MPEG H.265 codec cuts bandwidth in half

Guru3D News · **MPEG H.265 codec cuts bandwidth in half -** 08-18-2012, 08:00 | posts: 6,357

The Motion Pictures Expert Group MPEG has released a draft for H.265 a new video codec that promises to cut bandwidth in half compared to H.264. The new codec is anticipated to be finalized and launched...

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Corrupt^ · 08-18-2012, 13:21 | posts: 4,808 | Location: Belgium

Interesting, faster loading times for videos, faster uploading and also for ISP's delivering Digital TV (at least in Belgium where they use a certain type of compression with better quality then youtube).

Neo Cyrus · **Memory**: 6GB DDR3-2000 9-9-9-24-1T

About time.

deltatux · 08-18-2012, 17:13 | posts: 18,785 | Location: Toronto, Canada

My question is: would we need to purchase new hardware in order for this to be hardware accelerated or can it be partially accelerated with current implementations?

This is especially important for mobile devices since if the GPUs in phones can't accelerate H.265 even partially without new hardware, many people can't access these videos without either draining their batteries or it'll be laggy. This is also a slight issue for desktop/laptop users who are used to having their H.264 videos hardware accelerated via Intel QuickSync, AMD AVIVO (UVD) or NVIDIA PureVideo.

deltatux

tsunami231 · 08-18-2012, 18:01 | posts: 2,289 | Location: USA

Does this mean its compressed more too? if so i not interested Cable/Satellite tv even fios is compressed to much as it is

scatman839 · 08-18-2012, 21:25 | posts: 8,751 | Location: Dundee, Scotland

It might mean tv networks will start pushing 1080p more though, rather than the current 1080i on most networks.

FULMTL · 08-18-2012, 21:37 | posts: 6,152 | Location: Portland, Oregon

Looks like mini encodes are catching on and I'm glad.

tsunami231 · 08-19-2012, 01:23 | posts: 2,289 | Location: USA

what good is 1080p if it compressed to hell.

Denial · 08-19-2012, 01:58 | posts: 6,351 | Location: Above Earth in a Big Rocket Ship

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunami231

what good is 1080p if it compressed to hell.

Well considering that the compression level doesn't correlate to the quality of the image, 1080p content that is compressed to hell can actually be very good.

sykozis · 08-19-2012, 02:24 | posts: 13,498 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:

Originally Posted by scatman839

It might mean tv networks will start pushing 1080p more though, rather than the current 1080i on most networks.

lol, I'm stuck with 720p.... So, what exactly is the difference between 1080p and 1080i?

deltatux · 08-19-2012, 02:36 | posts: 18,785 | Location: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by sykozis

lol, I'm stuck with 720p.... So, what exactly is the difference between 1080p and 1080i?

Instead of pushing 1920x576 per frame, they can push true 1920x1080 per frame to your TV. 1080i interlaces those 1920x576 to achieve 1920x1080 videos.

deltatux

FULMTL · *Last edited by FULMTL; 08-19-2012 at 07:38.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denial

Well considering that the compression level doesn't correlate to the quality of the image, 1080p content that is compressed to hell can actually be very good.

Yep, if you ever watched 10-bit encoded MKV files, you'll be amazed at the sharpness and the file size. If done properly, you can't tell the difference. Not sure if I'm using the right terms for codec/container...but an episode can be about 100MB and a movie can be a few hundred but look like identical to the uncompressed version.

EspHack · 08-19-2012, 08:04 | posts: 1,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltatux

My question is: would we need to purchase new hardware in order for this to be hardware accelerated or can it be partially accelerated with current implementations?

This is especially important for mobile devices since if the GPUs in phones can't accelerate H.265 even partially without new hardware, many people can't access these videos without either draining their batteries or it'll be laggy. This is also a slight issue for desktop/laptop users who are used to having their H.264 videos hardware accelerated via Intel QuickSync, AMD AVIVO (UVD) or NVIDIA PureVideo.

deltatux

this...

Finchwizard

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltatux

My question is: would we need to purchase new hardware in order for this to be hardware accelerated or can it be partially accelerated with current implementations?

This is especially important for mobile devices since if the GPUs in phones can't accelerate H.265 even partially without new hardware, many people can't access these videos without either draining their batteries or it'll be laggy. This is also a slight issue for desktop/laptop users who are used to having their H.264 videos hardware accelerated via Intel QuickSync, AMD AVIVO (UVD) or NVIDIA PureVideo.

deltatux

I suppose at some point you're always going to have a crossover of new tech on old hardware.

You would hope that they're starting to prepare for these things ahead of time to try and get the hardware ready for when it comes in.

Plus it's not like they'll just instantly switch over to h.265. There will be a bit more overlap again while they transition.

Xendance · 08-20-2012, 12:58 | posts: 5,289 | Location: Funland aka Happycamp aka Finland

Quote:

Originally Posted by FULMTL

Yep, if you ever watched 10-bit encoded MKV files, you'll be amazed at the sharpness and the file size. If done properly, you can't tell the difference. Not sure if I'm using the right terms for codec/container...but an episode can be about 100MB and a movie can be a few hundred but look like identical to the uncompressed version.

