Nvidia Digital color format - Need limited RGB or YCbCr444

[X7007]

Hi,

I have Nvidia 480Gtx + Philips 8404 LCD TV connected MiniHdmi-Hdmi cable.

And i read about this tv and iv'e found out it does not have support for 0-255Full Range RGB, as i got this answer from philips tech and i tested it on the ps3 using the Full range i got blackness of nothing on the black areas compare to normal black using the limited.

And i got to think there might be a problem using the Digital Color Format on the nvidia from the Adjust Desktop color settings cause it controls everything.
If Nvidia driver think i'm using a TV or LCD Monitor thinking it support Full RGB it will make thing look really crap. the only thing i thought i can do is to hack the drivers and change it to 16-235 limited RGB or change it to just YCbCr444 though it has limited and it can still support full range, but everytime i try to change it to YCbCr444 it reset to RGB again.

Any ideas what i can do to check if i am using the limited RGB or how to change it to YCbCr444 ?

Edit : If it says anything i'm using PC MODE on the tv settings, so maybe that fixes the thing and really uses 16-235 ? i'm not sure

[sapo_joe]

Originally Posted by X7007

Hi,

I have Nvidia 480Gtx + Philips 8404 LCD TV connected MiniHdmi-Hdmi cable.

And i read about this tv and iv'e found out it does not have support for 0-255Full Range RGB, as i got this answer from philips tech and i tested it on the ps3 using the Full range i got blackness of nothing on the black areas compare to normal black using the limited.

And i got to think there might be a problem using the Digital Color Format on the nvidia from the Adjust Desktop color settings cause it controls everything.
If Nvidia driver think i'm using a TV or LCD Monitor thinking it support Full RGB it will make thing look really crap. the only thing i thought i can do is to hack the drivers and change it to 16-235 limited RGB or change it to just YCbCr444 though it has limited and it can still support full range, but everytime i try to change it to YCbCr444 it reset to RGB again.

Any ideas what i can do to check if i am using the limited RGB or how to change it to YCbCr444 ?

Edit : If it says anything i'm using PC MODE on the tv settings, so maybe that fixes the thing and really uses 16-235 ? i'm not sure

Dunno if that's what you want, but under "adjust video color settings" on Nvidia CPL, there's an option that can change from 16-235 to 0-255 (Dynamic Range). I leave it at 0-255 as my TV supports it. Test it and see if it suits you!

[Apatch]

Good luck finding solution for your problem, nVidia is aware of this and just ignores frustrated users, I have the same problem but so far nothing works as it should, probably will get back to AMD, btw Intel got the same problem.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=225588

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1339139/nv...255-hdmi-range

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1348096/in...ct-color-space

Maybe it's time to say F*ck you !!! to nVidia like Linus did if it's the only way to have their attention.

[Meocene]

if your TV doesn't support full range 0-255 that's what it'll report to you gfx card i'm afraid.
that's what hdmi and dvi allows A/V devices to do - report their capabilities and auto configure.
sounds like the problem's your TV to me.

[Apatch]

Originally Posted by Meocene

if your TV doesn't support full range 0-255 that's what it'll report to you gfx card i'm afraid.
that's what hdmi and dvi allows A/V devices to do - report their capabilities and auto configure.
sounds like the problem's your TV to me.

Strange that my previous AMD cards - HD6850, 4870, X1900, all allowed to choose 0-255 range and it worked correctly with my projector Panasonic PT-AE900, in nVidia case you can chnge this range but it will not work at all, drivers will send 16-235 range signal no matter what you will choose in drivers, video splitter , filters/codecs, display device.

So I think that you do not understand where the problem is, try to read it first, some workarounds are available but some are outdated and in many cases nothing can help.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=216099
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=209267

[LuckyNumber8]

if your TV doesn't support full range 0-255 that's what it'll report to you gfx card i'm afraid.
that's what hdmi and dvi allows A/V devices to do - report their capabilities and auto configure.
sounds like the problem's your TV to me.

Almost all LCD PC monitors doesnt display 0-255 correctly, their color capabilities are much lower than that, but still Nv graphic card feeds them with fullRGB anyway.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=46
As author of this post shows, only PC resolutions produce correct RGB levels. If you use any of HD/SD resolution there are not only 16-235 levels but colors are bleeding and they are totaly bad, they look nothing like on ps3 when you set 16-235 colors space !!. Only Nvidia graphic card produce that horrible image.

I've tested multiple HDTV's (philips 9705 local dimming and planasonic v20 fullhd plasma included) and 3x Nv cards 680GTX, 8800Ultra, 9800GTX, all produce the same results on all of the hdtv's.

