Upgrade to z77 or x79 platform

[Gripen90]

I'm getting ready to upgrade my old system, and I'm bringing 3x GTX 580 and 16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 1333Mhz over into the new build (along with disc-drives and psu).

However I'm at a toss at which plat form to go for ! I've already found the components I want for either z77 or x79 and the price is the same of around $690 and the budget is max $700 (incl shipping).

1st system z77 platform.

ASUS P8Z77 WS (3-way-SLi dual card capable)
Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz LGA1155 incl. intel box cooler.


2nd system x79 platform.

GIGABYTE GA-X79-UD3 (rev. 1.0) (3-way-SLi dual card capable)
Intel Core i7 3820 (tray)
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer i30 Cooler

I no nothing is futureproof but I still want to have something that still gives a good punch for at least 1½year.
To examplify I can tell that my old AM2+ Asus M4N82 Deluxe board from 2009 still is operational and has survived every AM2/AM2+/AM3 CPU's and is currently running a AMD Phenom II X6 1090T which still is decent.

So it's with that kind of perspective in mind I'm trying to get the longest lasting platform....eventhough it's impossible predict the future.

What would be the most sensible change ?

[BlackZero]

Definitely x79, especially with 3x GTX 580 being a lot more system dependent.

If you were to swap the i5 3570 for an i7 2600k/2700k/3770k then it would be closer but as you also want better future upgrade path x79 is the better option.

[BLEH!]

This is a tricky question. TBH I'd be tempted to go for a Z77 system, but with an older CPU, like the 25/26/2700K, as these clock higher than the newer ones due to the heat problem, but you also get native USB 3.0 support. Quad channel RAM is kinda pointless unless you do simulations and other madly CPU intensive applications like that.

[deltatux]

Definitely for a 3-way SLi, you'd be crazy not going X79. The Z77 platform only has a really finite numbers of PCIe lanes. Your GPUs may starve from lack of PCIe lanes to feed it on the Z77.

deltatux

[Gripen90]

Thank you. It sounds like my original plan of going with the X79 and Core i7 3820 makes sense...eventhough the Core i7 3820 doesn't support PCI-E 3.0 which the Core i5 3570K does (well at least that's what I got told once).

[BlackZero]

According to anandtech it does.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5264/s...ie-30-it-works


Though I should add that for tri-sli gtx 580 pci-e 2.1 x8 would probably be sufficient in most cases, but PCI-e 3.0 would of course be more future proof in case you changed to a better cpu or graphics cards.








http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...re,2910-3.html

[Gripen90]

Originally Posted by BlackZero

According to anandtech it does.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5264/s...ie-30-it-works


Though I should add that for tri-sli gtx 580 pci-e 2.1 x8 would probably be sufficient in most cases, but PCI-e 3.0 would of course be more future proof in case you changed to a better cpu or graphics cards.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...re,2910-3.html

Thank ! that clarifies a lot... then I really wonder why so many have been telling me that going for PCIE 3.0 support with a Core i7 3820 was a dumb thing to do, and at least a 3930K would be needed for PCI-E 3.0 support.... else I should settle for the z77 platform with a 3570K as minimum

[smashly]

What I don't understand with the link to Toms Hardware where they enabled pcie 3.0 on an x79 mobo with a 7970 gpu and get better speeds...
i7- 3820, 3930K, 3960x are listed as PCI Express Revision 2.0 going from intel specs.
Then you look at intel spec on the x79 chipset and it also specified as pcie 2.0.
So how is pcie 3.0 support offered on the x79 mobo?
x79 chipset specs
i7-3960X Processor Extreme Edition specs
i7-3930K Processor specs
i7-3820 Processor specs

[Enmity]

Correct me if I am wrong, but even though some x79 boards support PCIE 3.0 currently NONE of the 2011 socket CPUs can run PCIE 3.0 - the only way to truely enable PCIE 3.0 is via Z77 with a 22nm ivybridge cpu.

When Ivybridge-E hits the shelves on x79 THEN we will be able to reap the benefits of PCIE 3.0 simply because the CPU's will finally support it.

Last time I checked, this was right - unless pcie 3.0 support has somehow been implemented in a firmware upgrade or some kind of over the air upgrade lol...

[Gripen90]

Originally Posted by Enmity

Correct me if I am wrong, but even though some x79 boards support PCIE 3.0 currently NONE of the 2011 socket CPUs can run PCIE 3.0 - the only way to truely enable PCIE 3.0 is via Z77 with a 22nm ivybridge cpu.