Wut? MKV is a container, not a codec for encoding audio and/or video. Also those claims of yours about quality sound a little fishy for any codec

typeAlpha · 08-20-2012, 15:04 | posts: 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xendance

Wut? MKV is a container, not a codec for encoding audio and/or video. Also those claims of yours about quality sound a little fishy for any codec

10bit most certainly increases quality and gets rid of colour banding, the differences can be quite subtle at times but they are definitely there. It can also reduce file size a considerable amount. 10-bit H.264 of course, usually applying to anime encodes.

Denial · *Last edited by Denial; 08-20-2012 at 16:01.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeAlpha

10bit most certainly increases quality and gets rid of colour banding, the differences can be quite subtle at times but they are definitely there. It can also reduce file size a considerable amount. 10-bit H.264 of course, usually applying to anime encodes.

Yeah, unfortunately the file size reduction is really limited to things like anime, since most of the reduction comes from the increased efficiency in motion compensation, which is really good for the large amount of stills in most anime shots.

Plus all the other downsides to it makes it not that good for general movies.

Corrupt^ · 08-20-2012, 17:56 | posts: 4,808 | Location: Belgium

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denial

Yeah, unfortunately the file size reduction is really limited to things like anime, since most of the reduction comes from the increased efficiency in motion compensation, which is really good for the large amount of stills in most anime shots.

Plus all the other downsides to it makes it not that good for general movies.

Also, doesn't anime (and cartoons like the simpsons and stuff) have less complexity in colours?

Xendance · 08-20-2012, 17:57 | posts: 5,289 | Location: Funland aka Happycamp aka Finland

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrupt^

Also, doesn't anime (and cartoons like the simpsons and stuff) have less complexity in colours?

That's exactly the reason why compression works on them much better than with live action movies, alongside with the fact that the animations aren't necessarily drawn to be 24/30 fps like normal movies.

k1net1cs · 08-20-2012, 18:13 | posts: 3,328

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrupt^

Also, doesn't anime (and cartoons like the simpsons and stuff) have less complexity in colours?

With anime (these days), it depends on which studio that made it and from what genre of manga the story is being pulled from.
Something like C and Accel World with many fast-moving scenes can take up 400+MB on average with 10-bit encoding on 720p for a 23~24 minutes duration if it's being set for constant quality; (video) bitrate can shot upward to 2500+Kbps.

SamW · 08-20-2012, 19:16 | posts: 528

Better compression can provide both better quality at lower bitrates and lower bitrates at better quality.
So if this new codec has real technological advancements, it will lead to both.

k1net1cs · 08-21-2012, 04:35 | posts: 3,328

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamW

Better compression can provide both better quality at lower bitrates and lower bitrates at better quality.
So if this new codec has real technological advancements, it will lead to both.

Like some have said above, compression ratio depends on the material being encoded; easier samples provide great results, and vice versa.

In any case, most video codecs' compression is symmetric, which basically means the more advanced the compression setting is (for a smaller file size result), the more CPU grunt needed to decompress.
Which is why most portable players have a set of restrictions on what settings can be used to encode a video before the device is able to play it back.
e.g. H.264 videos encoded using CABAC can't be played on most portable players or smartphones, due to processing power restrictions.

If H.265 managed to achieve better compression asymmetrically (almost static CPU usage regardless of encoding settings), it'd be great.
If not, well, probably won't matter since by the time H.265 goes mainstream smartphones would probably be about as powerful as a current ultrabook.

EspHack · 08-21-2012, 05:13 | posts: 1,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1net1cs

With anime (these days), it depends on which studio that made it and from what genre of manga the story is being pulled from.
Something like C and Accel World with many fast-moving scenes can take up 400+MB on average with 10-bit encoding on 720p for a 23~24 minutes duration if it's being set for constant quality; (video) bitrate can shot upward to 2500+Kbps.

accel world at 720p doesnt take more than 200mb per cap, in my opinion, there is not much quality gain from 480p to 720p+ on animes, they just look the same lol 480p is the best they can get

k1net1cs · 08-21-2012, 05:44 | posts: 3,328

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspHack

accel world at 720p doesnt take more than 200mb per cap, in my opinion, there is not much quality gain from 480p to 720p+ on animes, they just look the same lol 480p is the best they can get

Depending on the RAWs; proper caps are usually .ts capped from DVB.

Regarding quality, on generic LCD monitors the difference probably won't be too apparent between fullscreen-ed 720p and 480p.
But when it's being displayed using large-ish HDTVs the difference is quite apparent.
Its quality sometimes also depends on whether the show is originally being made in 720p or 480p upscaled to 720p.

Ultimately, it depends on everyone's tolerance level.
Personally, I'll always get 720p if it's available.

EspHack · 08-21-2012, 05:48 | posts: 1,553

yea^
i get them 720p for "future proof" in case i start watching them again in big screen HDTVs i know for sure they will look pixelated at 480p or even 720p