bought a 9800GX2 and I'm Mad as Hell

So I started pc gaming again(after about 12 years) on an 8600 GT and I was content playing Halo, Halo2, Starcraft, CNCIII, Even GoW, Then I got Crysis and it was playable but I was sure it could look better. I upgraded to an SLi MOBO and Stacked the RAM got a Dual Core and an additional 8600GT and at 1024x768(as much as I could do on my outdated HDTV) in SLi it looked pretty good. Then I upgraded my drivers and it all went to hell:bang:. I got pissed wiped the system and reinstalled Vista got it back running and to my surprise I had all kinds of issues with Crysis. I got pissed and booted a linux disk used a utility to zero out the HDD's. Reinstalled Vista. Now Crysis seems fine. for a week or so .. Then Frames with .4 - 7 FPS:bang:. I got Pissed pulled the 8600's out and stomped on one, and broke my mouse:bang::biggun:. I drank half a bottle of Jack daniels and passed out uke2:I woke up around noon the next day(I think it was actually the day after the next being that this all took place around 4am). I dumped the remaining alcohol down the drain and put my pc in the closet(after taking half a dozen aspirin). I didn't look at it for another 2 or three months. Then I got the itch to play again. vaugly remembering that I had destroyed one video card I knew I would have to look for a new one. I went to the newly reopened+relocated CompUsa. I did not buy anything because there were so many new video cards on the shelves. I did some research and found that I could offload physx to a lesser GPU while having a better one do my Graphics and 3D. I found a guide for doing that. So armed with stats and all I went back to Compusa and bought a 9800Gx2 and a new 22" monitor. I have since uninstalled and reinstalled drivers from the 175.16 -> 177.92(or .98 can't remember how high) versions. I have manually installed the PhysX. I have gone through the format and reformat and reformat and reformat deal about 7 or 8 times. I format when iterations of driver removal and reinstallation don't seem to chang anything because I won't lose anything as this is strictly a gaming machine. I have called XFX, Nvidia and Crytek(EA) for support and each subsequently passes the buck. Here is what I am not understanding:

1. only the gx2 is installed and I can set it to SLi or MultiMonitor mode in the CP. add the 8600 for offloading Physx and the Gx2 goes into multimonitor mode with no option to put it into SLi mode.

2. I ignore the fact that I'm now only getting 1/2 the performance I should be getting from the Gx2 and go to the Physx CP and WTF? I can use Gforce Physx or none but I am given no option to choose which GPU physx is run on.

Were those instructions on how to do that a hoax? I followed the instructions exactly. I am still within time to return the Gx2 I am considering doing that and getting another 8600GT and waiting until DX11 or 12 comes out and upgrading then.

Is it just that Nvidia doesn't have their S---- together enough and hasn't released suitable drivers for the 9 series cards?
it seems that 200 series cards are newer. I can only imagine what people that bought those are going through.

I am an AMD fanboy for CPU Nvidia for Chipset and GfX but I am about ready to dump Nivida and go AMDChipset+ATIvidcard+Intel and say F-u to nShidia all around.



Thanks for reading, I partially needed to blow some steam/express an experience/ask those questions. BTW my case is more then adequately cooled7xfans 6x120 1x80(behind the CPU block) I have airconditioning and I keep it cranked here is south florida. My temps at idle are around 37/39CPU's and 42/48/38GPU's loads at 68/71CPU's 69/50/38GPU's... Just proof that you cannot currently use a Gx2 and a different card in a vistaX64 machine contrary to what Nvidia and others say... but hey thats my experience maybe someone out there can open my eyes and explain how to do this.

 

holy ****, youre a nut job and need to invest in some mental help classes. im too in shock to lend a hand, i wouldnt even stomp on a redlining fx5200

 

Afaik SLI only works with two (or three) identical cards or at least of the same model. GX2 by itself can work in SLI mode because it emulates two 9800 GTX's but installing a different card in the second slot will prevent SLI from working because the system "sees" two different cards. That's the first problem. A second problem is that when two different vidcards are used the graphics system performance is downgraded to that of the slowest of the two cards, so right now you are limited to 8600 speed. Get rid of the 8600 and let the GX2 handle Physx by itself, it'll do much better. If you really need two monitors plug them both on the GX2. If you want to upgrade video performance you could add a second GX2 but I hear that quad-sli is still reserved to the adventuresome among us.

