Vehicles of Guru3D thread #2

[Loophole35]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bigtime

i actually found a sweep-spot on the gas pedal, which i push a little bit and accelerate slowly but the the petrol consumption is low. or decent.

Yesterday i was on high way which i was not using highway since the summer times, the consumption was so decent. now the Current Tank Level - RANGE is more than 400KM. which i already made 160 km since the i full the tank.

On the other hand we already know that highway consumption is low in all kind of vehicles. True but at least i saw the highway consumption and compared it with summer. so it was normal. so , as we all point out: engine is cold, fuel goes more. and short distances makes this valid.

The exception to that rule is hybrids my ct200h if i just drive around town i get about 46mpg as soon as I hit the highway to go somewhere across the city like say work (us stupid American's love to live about 15-20 miles from where we work one of the guys I work with lives 65 miles from work) my MPG drops to 40-42.

[scheherazade]

I think you're getting at a separate issue, which is that some cars are more comfortable than others.
A lot of comfort is the damping out of vibrations and jolts.

Whereas a lot of mechanical excitement comes from conducting the vibrations/jolts to the driver.

Cars are liked for different reasons.

I like an FFR cobra, because it's jerky, loud, and has a violent turn-in.
To most people, that's a list of things they don't want in a car, and you'd have to pay them to drive one.

Whereas I would be miserable in an E-class.


It's clear that you're after good pickup and a smooth ride.
I personally wouldn't put that as criteria for 'exciting/fun'...
But I can understand how my idea of excitement/fun would just be excessive/unnecessary to someone else.

-scheherazade

[Loophole35]

^ best drivers car PERIOD is the Honda S2000 with the 2.2l engine great turn-in high corner speed makes all the right noises and a lively rear end that can be controlled nicely with a skilled right foot. A close second to this is the mazda MX-5 and I hear the new Toyota GT or the Scion FR-S as it's called in the states is really good to but I have not had the pleasure to drive one yet.

[FaM]

Originally Posted by WildStyle

Is the Mazda3 GT the same as the MPS (Mazdaspeed3)? Don't get the GT here AFAIK.

No its not the speed3, GT just means grand touring (the highest trim available as far as options)
I debated the speed3 a lot...but I commute 15000 miles a year and I autocross (solo) I'd much rather stay in the HS racing class vs DS which includes the new mustang v6 (which is an absolute beast with racing slick hoosier a6's).


On the slow car discussion:

To tell you the honest truth ive driven an audi r8 v10 on a road course and my autocross mazda2 (demio for uk folks) was more "fun". Yes the audi was super fast and had super acceleration (and no brake dive at all)...but in just plain fun the 2 is 100hp of pure fun.

[scheherazade]

I rode along in an FR-S at an autocross.
I liked it, but for some reason I feel like I'd want an s2000 more.
Can't say why. I just do.

-scheherazade

[krisby]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I think you're getting at a separate issue, which is that some cars are more comfortable than others.
A lot of comfort is the damping out of vibrations and jolts.

Whereas a lot of mechanical excitement comes from conducting the vibrations/jolts to the driver.

Cars are liked for different reasons.

I like an FFR cobra, because it's jerky, loud, and has a violent turn-in.
To most people, that's a list of things they don't want in a car, and you'd have to pay them to drive one.

It's clear that you're after good pickup and a smooth ride.
I personally wouldn't put that as criteria for 'exciting/fun'...
But I can understand how my idea of excitement/fun would just be excessive/unnecessary to someone else.

-scheherazade

Ahhh, I think now you are blurring the lines too, whilst I love big fast but quiet cruisers when comparing to small engined cars, if you bring something like the Cobra into the mix then of course that is different again, who doesn't like a loud v8, fat tyres and the threat of being spat off the road at every corner? If I'm going to do that, I would rather it was in something powerful and do it at 100mph rather than 50.
I agree with some though that lower BHP can be fun on the twisties, I know I've kept up with 6L V8s in my 1.6 because I didn't have to break at every corner, but I know that soon became tiring when a hill puts a stop to any acceleration, that takes the fun out of it immediately.

[scheherazade]

The power didn't even occur to me with the Cobra example.
I was thinking small, light, noisy, jerky, squirly.

I could have said Lotus Elise in its place.

But yeah, it's got fun power.

And it's nothing like a C63AMG.

-scheherazade

[IcE]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I think you're getting at a separate issue, which is that some cars are more comfortable than others.
A lot of comfort is the damping out of vibrations and jolts.

Whereas a lot of mechanical excitement comes from conducting the vibrations/jolts to the driver.

Cars are liked for different reasons.