When Ivybridge-E hits the shelves on x79 THEN we will be able to reap the benefits of PCIE 3.0 simply because the CPU's will finally support it.

Last time I checked, this was right - unless pcie 3.0 support has somehow been implemented in a firmware upgrade or some kind of over the air upgrade lol...

That's all those kind of different things I've heard that makes me dizzy to what the "truth" is with this CPU and/or platform. According almost every review of the Core i7 3820 they state that there are 40 PCIe lanes that meet the PCIe 3.0 specifications.

"The chip features four computing cores with Hyper-Threading support working at 3.6GHz (3.8GHz max Turbo), 10MB of Level 3 cache memory, a quad-channel memory controller, and a built-in 40-lane PCI Express 3.0 controller."

That's from the review here on Guru3D.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i...essor-review/3

[Enmity]

hmmm, strange..isn't it the X79 chipset that has the 40 PCIe lanes which meet pcie 3.0?

Now you've got me wondering lol

anyone?

[smashly]

Originally Posted by Enmity

hmmm, strange..isn't it the X79 chipset that has the 40 PCIe lanes which meet pcie 3.0?

Now you've got me wondering lol

anyone?

Nope, going by Intel specs the x79 chipset has:

PCI Express* 2.0 Interface Offers up to 5 GT/s for fast access to peripheral devices and networking with up to 8 PCI Express 2.0 x1 ports, configurable as 2 x1s and 1 x4 depending on motherboard designs.

[Enmity]

sorry, I should have made myself more clear, i meant that "some" x79 boards support pcie gen3 - the x79 chipset itself has the 40 lanes.

eg:

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Int...2011/Intel_X79
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/lis...jid=0&p=2&v=28

Notice a lot of them say pcie gen3 ready? the boards definitely support them, I guess they didn't initially and have since had bios revisions to include the support for gen 3?

Anyway, the real issue here is finding out if the 3820 does, or does not support pcie gen3 - my thoughts were that no, it doesnt, only ivybridge does and ivybridge-e will bring and complete the support for gen3 to the x79 platform

Edit:
From intels website :
http://ark.intel.com/products/63698/...Cache-3_60-GHz)

under expansion options : PCI Express revision = 2.0

No, this cpu does not support PCIE 3.0

[Gripen90]

The Guru3D review of the Core i7 3820 states:

The chip features four computing cores with Hyper-Threading support working at 3.6GHz (3.8GHz max Turbo), 10MB of Level 3 cache memory, a quad-channel memory controller, and a built-in 40-lane PCI Express 3.0 controller.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i...essor-review/1

I am getting seriously confused now !!!

A competing review site states this:

"No longer will you have to sacrifice other PCIe device functionality due to a lack of PCIe lanes; eight lanes are now provided by the X79 PCH, on top of the 40 available from the CPU"

[-Tj-]

I vote for X79

btw ditch that "entry" Ga-x79-DS3 for Asus X79P9. You will be tankful later
http://www.overclock.net/t/1221208/i...#post_17344855


And btw PCIe 3.0 will work..


edit: but not with 3x GTX 580, they are still at pcie 2.0 (no difference in benchmarks above), for example 3x GTX 670 would show benefits at pcie 3.0.

[Xzibit]

Get 1 690 and Z77.
X79 is to expensive

[---TK---]

X79 for tri sli

[BlackZero]

Originally Posted by Enmity

No, this cpu does not support PCIE 3.0

According to Guru3D, Anandtech, techpowerup, hardware canucks, et al, PCI-e 3.0 does work with sandy bridge-E and x79, they also have numbers to prove this as shown in the link I posted earlier. There's really no need for more discussion.

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by Gripen90

The Guru3D review of the Core i7 3820 states:

The chip features four computing cores with Hyper-Threading support working at 3.6GHz (3.8GHz max Turbo), 10MB of Level 3 cache memory, a quad-channel memory controller, and a built-in 40-lane PCI Express 3.0 controller.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i...essor-review/1

I am getting seriously confused now !!!

A competing review site states this:

"No longer will you have to sacrifice other PCIe device functionality due to a lack of PCIe lanes; eight lanes are now provided by the X79 PCH, on top of the 40 available from the CPU"

I’m not sure where the confusion comes in.

