What are 3d Games anyways ??

djevlen · *Last edited by djevlen; 08-20-2012 at 11:59.*

Hi all.

I hope some of u are 3d experts and can clarify this for me.

When a movie is a 3d movie then it means director was shooting with a camera with 2 lences, or 2 seperate cameras. This means that movie is not recorded from the center, but litlebit from the left angle and litlebit from the right angle just like our eyes are, and if those 2 images are put on a 3d TV, then the tv will combine them,u put 3d glasses on and u have 3d movie. A normal movie can never be a 3d movie because everything is recorded from the center, and converting from 2d to 3d looks just BAD. right ??

So, what about 3D games in 3D. This is where i get so confused. Are there any games out there which are displaying images from left and right angle(right and left camera) ? or they just render exactly thesame image 2 times for the left and for the right eye ?

And then there are iZ3D and tridef 3d companies who say..just install our drivers and everything will turn into 3D...How can anything be 3D if game/movie is just in 2D ??? They are just converting 2d games and movies into wannabe 3d games/movies or not ?

The closest experience i got in 3D gaming was in crysis 2 and Avatar 3D. I added r_StereoSupportAMD = 1 into the cfg file of the crysis game. go into the game menu. click 3d enable and walla..2 images side by sides. hit 3d button on the samsung 3d tv= VERY NICE.

Anyways...why i need some 3rd party drivers to get 3D working on ATI cards. It is the game that must add an extra camera into the screen in order to be real 3D or not , and the rest would be up to the 3d tv ??? Anything else would be converting 2d/3d games into 3D which isnt real 3D.

Yeasterday i tried enable 3d in bf3 when samsung 3d tv was connected. nothing happens. As far as i understood the game must sence that an minimum 120hz monitor must be connected to the graphic card in order to work. This is also something i dont understand. Lets say i would to play soundtrack in surround. The sountrack wont probe my hifi to see if it is sony or JVC or if they have surround capabilities.. the surround-track will just play in surround, and it is up to the hifi if it has the capabilities play it in surround. Or it is up to me if i have the right amount of speakers...

Why are these 3D games so anoying to get running in 3D.. Crysis 2 isnt probing anyting. It plays sbs when u ask it to even on a non 3d monitor, but at least i can see that it works, and then i can connect my 3D tv and enjoy the game in 3D.

..hope some one can clarify this 3D...

thanx

Ade 1 · 08-20-2012, 12:42 | posts: 532 | Location: Safe House

I suspect Tony Scott read your post before driving to the bridge!

Mufflore · 08-20-2012, 13:23 | posts: 9,833 | Location: UK

Quote:

Originally Posted by djevlen

So, what about 3D games in 3D. This is where i get so confused. Are there any games out there which are displaying images from left and right angle(right and left camera) ? or they just render exactly thesame image 2 times for the left and for the right eye ?

The screen is rendered twice, once for each eye position.

Quote:

And then there are iZ3D and tridef 3d companies who say..just install our drivers and everything will turn into 3D...How can anything be 3D if game/movie is just in 2D ??? They are just converting 2d games and movies into wannabe 3d games/movies or not ?

Games are 3D internally and are normally shown from one position, thats how they get the perspective correct for objects at different distances.
Drawing in Stereo is almost trivial.

Quote:

The closest experience i got in 3D gaming was in crysis 2 and Avatar 3D. I added r_StereoSupportAMD = 1 into the cfg file of the crysis game. go into the game menu. click 3d enable and walla..2 images side by sides. hit 3d button on the samsung 3d tv= VERY NICE.

Anyways...why i need some 3rd party drivers to get 3D working on ATI cards. It is the game that must add an extra camera into the screen in order to be real 3D or not , and the rest would be up to the 3d tv ??? Anything else would be converting 2d/3d games into 3D which isnt real 3D.

Because ATI dont provide a 3D renderer, the game has to have it built in or a program like Tridef is needed.

Quote:

Yeasterday i tried enable 3d in bf3 when samsung 3d tv was connected. nothing happens. As far as i understood the game must sence that an minimum 120hz monitor must be connected to the graphic card in order to work. This is also something i dont understand. Lets say i would to play soundtrack in surround. The sountrack wont probe my hifi to see if it is sony or JVC or if they have surround capabilities.. the surround-track will just play in surround, and it is up to the hifi if it has the capabilities play it in surround. Or it is up to me if i have the right amount of speakers...

For shutter glasses, frames on screen have to be synced with the glasses, otherwise you get bad flicker.
If you have a game running at 60fps per eye, thats a total of 120fps, needing 120Hz.
You can also do the same (60fps per eye) with a 60Hz polarised TV because both eyes are transmitted simultaneously from different lines of pixels.
I have one and it literally is as simple as play a 3D Blu Ray or game in 3D and it looks 3D with the glasses on, but the desktop is still 2D, no adjustment of the TV needed.
You can also play side by side and other 3D material and tell the TV to sort out the displaying.