I like an FFR cobra, because it's jerky, loud, and has a violent turn-in.
To most people, that's a list of things they don't want in a car, and you'd have to pay them to drive one.

Whereas I would be miserable in an E-class.


It's clear that you're after good pickup and a smooth ride.
I personally wouldn't put that as criteria for 'exciting/fun'...
But I can understand how my idea of excitement/fun would just be excessive/unnecessary to someone else.

-scheherazade

I like my Minivan because it's a "hybrid" of sorts, it's roomy and comfortable when I just want a simple drive, but when I put my foot down it moves like it's possessed (very torque-ey) and the engine makes an incredibly satisfying sound. It's also got some really smooth and light steering. Corners are very unique at speed, because the center of gravity is high so it feels like every inch of the vehicle is resisting the turn, even though it can pull through some really tough ones. One of the most fun things ever is pulling through a winding road near my house going 50mph in that thing. So much fun, even though it's not really fast by any means.

[Tom F]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

The power didn't even occur to me with the Cobra example.
I was thinking small, light, noisy, jerky, squirly.

I could have said Lotus Elise in its place.

But yeah, it's got fun power.

And it's nothing like a C63AMG.

-scheherazade

My 900 is like that. A modern high pressure turbo diesel is probably similarly fast, but there's something about the 80's-tastic whack of torque that's just insanely addictive. And it handles amazingly. And it sounds awesome.

Really missing driving it now

Rebuilding the engine at the moment. Will be back soon - with more boost and much bigger ports / valves

[MM10X]

Originally Posted by Loophole35

^ best drivers car PERIOD is the Honda S2000 with the 2.2l engine great turn-in high corner speed makes all the right noises and a lively rear end that can be controlled nicely with a skilled right foot. A close second to this is the mazda MX-5 and I hear the new Toyota GT or the Scion FR-S as it's called in the states is really good to but I have not had the pleasure to drive one yet.

S2000 is great until you push it to the limits,

I've been in one pushing a backraod for a good 8 minutes, full throttle in a sweeping 55mph 2nd gear corner, 80% steady throttle squeezing towards corner exit, grip grip grip and then without warning no grip sideways in both lanes!
Barely had time to correct with the wheel, stayed in about 60% throttle to maintain control over it kicking the tail out in the other lane.

Those things are ridiculously twitchy at the limits.

Depends on the driver, though. I personally love it but at the same time would warn potential owners about this.

I've talked to people who have raced these on autocross and have the same issue, spinning it way too much.

[WildStyle]

Originally Posted by Tom F

My 900 is like that. A modern high pressure turbo diesel is probably similarly fast, but there's something about the 80's-tastic whack of torque that's just insanely addictive. And it handles amazingly. And it sounds awesome.

Really missing driving it now

Rebuilding the engine at the moment. Will be back soon - with more boost and much bigger ports / valves

More info/pics needed Tom. I see you went down an interesting car route but not the Italian one I had you down for all those years ago.

[WildStyle]

Originally Posted by MM10X

S2000 is great until you push it to the limits,

I've been in one pushing a backraod for a good 8 minutes, full throttle in a sweeping 55mph 2nd gear corner, 80% steady throttle squeezing towards corner exit, grip grip grip and then without warning no grip sideways in both lanes!
Barely had time to correct with the wheel, stayed in about 60% throttle to maintain control over it kicking the tail out in the other lane.

Those things are ridiculously twitchy at the limits.

Depends on the driver, though. I personally love it but at the same time would warn potential owners about this.

I've talked to people who have raced these on autocross and have the same issue, spinning it way too much.

Chap at Brands took me out in his S2000 at the last track day I went to. Was very impressed, very tail happy but I believe this can be nursed a little with a proper geometry setup. Still, would demand some respect out on the road. And in a straight line was level pegging with my Revo'd Cupra R so they go pretty well. Gearbox was like a rifle bolt!

I'd buy one but due to their nature they're double the insurance cost of most similar cars.

[Tom F]

Originally Posted by WildStyle

More info/pics needed Tom. I see you went down an interesting car route but not the Italian one I had you down for all those years ago.

I'm sure I've posted this picture about 3 times in this thread already, but never mind...



Currently off the road as it's a bit crusty in a few places and had an epic oil leak (one of those 'they all do that' type things, but still a bit annoying).

Took the opportunity to fix that along with new timing chain / guides, new bearings, etc. Also installing a head off a B234 longblock (9000 Carlsson) which has somewhat bigger ports and valves.