The 9 series drivers are fine but performance is hardware-dependent.

As you have been away from PC gaming for many years I think you could use a sitrep.

Here's the topo for gamers: the ideal system consists of an Intel C2D (Core2Duo dual-core CPU) of the E8400/8500/8600 series or Intel quad-core of the QX9xxx (Extreme) series coupled with an Intel X38/48 chipset board and either one of the fastest ATi or nVidia cards or, for the wealthy extremist, a pair of the fastest ATi cards.

The Intel chipset is not compatible with SLI so if you choose an nVidia card make it a fast one. That said, nVidia cards work like a dream on the Intel chipset, better than they do on nVidia chipsets, go figure. As for ATi the sky -or the thickness of one's wallet- is the limit because the Intel chipset features Crossfire therefore one can use up to two 4870 X2's which I reckon would be the fastest setup available for the moment.

 

http://techgage.com/article/nvidias_physx_performance_and_status_report_-_part_2/

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/08/13/nvidia-releases-physx-for-8-9-and-gtx-2xx-series/1

http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?showtopic=26256

http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t75015.html <-- particularly has me bugged. it shows you how to choose which card will use physx. I don't have that option. even as it is I should have two 9800gx2's listed and an 8600 being that my Gx2 SLi is broken. or at least I should have the two Gx2's listed. it's nonsensical. the SLi is virtualized via software(drivers) it should not just disappear because a second(third) card is installed.

Additionally I can't use the driver insturmentation with 8GB of ram. I take out 4GB and it works. This is just more proof that Nvidia needs to get on top of stuff.

 

if im right you cant use 1 of the gpus on your gx2 for only physx. like i can't have 3 gpus for gaming and 1 for physx. would be nice though.

 

Nvidia needs to make their driver architechture more extensible. they could for example eliminate the SLi bridge. There is ample bandwidth(70GT/s at up to 4GB/s each way) in the PCIx16 v2.0 spec for four video cards to communicate with one another and recieve instructions and data from the the CPU and RAM that the SLi functionality could be completely virtualized. How is the 9800Gx2 able to be SLi or seperate at the check of a radio button in the CP? because the sli function is virtualized in the drivers which again begs the question why can't I see that option in the CP? So what I have an 8600 in the other slot. I never connected the SLi bridge between it and the Gx2. So why doesn't the Nv CP just leave the Gx2 the hell alone and also see the 8600? this also makes me wonder why you couldn't just disable the SLi for the second card and using the bridge tri SLi your Gx2's and use the fourth GPU for Physx. The answer is immature drivers. They maybe hypothesized that some people might think about this stuff but I don't think they planned and people doing it and sure as hell haven't addressed it. I have been looking at my drivers in a HEX editor to see if I can hack them to see two video cards a Gx2 in SLi and an 8600 just kicking about. I'll let you guys know if I have luck.... What I really think is that they have gotten so keen on making this homgenized driver that works with all of their cards that they have lost sight of making quality drivers for each chipset and configuration. I mean each mobo chipset has it's own drivers based on what the manufacturer put on the board. why not have the same for vid cards. if you have an 8600 it has the 8600 driver if you have an 8800 it has the 8800 driver not one big driver that has components left off or turned on based on what you have plugged into the mobo. I believe that this is probably the root of my problem.

 

I fully understand your frustration and I have broken hardware because I was angry too. Disregard poster number two who either needs to learn that what you wrote was actually quite funny, because we've all been in that situation, or was just trying to be cute and thinking non-constructive posting is funny.

You do need to calm down and understand the way hardware works. SLI/XFire work in certain ways and pairing two different cards with eachother doesn't work, regardless whether one card is actually two cards in one. In the end you disable SLI because of the 8600. SLI and XFire do need to be made more flexible but, as I see it, there's a lot of injustice that rank a lot higher than SLI/XFire. So, remove the 8600 and a lot of your problems should disappear.

Another problem you might have is Vista. I haven't tried Vista but have you tried running XP and testing performance? If not then you should, XP might be better, who knows?

 

Thanks liranan

here is correspondence with Nvidia
first is my question to Them. ane their response.


