5.1 speakers vs DH/SC/etc.

[Rebel975]

Originally Posted by Mufflore

They look great.

Rebel, check out the flat pack sub boxes, these look well designed.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks.html

Yep, they look awesome. Just the right amount of work for me. Unfinished and un-assembled, but more than just a design. I can do this.

[Mufflore]

Sweet, be sure to post a build log

[ROBSCIX]

Bass is very important, espescially for gaming...etc. FPS don't sound the same with no bass.

[Rebel975]

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoof...flat-pack.html

Would you guys recommend lining the cabinet with foam, or putting in some pillow foam, etc? If pillow foam, how much should I use?

[Mufflore]

Both types of damping are normally recommended but foam isnt very useful in woofer only boxes as foam damps high frequencies.
I'm surprised the kit doesnt mention damping?

Some basic info on the types of wadding.
http://www.loudspeakerdesign.co.uk/a..._dampening.php
Fibre glass is very good, very stable over time but very itchy.

The more stuffing in the box, the lower its resonant frequency (and the more internal sound energy is turned into heat).
This is because sound travels slower through solid objects so it takes sound longer to travel inside the enclosure.
This makes the enclosure appear larger to the audio waves, reducing the frequency of the cabinets internal resonance.
What you want from your speaker is not the sound energy rattling around inside the cabinet (for most loudspeaker designs, Transmission Line designs for example can use internal resonance to its advantage), but the much cleaner audio waves coming from the front of the speaker driver.


On a side note:
I recommend mounting your speaker cabinet on firm rubber, not spikes alone.
I find spikes directly from the speaker cabinet into the floor dont alleviate room resonance issues as they pass energy into the floor, making room resonance worse.
Rubber properly isolates, feel free to try for yourself.

I use rubber tap washers to stand my speakers on.
The tap washers can be doubled up to angle a speaker if needed. (my main speakers are subwoofers in their own right! They are mounted on spiked bases, rubber tap washers on top then speakers on top).
My subwoofer is spiked into a wooden breadboard which is sat straight on carpet and this seems to work very well for my room which is why I havent changed it.

[Rebel975]

I was going to use rubber feet anyway as I want to be able to use it on wooden floors.

Anyway, I asked the designer of the kit and he suggested pillow foam. He said something along the lines of "Most people just stuff an entire pillows worth of foam in there." (what size pillow though? A body pillow's worth, or a decorative couch pillow's worth?)

Mufflore- are you saying that the more filling I use the better?

[Mufflore]

Experiment, start by filling the cabinet a little bit firmer than just loose.
Buy a pair of pillows and see if you need to buy more once you can see how much will fit.
You can try packing more in and see how it affects the bass response.
If more fibre reduces resonances where the response is excessive, then yes, more is good.

The position/location of the sub in the room and the location of other furniture can heavily affect bass response.
Before you test the subs response critically, it needs placing correctly (or at least near optimally) and may need some room re-arranging (and/or acoustic room damping if you get severe issues) to get it working its best.
Can you describe the room, furniture, where you sit and where you want the sub?

[Rebel975]

I guess it would probably go where the GF is sitting in this picture. I've been wanting to take the couch out for a while anyway. It barely ever gets used.

(This picture was taken a couple days ago. We had just gotten the desk set up, and all of the cords/wires sorted out. My GF was pooped. lol)

[Mufflore]

OK.
Place the sub in the corner say 1ft away from each wall at least and check where in the room responds best to bass (walk around everywhere when deep bass is playing).
You should find a few places where bass response is strongest, the sub may already be in one of them.
The ideal is to get the sub and your seat into one of the better places each, as this should give you a deeper response.
If you cant quite manage to put your seat and the sub in the best places, such is life, do what you can.

Its not over then necessarily (although it might be), it depends if you've used enough wool and if you have resonance problems in your room.
We can work on it as things progress.

[Rebel975]

Sweet. I'll be buying the stuff soon. I'll start a new thread when I do.

As always Mufflore, you're very helpful.

[ROBSCIX]

Nice to see more people are taking their systems more seriously and optimizing them for the best sound!

Good stuff!

[Rebel975]

Our lease is up here and I'm looking at moving out of this condo and in to a house just so I can crank up the speakers without fear of the neighbors complaining. I'm pretty serious about it. lol

[ROBSCIX]

Originally Posted by Rebel975

Our lease is up here and I'm looking at moving out of this condo and in to a house just so I can crank up the speakers without fear of the neighbors complaining. I'm pretty serious about it. lol

It is nice to have a place where you can enjoy some volume.
If you have the space make sure you set the system up properly and dial it right in for your own personal taste. I tis great when you have the right space for setup.

