Downsampling: How to

[fagoatse]

I've created various res for my monitor but left Hz at 60. I've noticed that even 2560x1600 tends to be sluggish, is it too much for 560ti 1GB @ ~570 clocks?
Does lowering refresh rate increase performance?
Also, why do you guys use 'auto' instead of 'manual'? What are the benefits of it?

edit: just checked my monitors specs and they say:

Horizontal Refresh Rate
30 - 83kHz
Vertical Refresh Rate
56 - 75Hz

perhaps that's the reason why i was able to do 3360x2100 without any blackscreens or other issues.

[Wanny]

Well going higher resolution than your monitor will make it more sluggish.

2560x1440 from 1920x1200 is 1.6x more pixels (I think?). So yea, of course your GPU will work more. I don't know if performance scales in a linear way.

[fagoatse]

Originally Posted by Wanny

Well going higher resolution than your monitor will make it more sluggish.

2560x1440 from 1920x1200 is 1.6x more pixels (I think?). So yea, of course your GPU will work more. I don't know if performance scales in a linear way.

I'm trying out 2560x1600@60Hz from 1680x1050@60Hz right now.
I'm mostly interested if decreasing refresh rate improves performance, as I've noticed people in this thread go as low as 54Hz or even 50Hz.

[Cyberdyne]

They are lowering the refreshrate to get a lower clockrate to get a higher resolution. Something you don't have to worry about it seems.
Lowing the refreshrate does not help performance. If it did those with 120hz monitors would be screwed

[oozish]

Thanks for this guide it works wonders on Dead Space 2 and I'm sure many other games where the PC isn't limited by horsepower.

[dsbig]

sometimes cinamatics in games play really slow with the higher resolution

for example witcher 2 play fine with 3200x1800, except when your talking to people then it really slows down.

[Dictator93]

Originally Posted by dsbig

sometimes cinamatics in games play really slow with the higher resolution

for example witcher 2 play fine with 3200x1800, except when your talking to people then it really slows down.

That has to do with the cinematic depth of field. It is rendered at full screen res (not half res like most games) so it really sucks performance down.

[dsbig]

well I was finally able to get 3840x2160 working on mine, but only at 54hz, which games wont detect.

I was testing some things I installed a custom monitor inf and games still didnt detect the resolution.
but then I put the resolution to my desktop and then started the game and the game detect the resolution.



and no red screens!!!!

[Koniakki]

Guys, tbh I have seen the quide here since it was posted, but never read it. For the fun of it yesterday after reading some benches, I thought to create a custom 1440p res on my Sammy 59D550 1080p Plasma connected through HDMI 1.4/a(cant remember).

It worked! I started FC3 and it detected it! I played only FC3 so far at 1440p just fine with 2xAA! I get the same FPS as 1080p@4xAA! I'm I missing something here? I can game at 1440p now? Just got a "free" 1440p 59' HDTV?

I would love to hear your thoughts on this and if this can DAMAGE my plasma in ANY way! Also didn't change any timings or anything since I'm not familiar with them.

Thanks in advance.


Update: 3200x1800@x2AA works too! Performance hit about the same as 1080p@8xAA.


Update 2: Just read the last few pages. Should have done it earlier. I guess I just learned what Downsampling is..
I used the settings from Anarion from page 6 post #127 since automatic was a no go for 3840x2160.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Fox2232

Guys, why are you doing such thing in such bad way? I think this kind of down sampling is way worse than old cubic down sampling.

Ever Heard of Software Triplehead? It's D3D wrapper which tells game that your nV/AMD/intel card supports whatever resolution you desire.
Game renders at that resolution. And then wrapper cuts section(s) and up/down scale to any resolution you want and sends it to monitor(s). Its built in downsampler is roughly at level of MLAA.

Here is link:
www.kegetys.fi/forum/index.php?topic=2123.0
Supports most games, DX11 included. (I Actually never run into game where It would not run.)

In config only this really matters:


sourceRect in this example 1st pixel is at position 0,0 and then it takes another 2880x1620 pixels. This means last is 2879x1619.
If you used: sourceRect=500,500,1000,1000
It would cut square starting at pixel 500,500 and made 1000x1000 square. Means bottom right pixel would have coordinates 1499x1499.