Quote:

Why are these 3D games so anoying to get running in 3D.. Crysis 2 isnt probing anyting. It plays sbs when u ask it to even on a non 3d monitor, but at least i can see that it works, and then i can connect my 3D tv and enjoy the game in 3D.

..hope some one can clarify this 3D...

thanx

Without knowing anything about your hardware, cant help.

djevlen · 08-20-2012, 13:45 | posts: 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mufflore

Because ATI dont provide a 3D renderer, the game has to have it built in or a program like Tridef is needed.

Thanx Mufflore

So in this case crysis 2 have a build in 3D renderer but bf3 does not ?

If thats the case, then ur answer helped me alot figuring out why some games work out of the box and other games dont.

But this information is never written on game DVD cover... How can if find out if BF3 has build in 3D renderer or not.

So 3D games could be put in 2 categories 1: 3D ready(supports 3D but no 3D renderer, and 2: 3D (build in 3D renderer) ??

Is the thinking correct ?

Thanx

nhlkoho · 08-20-2012, 13:48 | posts: 3,939 | Location: Washington DC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ade 1

I suspect Tony Scott read your post before driving to the bridge!

That's horrible.....but I still LOL'd

djevlen · 08-20-2012, 13:51 | posts: 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhlkoho

That's horrible.....but I still LOL'd

You noobs..

Pls stick to the topic..

Questions are maybe silly if you are expert on the subject...But if you have no clue, then you need to start learning somewhere....even by asking wrong / silly questions..

btw.. I also LOL'd even though it is terrible

funny comment.

...thanx

Mufflore · 08-20-2012, 14:02 | posts: 9,833 | Location: UK

Quote:

Originally Posted by djevlen

Thanx Mufflore

So in this case crysis 2 have a build in 3D renderer but bf3 does not ?

If the game allows you to select the stereo mode then the game can render in stereo.

Quote:

But this information is never written on game DVD cover... How can if find out if BF3 has build in 3D renderer or not.

Almost no games come with their own 3D renderer, they rely on programs like iZ3D, Tridef, NVidia 3DVision to draw 2 frames, one for each eye.
If you want to make good use of your 3D monitor for gaming, you are going to need one of them.

Quote:

So 3D games could be put in 2 categories 1: 3D ready(supports 3D but no 3D renderer, and 2: 3D (build in 3D renderer) ??

If your category is whether the game can render in stereo, then yes.
But then you have to make sure the renderer you use supports the game properly.

djevlen · 08-20-2012, 14:10 | posts: 4

Thank you Mufflore

It helped a lot

Glidefan · 08-20-2012, 14:11 | posts: 11,895 | Location: Solar System, Earth, Med, Cyprus

@ Mufflore.
Rendering in stereo is not a trivial matter because of all the cheats going on behind the scenes when it comes to games.
Like the HUD, or the character's weapon in FPS games. (Its always visible even if you are right up on a wall which normally would clip your gun inside the wall.
Plus, that if they did it as it should, with the camera in the character's head and the gun in the right place when it comes to geometry, it would look funny.

I'm not saying that what you said is wrong or that your advice is wrong.
Just for the trivia thing.
There was a video of carmack's keynote speech and he touched the stereo part.

Bogard · 04-05-2013, 17:42 | posts: 42 | Location: Tulsa, OK

it is bunch of bologna is what it is!! Just another way to take your money for technology that is not need. Personally I think 3d sucks, I dont like the movies 3d and I dont want a game 3d. Anyway for them to take more of my dollar.

Mufflore · 04-05-2013, 19:10 | posts: 9,833 | Location: UK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glidefan

@ Mufflore.
Rendering in stereo is not a trivial matter because of all the cheats going on behind the scenes when it comes to games.
Like the HUD, or the character's weapon in FPS games. (Its always visible even if you are right up on a wall which normally would clip your gun inside the wall.
Plus, that if they did it as it should, with the camera in the character's head and the gun in the right place when it comes to geometry, it would look funny.

I'm not saying that what you said is wrong or that your advice is wrong.
Just for the trivia thing.
There was a video of carmack's keynote speech and he touched the stereo part.

Technically it is trivial as long as the game, as you say, hasnt been programmed with cheats to fix little issues.
3D apps like Tridef allow customisation to counter many of the issues.
New game profiles are released soon after the game with most of the issues solved.
Enterprising forum members sometimes post their own creations with solutions to remaining issues.

HUD issues and other non 3D textures/text have common correction techniques, they have been fixing these for years.

SoloCreep · 05-09-2013, 04:56 | posts: 172 | Location: Wa

Im a 3D movie lover and a 3D gamer. Its one of the reasons I switched to Geforce. None of this TriDef or Iz3D crap. Nvidia has got their act together for 3D. I wish AMD would hurry the heck up and do the same thing. Until they do they shouldn't be advertising their misleading info on the box. The reason I even bought my last AMD card was at the time I bought a 3D HDTV and thought "hey cool I'll buy this and go hook it up for some 3D gaming", Boy was I wrong.. I had to use 3rd party drivers that have nothing to do with AMD. Ditch AMD for 3D gaming and use the real deal, Nvidia all the way.