I even used adapter with "dream edid", that feature tells Nv card that it can send every feature, full rgb included, but still with Nvidia card refuse to send standard PC color space (only when I choose PC category resolution colors are correct). So nothing works!! When Nv card see that EDID reports its HDTV it will automaticly send "improved picture" no matter what capabilitiesits EDID reports, and that "improved picture" look horrible.

Right now only samsung HDTV allows Nv card to send correct colors, samsung HDTV has 2'edids. If you rename HDMI input to PC or choose PC HDMI input it will automaticly send 2'nd edid, this 2'nd edid will tell Nv card its connected to PC monitor, not HDTV.

I'm picture enthusiast, thats why I allways buy top graphic cards. I was always buying Nvidia GPU graphic cards since TNT2, but enough i enough. Right now they dont allow me to use my HDTV's because I cant stand that horrible picture, ps3 picture looks WAY better even when you set RGB to limmited. I dont have any other choice, I can only replace my 680GTX with radeon card because Nv doesnt even want to address the issue. They are not responding for mails, threads on their forums etc. It looks like something wrong is going on there, something that they dont want us to know .

If only more people would started complaining about that. Right now most Nvidia users are not aware of the issue, they are not aware of what they are missing. One year ago I was also not aware, I tought to myself picture is OK on HDTV. Only when I bought ps3 everything changed, I started noticing that colors on ps3 are much better and I didnt know why is that. So I started searching for something that can explain me whats going on. I read about SD/HD resoulutions issue, I switched to "PC" resolution and Immediately I was WOW, this is what I was missing, ps3 quality picture.

Even images show horrible difference , nvidia card is sending not only 16-235 because colors looks totally different Notice reds, oranges.. these colors are bleeding badly . And when you see correct picture just once, there is no way you could stand that horrible picture from Nv graphic card

[MrBonk]

Oh wow dude that sucks. I haven't used my PC on my HDTV for a while so I haven't had a chance to find anything. But keep spamming them with this same message over and over. Maybe they will get the picture eventually :/

[Benny_26]

Originally Posted by X7007

Hi,

I have Nvidia 480Gtx + Philips 8404 LCD TV connected MiniHdmi-Hdmi cable.

And i read about this tv and iv'e found out it does not have support for 0-255Full Range RGB, as i got this answer from philips tech and i tested it on the ps3 using the Full range i got blackness of nothing on the black areas compare to normal black using the limited.

And i got to think there might be a problem using the Digital Color Format on the nvidia from the Adjust Desktop color settings cause it controls everything.
If Nvidia driver think i'm using a TV or LCD Monitor thinking it support Full RGB it will make thing look really crap. the only thing i thought i can do is to hack the drivers and change it to 16-235 limited RGB or change it to just YCbCr444 though it has limited and it can still support full range, but everytime i try to change it to YCbCr444 it reset to RGB again.

Any ideas what i can do to check if i am using the limited RGB or how to change it to YCbCr444 ?

Edit : If it says anything i'm using PC MODE on the tv settings, so maybe that fixes the thing and really uses 16-235 ? i'm not sure

Hi,
I just did a test, and you can be happy!

When you change to YCbCr444 and it looks like it changed back to RGB, its actually not.

I have a Samsung 46C7000, and just for you I decided to test this bug, in the TV menus, I have an option to change color space, Limited and Normal (aka full)

When I choose YCbCr444 and press apply the Nvidia CPL says it changed back but when I check TV option the Color space option is grayed out on Normal and cant be changed.
When I choose RGB, this option is unlocked and I can choose Limited and Normal..

So dont worry mate, just choose and press apply and it will work fine, its some bug with CPL that it always shows RGB

[Benny_26]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber8

Almost all LCD PC monitors doesnt display 0-255 correctly, their color capabilities are much lower than that, but still Nv graphic card feeds them with fullRGB anyway.

Cant you use YCbCr444 mode and force full range on your TV? It works with my Samsung.
I think its even better looking then RGB

[Glottiz]

When you are connecting display with HDMI, limited RGB will always be used (because Nvidia assumes you are using HDTV and it doesn't support full range, which is silly because pretty much every single new HDTV does support full range). Anyway, if you want to use full range RGB over HDMI you need to do this fix.

Run the driver installation file to the point where the file contents are extracted. Then cancel the rest of the installation.

Go to the folder where the files contents were extracted to.

Search for the file nv_disp.inf and open it.

Search for the section [nv_miscBase_addreg__01]

Under this section add the registry value:
HKR,,SetDefaultFullRGBRangeOnHDMI,%REG_DWORD%,1

Repeat this step for [nv_miscBase_addreg__02] and [nv_miscBase_addreg__03] and so on until all [nv_miscBase_addreg__xx" have the above registry value.

Save this .inf with the changes.

Run the setup.exe file in this folder to install the driver with the modified .inf. Each time you reload a driver, you will need to repeat this process.