Will be getting a new exhaust when it's back on the road as the current one had had it - thinking an Abbott stainless system as it's the same size as standard but apparently sounds a bit nicer

Tempted by some Bilstein B6s as well, but not sure the finances are up to all that any time soon lol

Runs alright though Long term goal is 200hp, but i'll keep it at base boost for a couple of k while the new bits bed down. Should be about 150-155hp i guess, then the APC will go back in and things can be turned up. Can't wait!

What're you running around in at the moment? Was gonna guess a Coupe - but sounds like you've gone over to the dark VAG side lol

Was very tempted by a Coupe 20VT myself but the 900 has been a long standing favourite for longer than I care to remember. Just need to get it back on the road!

The 155 no longer with you?

[WildStyle]

Looks good mate, nice to see one being cared for and brought upto a good standard. Far too many newer cars on the roads these days. I have Bilstein B6s, would be a good replacement if you're on knackered standard dampers and springs but in all honestly I'm not sure they're worth the money. I take it you've got the Saab on a nice cheap classic policy? What's your daily runabout?

I have both a Coupe 20VT and a Cupra R. The Cupra R is **** and I just use it to spank to work and back and track days. It was a sensible commuting replacement for my much loved RX8. And my Coop is immaculate and only comes out when it's sunny. Spec is quite big but basically 330bhp with a GT28RS and handling/braking mods. I sold the 155 start of 09, has it been that long!

[aircool]

Never told me it was red!!!

Would never have thought you would get a Seat though..

[MM10X]

Originally Posted by WildStyle

Chap at Brands took me out in his S2000 at the last track day I went to. Was very impressed, very tail happy but I believe this can be nursed a little with a proper geometry setup. Still, would demand some respect out on the road. And in a straight line was level pegging with my Revo'd Cupra R so they go pretty well. Gearbox was like a rifle bolt!

I'd buy one but due to their nature they're double the insurance cost of most similar cars.

I completely agree they're probably great at a higher speed track, 70-120mph(never been on a track...), but in lower speed conditions on backroads (40-70mph) it loves to take you off cliffs.

As my fathers car is a completely stock setup, I can't say much for how well they tune. I'm sure you could tweak a few suspension parts to tame them up in the low speed.

And yes I so much wish I could have that gearbox in everything! that close ratio 6 is just perfect.

[Ryu5uzaku]

Originally Posted by Loophole35

^ best drivers car PERIOD is the Honda S2000 with the 2.2l engine great turn-in high corner speed makes all the right noises and a lively rear end that can be controlled nicely with a skilled right foot. A close second to this is the mazda MX-5 and I hear the new Toyota GT or the Scion FR-S as it's called in the states is really good to but I have not had the pleasure to drive one yet.

RX-7 fd 93-2002 would be one of those cars that are really really good to drive.

[Loophole35]

Originally Posted by MM10X

I completely agree they're probably great at a higher speed track, 70-120mph(never been on a track...), but in lower speed conditions on backroads (40-70mph) it loves to take you off cliffs.

As my fathers car is a completely stock setup, I can't say much for how well they tune. I'm sure you could tweak a few suspension parts to tame them up in the low speed.

And yes I so much wish I could have that gearbox in everything! that close ratio 6 is just perfect.

Was the car you drove an AP1 or an AP2? The AP1's are notorious for twichyness that is why I said the 2.2l AP2 as they redesigned the rear geometry and changed the tire sizes to make the car more apt to push at the limit rather than suddenly kick sideways. Another thing to remember is tire choice is very important on any sports car a set of economy tires on an S2K will not impress you but throw some Bridgestone RE-11's on there and now your in business.

Originally Posted by Ryu5uzaku

RX-7 fd 93-2002 would be one of those cars that are really really good to drive.

Problem is finding one I have never driven one but I would imagine they are very similar to the MX-5 seeing as they are about the same size and are very close to 50/50.

[Tom F]

Originally Posted by WildStyle

Looks good mate, nice to see one being cared for and brought upto a good standard. Far too many newer cars on the roads these days. I have Bilstein B6s, would be a good replacement if you're on knackered standard dampers and springs but in all honestly I'm not sure they're worth the money. I take it you've got the Saab on a nice cheap classic policy? What's your daily runabout?

I have both a Coupe 20VT and a Cupra R. The Cupra R is **** and I just use it to spank to work and back and track days. It was a sensible commuting replacement for my much loved RX8. And my Coop is immaculate and only comes out when it's sunny. Spec is quite big but basically 330bhp with a GT28RS and handling/braking mods. I sold the 155 start of 09, has it been that long!

Thanks

I'm definitely planning on getting a classic policy when it's back on the road - any recommendations?