You can send same or overlapping areas to different monitors as information is not cut out, but copied.

Here is little comparison (No postprocess, resize or anything was done to improve/reduce image quality. Only cut and paste of data blocks.):
GTA4 zones taken in places where is biggest potential for improvement.


Images on left side are CSS w/ SoftTH. Images on the right are GTA4 from OP.
CSS Images (images with 8xAA are just to see whole scale from worst to best visuals):

Native resolution     Down sampled
rope_smooth 0+0xAA    rope_smooth 0+0xAA
rope_smooth 1+0xAA    rope_smooth 1+0xAA
rope_smooth 0+8xAA    rope_smooth 0+8xAA
rope_smooth 1+8xAA    rope_smooth 1+8xAA

My personal conclusion:

• From rendering point of view both methods create same images.
• Main difference is in part when SoftTH resizes/downsizes rendered image.
• Method used by OP is more fuzzy.
• SoftTH brings into view more pieces missing from distant objects small(er) than 1 pixel in diameter (ropes, fences, leaves).

Tested that tool, really interesting. Image quality is equal to OGSSAA. Performance is equal to SGSSAA (i.e. 3840x2160 to 4xSGSSAA). ME3 example shots (3840x2160 render resolution with in game FXAA enabled, 1920x1080 screen mode):
http://www.abload.de/img/masseffect32012-12-116pk3c.png

http://www.abload.de/img/masseffect32012-12-115ektx.png

[Catta]

Hello, I’d like to try downsampling because some games don’t have enough anti-aliasing but I’m concerned about my video card being not powerful enough. Would it worth trying downsampling with NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra, monitor NEC MultiSync LCD 2490WUXi2 24” (16:10)? If yes, what resolution should I try?

[Koniakki]

Originally Posted by Catta

Hello, I’d like to try downsampling because some games don’t have enough anti-aliasing but I’m concerned about my video card being not powerful enough. Would it worth trying downsampling with NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra, monitor NEC MultiSync LCD 2490WUXi2 24” (16:10)? If yes, what resolution should I try?

Well, FPS is just FPS. A 680 gets this FPS, a 660 this FPS and a 8800 ultra this FPS.

Since if memory serves me right a 8800 ultra is "about" equivalent to a 4870/9800GTX/GTS250/5750 and I said "about" before some jumps in,
you can find about if you have FPS to spare and just test it..

Check out Hilbert's review for FC2. Look at those 4870/GTS250/5750 score for a good comparison. Just my opinion again.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages...review,15.html

From my findings as my previous post above, 2560x1440@2xAA in FC3 equals to 1080p@4xAA and 3200x1800@x2AA has about the same as 1080p@8xAA performance hit.


P.S: Here Hilbert's FarCry2 VGA comparison from 2008.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages..._review,5.html

[Catta]

Originally Posted by Fox2232

Guys, why are you doing such thing in such bad way? I think this kind of down sampling is way worse than old cubic down sampling.

Ever Heard of Software Triplehead? It's D3D wrapper which tells game that your nV/AMD/intel card supports whatever resolution you desire.
Game renders at that resolution. And then wrapper cuts section(s) and up/down scale to any resolution you want and sends it to monitor(s). Its built in downsampler is roughly at level of MLAA.

Here is link:
www.kegetys.fi/forum/index.php?topic=2123.0
Supports most games, DX11 included. (I Actually never run into game where It would not run.)

I’ve tried SoftTH v2.08b with 2880x1800 resolution with AA off in “Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood” and it made no difference comparing to my monitor's native resolution 1920x1200.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Catta

I’ve tried SoftTH v2.08b with 2880x1800 resolution with AA off in “Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood” and it made no difference comparing to my monitor's native resolution 1920x1200.

You have to select 2880x1800 in game. Did you do that?

[Catta]

Originally Posted by Anarion

You have to select 2880x1800 in game. Did you do that?