Also, the registry key above only address Vista and Windows 7 drivers.

[LuckyNumber8]

Run the driver installation file to the point where the file contents are extracted. Then cancel the rest of the installation.

Go to the folder where the files contents were extracted to.

Search for the file nv_disp.inf and open it.

Search for the section [nv_miscBase_addreg__01]

Under this section add the registry value:
HKR,,SetDefaultFullRGBRangeOnHDMI,%REG_DWORD%,1

Repeat this step for [nv_miscBase_addreg__02] and [nv_miscBase_addreg__03] and so on until all [nv_miscBase_addreg__xx" have the above registry value.

Save this .inf with the changes.

Run the setup.exe file in this folder to install the driver with the modified .inf. Each time you reload a driver, you will need to repeat this process.

Also, the registry key above only address Vista and Windows 7 drivers.

Tried that yesterday with new 304.48 beta's but I will try it again with WHQL drivers. With new betas I have found 35 lines " [nv_miscBase_addreg__xx " and I tought its strange because everywhere people said about 10 lines, not 35

[Glottiz]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber8

Tried that yesterday with new 304.48 beta's but I will try it again with WHQL drivers. With new betas I have found 35 lines " [nv_miscBase_addreg__xx " and I tought its strange because everywhere people said about 10 lines, not 35

that's not strange, it's normal. i use this fix with every drivers.

[ricardonuno1980]

0-255 hasn't issue by driver because most LCD or LCD-LED can't get deep black levels - the fault is backlight. But OLED, Plasma or CRT only can get deep black.

[sapo_joe]

I noticed a little bleed when I use the DVI to HDMI cable I have. When using the normal D-sub, it is flawless. So I keep the two cables attached, using the HDMI only when watching copy-protected stuff... (Very rarely)

[Apatch]

Finally registry trick worked for me, not sure if it work excactly as on AMD card but so far better this than nothing

"
UserModeDriverGUID

Everywhere you find it (F3 to find next occurance), add the DWORD entry below next to it.

SetDefaultFullRGBRangeOnHDMI

setting its value to 1.

Then just reboot, or perhaps change resolution once or twice, and the color difference will noticibly kick in. I'm sure someone could make a nice little .bat script to do this also Might be a nicer solution than editing inf files all of the time. "

Not sure where you added this DWORD 32 value - LuckyNumber8, but it supposed to be directly under classes like : 0000, 0001, 0002 ...

My projector is not calibrated well, but test patterns shows that full black/white ranges are probably not possible to achieve by my display, if this not officially supported so maybe that's why nVidia do not what to force this mode to be partially supported on non-capable displays.

This are only my thoughts, maybe incorrect ...

[X7007]

Originally Posted by Benny_26

Hi,
I just did a test, and you can be happy!

When you change to YCbCr444 and it looks like it changed back to RGB, its actually not.

I have a Samsung 46C7000, and just for you I decided to test this bug, in the TV menus, I have an option to change color space, Limited and Normal (aka full)

When I choose YCbCr444 and press apply the Nvidia CPL says it changed back but when I check TV option the Color space option is grayed out on Normal and cant be changed.
When I choose RGB, this option is unlocked and I can choose Limited and Normal..

So dont worry mate, just choose and press apply and it will work fine, its some bug with CPL that it always shows RGB

XD Thanks
Ye the YCbCr444 works after i change resolution or something it sticks and stay, i'll do some more testing, any idea where can i see differences ?? like in this site http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ to see colour differences or anything that will tell me if it looks better ?

EE: when i'm using the PC Resolution on the Display > Change Resolution Nvidia Control Panel there are Better* Colours !!

Better than the 1080p 1920x1080 (native) on the HD,SD.

But the PC resolution is only 1600x1200 !

What do i need to do !

The red looks DULL like its not even red, like greyed non colour red, fak. What can i do !

People on the PS3 Forums says almost non LCD Tv panel can do 0-255 cause there is some limit on the hardware, i don't care what everyone has now and about brightness things. Can i do anything so i will get the PC thing with 1920x1080 ?? Its freaking uglyyyyyyy on the thing now

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ca...vels-xvycc-rgb

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1339139/nv...-hdmi-range/30

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...34#post1567634

[LuckyNumber8]

The red looks DULL like its not even red, like greyed non colour red, fak. What can i do !