Heard good things about B6's on there - I'd probably go for T16S springs as they slightly lower / stiffer, but I'm planning on keeping it 100% road car, both in terms of setup and ride quality. What your experience of the B6's?

My daily is a Saab 9000 CS that I bagged for the winter. Nice car, but the 900 is much more fun. Planning on shifting the 9000 when the 900 is back on the road...

The Fiat looks gorgeous. Is that 330bhp on standard internals? Must absolutely fly! How does it stack up against the Seat in the handling stakes?

[WildStyle]

Originally Posted by aircool

Never told me it was red!!!

Would never have thought you would get a Seat though..

You never asked

It was a sensible choice for commuting 200 miles a week, it has halved my fuel bills since using it instead of the rotary.

It takes a lot of abuse and it's quite quick with ~260bhp. Once I fixed all the usual mk4 Golf platform leaks it's even dry inside now too!

Still needed something quick for the commute, reason being there's lots of sales kiddies at work who think their cars are quick and I need to be able to outdrag them when required.

[WildStyle]

Originally Posted by Tom F

Thanks

I'm definitely planning on getting a classic policy when it's back on the road - any recommendations?

Heard good things about B6's on there - I'd probably go for T16S springs as they slightly lower / stiffer, but I'm planning on keeping it 100% road car, both in terms of setup and ride quality. What your experience of the B6's?

My daily is a Saab 9000 CS that I bagged for the winter. Nice car, but the 900 is much more fun. Planning on shifting the 9000 when the 900 is back on the road...

The Fiat looks gorgeous. Is that 330bhp on standard internals? Must absolutely fly! How does it stack up against the Seat in the handling stakes?

No problem, looking after older cars should be encouraged!

I get my insurance through a specialist broker. I will look up who I'm actually with later on.

I have B6 and Eibach Pro-Kit springs on the Coop. It's not that they're bad but I would prefer something softer perhaps I'm getting old. Then again most stuff these days caters towards large wheels and hard suspension.

It is on standard internals, supposedly the limit is around 350 before going forged but it's an element of luck once you get to that sort of area. It does go very well and sounds epic.

Handling wise neither is standard but in terms of grip the Fiat has a proper diff, the Seat doesnt it has some electronic bull****tery that has no effect so in the damp I am spinning the wheels in 3rd in the Seat and on track it will light the inside wheel up with the DSC off. With it on it just cuts the power which is annoying. The map is pretty aggressive on that thing though. Fiat has great traction all around, also has a Whiteline ARB at the back to help turn in and it's just beautiful.

[Ryu5uzaku]

Originally Posted by Loophole35

Was the car you drove an AP1 or an AP2? The AP1's are notorious for twichyness that is why I said the 2.2l AP2 as they redesigned the rear geometry and changed the tire sizes to make the car more apt to push at the limit rather than suddenly kick sideways. Another thing to remember is tire choice is very important on any sports car a set of economy tires on an S2K will not impress you but throw some Bridgestone RE-11's on there and now your in business.



Problem is finding one I have never driven one but I would imagine they are very similar to the MX-5 seeing as they are about the same size and are very close to 50/50.

Getting myself one next year from 2000+ batch from japan fun times incoming. Yeah kinda similar just with way more power ^^ the latest ones have bit over 300hp, 276 as japanese have to tell it is but they have bit more.

[Loophole35]

Originally Posted by Ryu5uzaku

Getting myself one next year from 2000+ batch from japan fun times incoming. Yeah kinda similar just with way more power ^^ the latest ones have bit over 300hp, 276 as japanese have to tell it is but they have bit more.

Just not a big fan of the rotary motor if I could ge ahold of a FD I would throw a LS1 in that beast in a heart beat they don't even mess up the balance of the car as the engines weigh almost the exact same amount but all that power at the slightest twitch of your big toe.

[scheherazade]

Yeah, I've learned to appreciate superchargers for that reason.
Turbo lag is tedious when you're on and off the gas a lot.
You end up compensating with early throttle, and it adds another layer of crap to keep in check.
It's great when you can just touch the gas and the power is just there already.

-scheherazade

[Ryu5uzaku]

Originally Posted by Loophole35

Just not a big fan of the rotary motor if I could ge ahold of a FD I would throw a LS1 in that beast in a heart beat they don't even mess up the balance of the car as the engines weigh almost the exact same amount but all that power at the slightest twitch of your big toe.

Yeah rotary engines are bit funky so i know people tend to get LS1 there. I'd rather take 20b engine in there but will settle for latest revs of 13b since those won't flood as easily but still need to be careful and the apex seals are bit better too. Tho easier to take apart and rebuilt then traditional engines with valves