Basically it seems, according to the cited quoted remarks, 40-lane PCIe via the built in (on chip / AKA CPU) 3.0 controller and an additional 8 lanes via the X79 PCH (chipset). These two sources of info are not in conflict as far as I can see.

***edit***

BTW, I recently bought an Intel Sandy Bridge-E Core i7 3930K and Asus P9X79 Deluxe motherboard. I paid ~$499.99 USD for the processor and I had a coupon that made the motherboard very cheap (around ~$110 or so). I am a little surprised at how quickly the price of the Core i7 3820 has dropped though. It went from ~$300 to ~$279, to ~$249 to ~$229 to ~$200 at Microcenter. ~$200 is a very good deal on the Core i7 3820 IMO. Too bad some X79 boards don’t have Intel Thunderbolt support like some Z77 boards do.

[Gripen90]

Originally Posted by -Tj-

I vote for X79

btw ditch that "entry" Ga-x79-DS3 for Asus X79P9. You will be tankful later
http://www.overclock.net/t/1221208/i...#post_17344855


And btw PCIe 3.0 will work..


edit: but not with 3x GTX 580, they are still at pcie 2.0 (no difference in benchmarks above), for example 3x GTX 670 would show benefits at pcie 3.0.

Thanks - yes the GTX 580 are still "just" pci-e 3.0

And the Gigabyte X79 UD3 will do fine. I don't plan OC.

Originally Posted by Xzibit

Get 1 690 and Z77.
X79 is to expensive

Ehm a GTX 690 in Denmark is around 7999Dkk aka $1428 - that more than twice the cost for the systems I've listed in the first post.

The X79 board that supports 3-way SLi is cheaper than the z77 board I've listed.

[BlackZero]

Here's a sandy bridge-e based Xeon that is listed as pci-e 3.0 by intel.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64582

[deltatux]

Intel Core i7 3820 specification according to Intel's own specs state that it only has PCIe 2.0:
http://ark.intel.com/products/63698

To be honest, do you really need PCIe 3.0? Many GPUs can't even take advantage of PCIe 2.0 fully yet. Sure, there would be less overhead with PCIe 3.0, but is it worth potentially running a platform without enough PCIe lane to feed your GPUs in the first place?

Even with these on-motherboard solutions, they're still limited in PCIe lanes and would likely bottleneck at the CPU. No matter how many lanes you add on the motherboard, if the main PCIe controller which is on the CPU doesn't support them and require a third-party chip to add these lanes, they're going to still be going through those 16 PCIe lanes no matter how you cut it compared to 40 lanes that's provided by the SB-E processor.

Intel specifically designed SB-E for enthusiasts (those likely to run multi-GPU configurations and demand top-of-the-line performance) and server/HPC workloads while regular Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge was designed for the regular consumer and business computing which normally don't use multi-GPU configurations so that's how they segmented the market.

deltatux

[BlackZero]

Without repeating what's already been posted.

According to intel the i7-3960x is pci-e 2.0 as well.

http://ark.intel.com/products/63696


Yet almost every source that tested the chips/boards has stated it to be pci-e 3.0 and even provided numbers to prove it. I also posted a link to an sb-e based xeon that is listed as pci-e 3.0, now unless intel uses two different sets of circuitry for essentially the same production run it's highly unlikely that two chips based on the same architecture would use different pci-e standards.


edit:

Further reading

http://www.techpowerup.com/162942/Ge...E-Systems.html


Hopefully this should put the matter to rest once and for all.

Intel increased bandwidth on the other side of the chip as well. A single SNB-E CPU features 40 PCIe lanes that are compliant with rev 3.0 of the PCI Express Base Specification (aka PCIe 3.0). With no PCIe 3.0 GPUs available (yet) to test and validate the interface, Intel lists PCIe 3.0 support in the chip's datasheet but is publicly guaranteeing PCIe 2.0 speeds. Intel does add that some PCIe devices may be able to operate at Gen 3 speeds, but we'll have to wait and see once those devices hit the market.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5091/i...gh-end-alive/2

[Gripen90]

I'm going for the X79 system just need the last $ to be made and then I'll make the order.

[sykozis]

PCIe 2.0 or PCIe 3.0 makes no difference with GTX580's in Tri-SLI....period. GTX580 is a PCIe 2.0 card and can not make use of the additional bandwidth from PCIe 3.0 anyway.