People on the PS3 Forums says almost non LCD Tv panel can do 0-255 cause there is some limit on the hardware, i don't care what everyone has now and about brightness things. Can i do anything so i will get the PC thing with 1920x1080 ?? Its freaking uglyyyyyyy on the thing now

As I told, that you must be runing 16-235 before . Yes, PC resolutions looks superb, it looks exactly like PS3 picture. But I must say, looks like SD/HD resolutions not only adds 16-235 levels, only that dont produce color bleeding


Maybe if more and more people will be aware about this issue Nv will do something. Right now they will respond if you ask for anything, just not for HDMI issue, its really strange how they treat theirs customers

[Benny_26]

Originally Posted by X7007

XD Thanks
Ye the YCbCr444 works after i change resolution or something it sticks and stay, i'll do some more testing, any idea where can i see differences ?? like in this site http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ to see colour differences or anything that will tell me if it looks better ?

EE: when i'm using the PC Resolution on the Display > Change Resolution Nvidia Control Panel there are Better* Colours !!

Better than the 1080p 1920x1080 (native) on the HD,SD.

But the PC resolution is only 1600x1200 !

What do i need to do !

The red looks DULL like its not even red, like greyed non colour red, fak. What can i do !

People on the PS3 Forums says almost non LCD Tv panel can do 0-255 cause there is some limit on the hardware, i don't care what everyone has now and about brightness things. Can i do anything so i will get the PC thing with 1920x1080 ?? Its freaking uglyyyyyyy on the thing now

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ca...vels-xvycc-rgb

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1339139/nv...-hdmi-range/30

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...34#post1567634

Do you have VGA connector on your TV? Cant you just use it instead?

[LuckyNumber8]

Do you have VGA connector on your TV? Cant you just use it instead?

My sharp HDTV have one VGA port, but still Nv cards reads from EDID (as I can read in Nv control panel) its HDTV and sends SD/HD resolutions, not PC resolutions. Samsung HDTV's has fix for that, they use 2 EDID's, one is for general use (HDTV) and 2'nd for PC. If Nv card reads from EDIT it is PC monitor, there are no problems at all, colors are perfect.

One year from now I'm planing to buy samsung OLED HDTV, that will solve my problems without asking Nv for anything. Also next time I will try Radeon cards, Nv just lost one customer.

[maco07]

Only way I found to solve it (get full RGB 0-255 without any resampling) was following this steps:

Download Phoenix EDID Designer: http://www.tucows.com/preview/329441

Decline Tucows disclaimer to avoid Advertising !!!

Run Phoenix EDID Designer

Click File -> New EDID

Click Tools -> Extract Registry EDID

A list with all your monitors/HTDVs will show, select the correct one and then click EXTRACT EDID

Then click Tools -> Byte Viewer.

Take note of bytes in column 00 and File 08 to 0B. You will get something like this: 24 4D FC 19

Close Phoenix

Run "Regedit" & Navigate to:

HK_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\ Video

Open the folder & check each folder (eg. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\ Video\{E0CC2030-CCD8-49B9-8267-83140EF868CB} )

Check each sub folder called "0000" until you come across one which expands and includes the following:

>Display
>settings
>Uninstall
>Volatilesettings

Once you've located this, right click the "0000" folder and select "New" followed by "Binary Value".

Rename the value to:

OverrideEdidFlags0

and hit enter or okay

Next up, you need to right click the new key and select "Modify Binary Data" from the list.

You should have already written down the 4 numbers you've got from the Edid using the Pheonix utility.

the "*" is where you need to input your numbers followed by the rest so it looks something like:

*, *, *, *, 00, 00, ff, ff, 04, 00, 00, 00, 7e, 01, 00


Click okay once your done, close Regedit & reboot.

Just remember to change your default audio device if you were using an external decoder

NB.
Note: If you expand all "0000" keys and come across more than one instance of multiple folders, I recommend doing the key for one only, then reboot, check. If it doesn't work on the 1st, then delete the key you created & move down the list.. rinse and repeat.

[shadex]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16889102531

- Will this work with YCbCr444 on 560 Ti? Let me know, and how do I tell the difference? Is there a program that tells otherwise?

[Mda400]

*moved comment to its own thread*

[GhostXL]

Originally Posted by shadex

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16889102531

- Will this work with YCbCr444 on 560 Ti? Let me know, and how do I tell the difference? Is there a program that tells otherwise?

I'd look for something else to use as a monitor. You do realize that is only 720p.

[IKnowJack]

glad i brought samsung!

there was a few sets of drivers that where causing the color bleeding/color range problems on my monitor... it pushed out PC resolutions no matter what settings on the monitor.. turns out that it had to do with how it was connected...eg.. i originally had it setup with a DVI to DVI cable..changed to HDMI to HDMI (no adapters) and the color range problems disapeared

check your cables!...they aint all made equal!

[Redemption80]

Most cables are made equal, but the "exact" connection used can cause the hardware/software to assume certain right and wrong things.

One thing i noticed though was that when i forced full range RGB on my HTPC, i had to change it to YCbCr444 or i would clip the whites/blacks.
RGB looked ok, but when running a calibration disc i noticed it was a mess, and things looked so much better once i changed.