say, hasnt been programmed with cheats to fix little issues.
3D apps like Tridef allow customisation to counter many of the issues.
New game profiles are released soon after the game with most of the issues solved.
Enterprising forum members sometimes post their own creations with solutions to remaining issues.

HUD issues and other non 3D textures/text have common correction techniques, they have been fixing these for years.
   
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Default 05-09-2013, 04:56 | posts: 649 | Location: Wa

Im a 3D movie lover and a 3D gamer. Its one of the reasons I switched to Geforce. None of this TriDef or Iz3D crap. Nvidia has got their act together for 3D. I wish AMD would hurry the heck up and do the same thing. Until they do they shouldn't be advertising their misleading info on the box. The reason I even bought my last AMD card was at the time I bought a 3D HDTV and thought "hey cool I'll buy this and go hook it up for some 3D gaming", Boy was I wrong.. I had to use 3rd party drivers that have nothing to do with AMD. Ditch AMD for 3D gaming and use the real deal, Nvidia all the way.
   
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Default 06-17-2014, 05:19 | posts: 109 | Location: New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogard View Post
it is bunch of bologna is what it is!! Just another way to take your money for technology that is not need. Personally I think 3d sucks, I dont like the movies 3d and I dont want a game 3d. Anyway for them to take more of my dollar.
I call BS on this. Sounds like someone who has never experience a proper 3d Stereoscopic experience, probably only depth buffer 3d (fake)It's a game changer when done right.

I was initially sceptic but now I can't bring myself to playing in 2d anymore it feels like you a playing a painting rather than being in a world..

I agree 3d movies are a gimmick most of then are not true 3d anyway. Gaming is a different story

Try playing the batman games, Guild wars 2, or Deadspace or trine 2 and tell me its a gimmick.

The real reason it hasn't taken off is ignorance like this...
   
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TheLastOfUs
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Default 06-17-2014, 22:06 | posts: 21

3D gaming has honestly died. Gimmick at best. It's not ignorance...it's reality. Was a fad to make money. Now it's all VIRTUAL REALITY THIS/THAT. Virtual Reality as I tried Morpheus isn't even that good!
   
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PhazeDelta1
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Default 06-17-2014, 23:05 | posts: 15,646 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diernes View Post
I call BS on this. Sounds like someone who has never experience a proper 3d Stereoscopic experience, probably only depth buffer 3d (fake)It's a game changer when done right.

I was initially sceptic but now I can't bring myself to playing in 2d anymore it feels like you a playing a painting rather than being in a world..

I agree 3d movies are a gimmick most of then are not true 3d anyway. Gaming is a different story

Try playing the batman games, Guild wars 2, or Deadspace or trine 2 and tell me its a gimmick.

The real reason it hasn't taken off is ignorance like this...

As someone who has play those games you listed, 3D gaming is highly overrated. Instead of wasting resources on something very few people have interest in, developers should instead focus those resources on making better quality games. When the time is right and more people are interested in it, then I can see investing more resources into it.

Last edited by PhazeDelta1; 06-17-2014 at 23:07.
   
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Default 06-20-2014, 13:04 | posts: 1,965 | Location: Calgary Canada®

https://forums.geforce.com/default/board/49/3d-vision/

This is probably the best place to get help and answers on 3D Vision. There's some very helpful people there and lot's of tweaks and tips.
   
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Citizen47
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Default 07-13-2014, 08:16 | posts: 52 | Location: Earth

3d gaming is on a halt right now, it will come back I guarantee it. Just like 3d cinemas was a big deal in the 60s (red/green glasses).

I think some movies are better for 3d then others, and so is games. There are no doubt its a more immersive experience especially with virtual reality.

Yes in games or 3d animations you can setup two cameras for rendering and get real 3d when you combine those images.
   
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Default 07-13-2014, 08:23 | posts: 5,925 | Location: Israel

3D if far better than 4k or any other new shiny tech, shame that it is on halt. games that made with 3D in mind are mind blowing, like all batman series with 3D Vision. Metro series, BC2, DMC5 and many more... 3D Vision is the best way to go and hopefully more games will be native 3D
   
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Default 07-13-2014, 08:39 | posts: 9,969

Why keep bringing back this crap from the dead?
   
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Default 07-27-2014, 05:45 | posts: 1,965 | Location: Calgary Canada®

Quote:
Originally Posted by moab600 View Post
3D if far better than 4k or any other new shiny tech, shame that it is on halt. games that made with 3D in mind are mind blowing, like all batman series with 3D Vision. Metro series, BC2, DMC5 and many more... 3D Vision is the best way to go and hopefully more games will be native 3D
Sadly, with next to NO support from Nvidia, the small and getting smaller community of 3D Vision modders is dying slowly. Don't expect much if anything 3D Vision related or supported from Nvidia anytime soon.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/t...-times-ahead-/
   
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Default 07-27-2014, 07:46 | posts: 5,925 | Location: Israel

Not really nvidia fault, it's kinda sad but the fact that 3D didn't do well. that is shame, cause i play on 3D Vision and nothing comes close to it, nothing.
   
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