Customer (Golden) 09/23/2008 07:19 PM
I have a 9800Gx2 as my primary card. I have an 8600GT in the other pcix16 slot. I planned on offloading the physX to the 8600GT while letting my Fresh 9800Gx2 push my frames and quality way up. I noticed a queer thing when I got my system all installed and ready to blaze. The PhysX CP(version 8.8.18) was missing the option to choose which card would handle physx. Also in the Nvidia control panel My Gx2 was not in SLi and had no option to put into SLi. I am assuming that the drivers are still a little immature and that this will be available in the future. I can't imagine why just having a different card in the other pcix slot would split my Gx2.




Hello Golden,

Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

This is (Identity Protected by Golden) answering your e-mail.

I understand from your mail that you have a GeForce 9800 GX2 graphics card and a GeForce 8600 GT graphics card in your computer with the driver, 177.92 and Windows Vista installed in your computer. The PhysX CP(version 8.8.18) was not having the option to choose which graphics card would handle PhysX. In addition, in the NVIDIA control panel, you do not have the option to enable SLI for your GeForce 9800 GX2 graphics card.

Please be informed that, in order to handle the PhysX using your GeForce 8600 GT, I request you to remove the PhysX CP (version 8.8.18) from the "Programs and Features" that you find in the Windows control panel and then visit the web link given below, download the latest PhysX System Software 8.09.04 and install it so that your GeForce 8600 GT card will handle the PhysX:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_8.09.04_whql.html

Now, in order to enable "multi GPU" option for your GeForce 9800 GX2 card, please follow the steps given below:

1. Click on the Start button on your desktop and select the option "Control Panel”.
2. In the Control Panel window, double click on the icon "NVIDIA control panel"
3. In the NVIDIA control panel window, click on the "3D settings" and under "Performance", click on "set multi-GPU configuration" and then select the option "multi GPU mode".

Please feel free to contact us for further questions.

Best Regards,
(Identity Protected by Golden)
NVIDIA Customer Care




So you see I am not dreaming and making stuff up. Even Nvidia's techs seem to think it's possible and even have instructions for doing so. What they can't see is that I have the latest 08.09.04 physx drivers and I still don't have the option to choose one of my "three" video cards to run physx, not even of the two cards from the gx2. I'm just hoping that they will be able to help me get this fingerd out.

 

I didn't read the others post, but didn't a second card for physx need to be connected to a monitor (could be the same using VGA entry)?

Otherwise, nvidia and Ms could try to work together and make drivers better u.u

 

errr, Crysis DOES NOT use Physix( so that 8600 is a complete and total waste in that rig for Crysis ), jez at least check out what youre going to get and why before getting it

 

lol crysis doesnt use PhysX so whats the point?

the GX2 doesn't "software emulate SLI"... open it up and look at the two boards bridged together

PhysX on nvidia cards is still fairly new, it takes a lot of tinkering to get things working properly with SLI + a dedicated PhysX GPU (if it even works properly at all right now. Maybe in Big Bang II)

If you install the GX2, and make sure its in SLI mode, then put in the 8600... the GX2 will still be in SLI mode even though there is no longer a control panel button for it. (You can check this using the Nvidia system information or other 3rd party apps)

the problem of 4gb to 8gb of ram has nothing to do with the issue you are experiencing. sorry!

Just relax a bit, take out the 8600, and play Crysis in SLI on your 9800GX2

performance is stellar.

 

Wow sherlock you sure have it figured out huh? The rig isn't just for Crysis it's also for UTIII and GoW and Mass Effect and Halo and halo2 and cod4 and CNCIII and starcraft and W/E else I decide I want to play on it.

The point is that I decided to get a Gx2 so that I would have an better quality gaming experience on my pc. Then I saw an article and instructions about using My Gx2 in SLi and having the 8600 installed as well so that Physx could be handled separately by it. The 8600 was mothballed otherwise. I read a little more and found confirmation of this by nvidia. I proceeded to do what is possible to be done and it does not work.

I did set my Gx2 to SLi and then shut down and then install the 8600 and found that my Gx2 was bumped out of SLi. I have 5 monitor connections available, three from the Gx2 and two from the 8600. the CP lists two 9800Gx2 graphics. GPU-z lists two 9800Gx2's and an 8600. Riva Tuner lists two 9800Gx2's and an 8600. I have one monitor plugged into the Gx2 (same port as when it was in SLi) and one plugged into the 8600, extended desktop or not physx CP does not let me choose which card will handle Physx. There is something wrong with the drivers and the way they function..