[Mufflore]

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX

It is nice to have a place where you can enjoy some volume.

Oh Yeah!!
I highly recommend a detached house otherwise its the same issue.
Detached may be the norm where the op lives, where I am its nowhere near the norm, I got really lucky with my pad.

Although in the Summer on hot days, everyone has windows open so I go easy then.
Not had a complaint or mention of it yet, but last year, everyone received a form to fill in which asked about noisy neighbors.
I said none, I hope my neighbors said the same

[Rebel975]

Detached housing is pretty normal here, but I'm in a condo/apartment setup right now, so I have people on every side of me. The place we're looking at is a detached house with a full basement. I could have the perfect area for a speaker setup. It's cheaper than my current place anyway.

I do tech support at a local ISP, so the other bonus of this new place would be getting on the 100megabit employee plan. I hope it works out.

[Mufflore]

Sweeet.

[Dougiefreshness]

I just did an upgrade from an old DDR2 board to the Asus Sabertooth Z77 big improvement i'll tell you..And i was thinking on replacing my 5.1 logitech Z-5500, With my old sound card it just didn't sound right so changing boards i was forced to change my sound card also so i thought id make up my mind soon after i heard my new card on my new system..Anyway i bought the Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card and i'll tell you what a giant difference..There is no way im replacing my 5.1 i have a few friends who thought they had the best sound system till they came over... i have a friend who has worked in the car sound business for years and he said theres no doubt i have a audiophile system...And im about to lay down some serious cash on a pair of Ultrasone Pro 900. headphones now ill listen to music or play games the way its suppose to be played...

[ROBSCIX]

Just to clarify, You have a STX connected through digital to the Z-5500's?

[Rebel975]

Maybe he has the ST + H6 expansion, otherwise it seems like the STX would be overkill if he was just using the optical on it.

[ROBSCIX]

Which is why I asked. Using digital to that speaker system would:
1. Be a big waste of audio power.
2. Offer nothing over what the onboard offered through digital.

[Rebel975]

Okay. Last question, I swear.

I've been reading that the reference series subwoofers are a lot more accurate and have a lot less distortion, meanwhile the titanic subwoofers are just good for big bass (someone even described it as muddy compared to the reference drivers). Therefore, I was thinking about getting the RSS315HO-44 and seeing if I can talk the designer in to cutting a 12" baffle for the 1.25 cu ft Subwoofer box. On the website it says "I will be getting front baffles that match different sized woofers." , so it seems like it should definitely be doable to get that box with a 12" hole. And I'd only go for the 1.25cu ft box as people in the comment section of the driver are saying that 1cu ft is all it needs.

The sub would be presenting a 2 ohm load to the amp, and would have 1040W RMS available to it. The driver says that it can handle 700 watts RMS, so I'd be good power wise.

Does this seem like a wise choice?

[Rebel975]

The designer of the enclosures said that he is adding the option to get a 12" cutout on the 1.25cu ft box in about 1.5 weeks.

So, at this point I need to decide if I should get the 2.25 cu ft box and 12" titanic driver, or get the RSS315HO-44 and wait for the 1.25cu ft box with a 12" cutout.

[Mufflore]

Soz I didnt respond earlier, got a whacking headache and dont want to tell you something not right.

You have the right amp to handle just about any woofer and keep it safe from overload too.
Be sure to use the limiter, I think you already know from using it on your shaker.

Putting a 12" cone inside a box designed for a 10" cone might not give the best result.
The less air there is in the cabinet compared to the size of the cone, the more springy the air becomes, this is defined by a parameter called "Vas".
This will affect the resonant frequency of the subwoofer.
The lower the Vas (the smaller the cabinet for a certain woofer), the higher its resonant frequency and the less efficient the driver will become.
But with enough power and an EQ you might not ever know.

The main thing that concerns me about that 12" woofer is the frequency range only goes down to 25Hz, not very good for a custom woofer imo.
How about this, costs $40 more but worth it imo
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-650
Responds down to 15Hz, thats pretty deep!
Users seem to like it as well, Nine 5 star reviews.
http://reviews.parts-express.com/244...ws/reviews.htm

[Rebel975]

What size box though? People are saying the one I linked to only needs 1 cu ft. How about this one?

[Mufflore]

Can you be more specific?
I dont know if "the one" and "this one" are meant to be the same.
Is there a picture supposed to load? It doesnt appear here if so.

Is there a limit on the box size you can have at home?