Of course I did

[dsbig]

I found problem with some games the words and dialog popups get really small


I was playing combat arms with downsampling and I hit exit and the dialog box was tiny, about the size of my mouse pointer

[MrBonk]

Yeah that happens in games where they scale the HUD information to the resolution you are using

[dsbig]

is there anyway to backup the settings?

its a pain to have to redo the custom res every time doing a clean driver install

[MrBonk]

I write mine down on paper. The timings and then the list of resolutions i've added.


On another note, Downsampling sucks with BFBC2 no matter what you do. Even with SMAA or FXAA added. MSAA helps, but there is an unbearable white outline on objects that have alpha effects behind them.(CoD:Black Ops 2 suffers the same issue. And Neither of these games have this issue on Consoles. Timothy Lottes told me why this happens but I can't remember exactly what it was;some kind of function with how the AA is resolved and is something could be fixed if they wanted he said; and he has deleted almost all of his FXAA/TXAA related posts.)

And shimmering and pixel crawl improve barely at all. Even when downsampling with ~3.5X more resolution.;3008x1692 -1600x900.

[slickric21]

Had a quick play with downsampling today, brought about by playing NFS Shift 2, as forcing AA creates white blobs in night races.

Didn't bother with all the manual stuff as it seemed like to much effort and too much to read.

Just with staying at auto timings and 60hz I am able to go to 3168 x 1782 so thats x 1.65 my normal res of 1920x1080 on my BenQ G2222HDL.

Have to say Shift 2 looks great @ 3168 x 1782, add SMAA and its superb.

Then had a play on BF3 and that too looked great, but performance hit was abit too harsh. Also the hud/minimap was alot smaller.
Went back to x2 MSAA with X2 SGSSAA + nVidia FXAA for this game.

[jim2point0]

2160p does amazing things for Hitman Absolution.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim2poi...ream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim2poi...ream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim2poi...ream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim2poi...ream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim2poi...ream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim2poi...ream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim2poi...ream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim2poi...ream/lightbox/

[Prag]

Originally Posted by Fox2232

Guys, why are you doing such thing in such bad way? I think this kind of down sampling is way worse than old cubic down sampling.

Ever Heard of Software Triplehead? It's D3D wrapper which tells game that your nV/AMD/intel card supports whatever resolution you desire.
Game renders at that resolution. And then wrapper cuts section(s) and up/down scale to any resolution you want and sends it to monitor(s). Its built in downsampler is roughly at level of MLAA.

Here is link:
www.kegetys.fi/forum/index.php?topic=2123.0
Supports most games, DX11 included. (I Actually never run into game where It would not run.)

My personal conclusion:

• From rendering point of view both methods create same images.
• Main difference is in part when SoftTH resizes/downsizes rendered image.
• Method used by OP is more fuzzy.
• SoftTH brings into view more pieces missing from distant objects small(er) than 1 pixel in diameter (ropes, fences, leaves).

Tested in few games

Assassin's Creed Brotherhood 3840x2160 - Jaggies
Splinter Cell Conviction 2560x1440 - Artifacts
Splinter Cell Conviction 3840x1440 - Artifacts + Jaggies
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 3840x2160 - Artifacts
Shift 2 3840x2160 - Crash

[Xanvast]

I tested that SoftTH too and it was either not working, either I had horrible performance with no visual improvement.

[Warlock]

So I have the dell U2412M which is 1920x1200.

I've been trying to get 3840x2400 to work but the monitor just says the timings are not supported, doesn't matter what refresh rate I pick (60,59,30,29) it doesn't like it.

I can only manage at most 2880x1800 @60hz it seems.

Would it work if I used a DisplayPort cable instead of DVI? or can I never reach 2400p?

[Phreakuency]

First ever attempt at Downsampling.

My regular res is 1920x1080 (as I game on a 55" LCD).

I managed to get 2880x1620 and it does noticeably make games crisper but there's a few hiccups.

1. It makes games MUCH darker.
2. While in-game fps counters say it doesn't affect fps much at all, my mouse/cursor/menu movement etc gets sluggish.

I have followed the directions perfectly from this thread, but could I be missing something?

This thread http://www.overclock.net/t/1237470/h...le-in-the-game here says I need to mod the monitor inf and use 3 different programs.

Any help would be much appreciated.