Physically strapped or not the drivers/CP should allow you to choose which cards will participate in SLi as long as they are eligible to do so. what logically should prevent two 9800Gx2's one in each pcix slot with a bridge on them from being set to dual, triple or quad SLi?

and yes 4GB/8GB does matter. some applications/drivers are not capable of addressing >4GB. This is especially true of applications/drivers that address hardware directly. This is a legacy of consumer grade programming. I have a video capture card WinTV PVR-150. It will not work due to drivers being written with the assumption that users will be using a 32-bit windows OS that will not have >3GB of ram. If I take out 4GB it works fine, if I have >4GB it doesn't work. I have confirmed this with Happauge Tech Support. The same is true of the build of vistx64 that I have. If i try to install vista with >3GB it will Blue screen every time. If I remove 3 sticks of ram and bring the rig down to 2GB vista will install fine. The Nvidia hardware monitor also suffers from this as well as the driver instrumentation. Have I considered that one of my ram modules may be bad? yes as soon as I tried to install vista and it just crashed repeatedly, I ran the memtest included on the vista disk for about 10 hours while I slept and had no errors. I then tried to install vista again, same problem so I got a usb minilinux with MemTest86+ and let that run for about 12 hours while I was at work and school with no errors. Why do I have 8GB of ram? Because I can. Why don't I just remove 4GB? Because I should not be limited by how much I have. I should only be limited by how little I have. As I said before. This all has to do with programming conventions of yore. The problem needs to be addressed at a lower level. Newer applications and drivers need to have a method for detecting the amount of ram installed and address it properly.

is there anything else I need to explain?
for example I can explain why dedicated RAID controllers are 1000x beter then onboard or why your downloads on DSL seem so much slower then the free WiFi at your local panera or starbucks. if you like.

 

Theres no need to be a gimp about it, you specifically mentioned Crysis and that should be the only game giving you trouble, so WTF with the 8600?

All those games bar Crysis run maxed out on my 8800GT nevermind a Gx2, i mean cmon, i can run CoD on my 40" @ 1920x1080 with 45-50FPS average

look, no matter what you read, double cards with 1 as a dedicated Physix card are new( and cards arent sold as such ), anything new in that context is basically alpha or beta. Confirmation of this by nvidia means squat because it comes under their supported physix drivers campaign, which last i heard only had support for UT3 & Ghost Recon 2 ( but ill admit may have more games now )

OK, but WTF does monitor connections have to do with anything? or extended desktops????

no, theres no need for selection, but yes regaring 2 GX2s etc thats possible and at full speed if you have the lanes

yep, if you need more memory

yes, 32 bits applications

DMA access, while not direct on x86 platforms ends up as such, all hardware occupies physical ram, therefore 4gig wont be 4 gig available for ram

Its a legacy of compatibility, you want full access get a 64bit OS

well you cant access >4GB so whats the point?

That i cant explain, you need 64 bit drivers, but your ram sounds faulty

your ram is fu**ed and no matter how you tell it if it doesnt work its fecked, 8 gig or 1 gig one( or more ) of the sticks is ubar

yes, why have you taken 1 problem and spread it into several?

and youre trying to prove?

 

consult this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhysX then look at the games that I currently own.

I said previously that I should not be limited by what I have. I.E. just because I only have a hand full of physx games does that mean I should not care about the fact that I have hardware capable of running in a specific way and it does not? I want to run my stuff the way I want to because by all indications I can.

monitor connections/extended desktop has everything to do with getting the second card to be utilized. according to the tutorial on how to do what I trying to do the desktop has to be extended to the second card for it to be usable.

notepad++, alcohol 120%, Pinnacle Game Profiler, adobe CS2, etc... are all 32bit apps yet they run perfectly fine w/out being in legacy mode.

oh and the capture card does have 64 bit drivers. the problem is that they are not really 64bit drivers but merely a port of the 32 bit ones so that they will install on a 64bit OS, namely Vista.

when I first got vista x64 I had to run with 32-bit drivers and they worked.

I have WIndows Vista x64. the installer for x64 is still 32-bit

My ram is ok. I have done over 20 hours of Memtests. they have all gone over without a hitch. and yes I can access >4GB.

I have addressed several items outside of the scope of my original post because (you)"people" seem to be able to diagnose things that they have no knowledge about.

I am proving that I am not a complete idoit when it comes to computers as a whole. I have been out of PC GAMING for about 12 years. I have been working with/on computers, networks, mainframes, and clusters since then. I am just new to this newest generation of gaming. I initally built this machine with winXPx64 and 8GB of ram funny thing is the xpx64 installer had no probelm with 8GB of ram. I do video editing and graphics now on a different system so I decided to dedicate this one to bleeding edge gaming. my production system has 16GB of ram and still runs xpx64 with 8 GB partitioned as a ram drive. it also has a pair of of dual core opterons. The 16 port RAID pcix16 controller also has no problems. The point is that there is all his hype about how great PC gaming is and how having more is better, but, that all seems to be a farce. I feel suckered. I bought great equipment with the expectation that I would have a great experience. instead I have had frustration and anguish.

 

Let me put it this way . I bought a brand new car with the expectation that everything that it came with would work the way it has been advertised to. Engine, A/C, Radio, sunroof, power windows/doorlocks/steering, tires.... if it came packed up in a crate that I had to haul home with me and when I got home found that it came with square wheels and a loaf of moldy bread hanging out of the DIN(stereo) slot, I would be MAD AS HELL. Especially if I called the manufacturer and they said "Well we know we said it would come with all this stuff and round wheels and a stereo, But, We have'nt figured out how to make those quite yet so this is what you get. Even though you came here and purchased with the expectation that you would get what you paid for. you're just going to have to wait until we get around to making those items."

That would be unacceptable.

So is this. Yes I have expressed my frustration with Nvidia and I have even been calm and cool with them. I am a really laid back guy. The point that I got to where I smashed my other 8600 was a very rare occasion(in fact I can't remember when I've ever gotten that angry otherwise) that just happened to coincide with other things that frustrated me.

I will let you know when I get this resolved. I have been in communication with Nvidia and have even had them Remote into my machine and dig around to try and find the problem which they can't and has them baffled because according to them it should just work.

 

Welcome to PC gaming mate, it can be 'emotional' to say the least.

There is new drivers out today 178.13, try those maybe. Don't forget to use a good 3rd party drivercleaning app (drivercleaner.net or driversweeper) after removal of old and before installing new drivers.

I can't help wondering if you'd have been better of getting a 280gtx, it may have caused u less dramas/confusion being the single card it is.
Also they are generally cheaper and faster then GX2.

Good luck

 

just be patient and wait for the next 180.xx driver set from nvidia in which they have promised to fix many of the issues you are having trying to run a SLI config + a dedicated physx GPU.

you can't say that just because you bought a brand new car from the showroom and when you get it home the manufacturer releases a new chip causing it to use less fuel that it should automatically work on your vehicle...

you kinda have to just suck it up and wait until everything is ironed out. did the 9800gx2 physical box say "use this card and then a second card as a physx processor?" no it didnt. so don't assume it will work right away when work is still being done on this technology through drivers.

 

as for your vista 64bit copy, is it a vista 64bit cd WITH SP1? because without sp1 there was a problem where you couldn't install the OS with more than 2 (or was it 4?) gb of ram. You had to install with 2-4gb, update to SP1, and put the rest of your ram in.

but perhaps you already knew that

 

I would expect some problems from a $500 car but if I paid $30,000 for a video card it better run flawless for quite a while or else...

What I'm getting at is that high-end computer hardware is often put on the market while still in a somewhat experimental stage and that some of the advertised features is stuff that the manufacturer hopes will work. The customer/guinea pig is required to provide cautious faith.

 

The Vista Disk is a bill gates sig edition (165/25000) pressed in 2007 so it doesn't have SP1. I bought(for the price some say stole) it for $125 from CompUsa before the local store closed. But it ran fine with 8GB once the installer was done and before I install SP1.

As for the Gas milage upgrade metaphor, I would not expect to get a bonus after I took the car off the lot, unless it was gauranteed that I would get it once it was available. I would expect it to work as advertised though. There is something of an implied warranty for specific use. That is why there is a lemon law, at least here in florida.

Experimental?... Thats just a Cop-out.