Onboard Sound Vs. Add in Sound Card

[clay]

Originally Posted by GenClaymore

You can try the Paq drivers that's in this same sound cards sub-section of the forum. Its at the very top.

Found one,been havin a bad day try it tomorrow....

[tweakpower]

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX

Onboard Sound Vs. Add in Sound Card

Onboard sound chips need to use CPU cycles to process sound. This robs your sytem of performance. If your sound chip has EAX which alot of them do these days the issue is compounded usually degrading your performance somewhere in the area of 5-15 FPS in games. This is usually the reported number of FPS that users report getting when then install a PCI sound solution. This is not the worst issue though.

So, is this still a case with realtek onboard sound? Also, is there any way to get "normal" sound in windows 7 with this sound card (ALC 887 codec)? I know Win 7 don't use direct sound, but XP for example with this onboard card have much superior sound, in Win 7 SUB is almost cuted at half, and quality of freq. range is messed up. Any solution for this, other then changing to new sound card (I'm quite fine with XP tho, but this keeping me out from Win 7-...)?

[ROBSCIX]

The best way to have best sound quality for your system is to get an add in soundcard.

[bodean]

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX

The best way to have best sound quality for your system is to get an add in soundcard.

Pay for better speakers, not an add in soundcard. Onboard is fine.

[ROBSCIX]

Originally Posted by bodean

Pay for better speakers, not an add in soundcard. Onboard is fine.

Fine, according to who?
Quality speaker aren't much good when you are running a low quality, garbage source like onboard.

[GenClaymore]

Originally Posted by bodean

Pay for better speakers, not an add in soundcard. Onboard is fine.

Onboard audio isnt fine for a source with better speakers and headphones. You will tell that the source isnt up to par when you par the good speaker or good headphones with the onboard audio.

You need a good source just as well you need good gear. If you use good gear with bad source then your not doing your gear any justice, Same wiht using Good source with bad gear. But sorry onboard isn't fine unless your using cheap speakers or cheap headphones.

Only way what you said would come into play, if you was using the onboard audio Digital output into a external dac. Then the dac would be doing all of the work and the on-board audio digital out would be a transport sending any effects and data over the cable.

no offensive but any one who says on-board audio is good enough for audiophile headphones and speakers using analog must be tone deaf or never actually used on-board audio with the said headphone. Because I have while waiting for a sound card to come, and it wasn't pretty so it def not fine.

[Mufflore]

Originally Posted by bodean

Pay for better speakers, not an add in soundcard. Onboard is fine.

Why havent you upgraded your speakers then?

[Mufflore]

oops, wrong thread

[Decane]

Not all onboard is created equal, guys. If one needs to choose between a dedicated soundcard and better headphones/speakers, I would definitely be inclined to recommend the latter, unless the person's onboard is from the stone ages and their pre-existing headphones/speakers are already decent. To be honest, I didn't notice that much difference between my Essence STX and my ALC889; the transient response of the former was better, and as a result, it didn't sound as confused during complex passages. But apart from the amplification, that was the only substantial difference between the two. Tonality was also slightly warmer on the STX, but certainly not enough to make me take the proverbial crap all over onboard as it seems people on these boards generally do. Of course the STX is technically way superior, but technicalities have no value for me unless they translate into perceptible gains.

[ROBSCIX]

Originally Posted by Decane

Not all onboard is created equal, guys. If one needs to choose between a dedicated soundcard and better headphones/speakers, I would definitely be inclined to recommend the latter, unless the person's onboard is from the stone ages and their pre-existing headphones/speakers are already decent. To be honest, I didn't notice that much difference between my Essence STX and my ALC889; the transient response of the former was better, and as a result, it didn't sound as confused during complex passages. But apart from the amplification, that was the only substantial difference between the two. Tonality was also slightly warmer on the STX, but certainly not enough to make me take the proverbial crap all over onboard as it seems people on these boards generally do. Of course the STX is technically way superior, but technicalities have no value for me unless they translate into perceptible gains.

Created equal, no but high quality also a big NO. Once a person is used to the signature of a good add-in card it is very hard to go back to onboard because of the quality difference.

If you want the best audio for your system, you need a good source and good playback gear. If you are satisfied with what you have great but don't try and convince us that we have it all wrong and onboards are actually good!

We generally advise against onboards because we know what they sound like and what else is available. You can pick up an entry level card for $30 and it would surpass your onboard easily.
The STX is superior in EVERY way, not just technically...
I guess there are people out that that say onboard GFX is good enough also.

BTW, looking at your specs, you are using a set of DT880's with an onboard, Are you using anything else?

[GenClaymore]

Decane you sound like you didn't have the Xonar ST Config correctly for the DT880 600ohm, because on-board audio is still on-board audio no matter the model of it. Most of the times they add a new feature to the design and make a new model for it. It sound quality is still tied into the cheap components they put on it for the sound quality.

If you do not config the Xonar ST headphone amp settings correctly to those DT880 600ohm it will not sound right, It also can be the generic JRC's that are in the I/V sockets that are used when the headphone output is used.

Changing those generic JRC's is what I suggest every one to do the first thing they get the sound card to change them to a pair of LME49720NA,LT1024ACN8,LT1213ACN8 or LT1364. As the generics can make the source not sound good, its the first thing I do which is take those jrcs out and put them in a box and forget about them.

Because the generic op-amps doesn't do the headphones justice. But onboard audio do not sound just as good as a good sound card, just because my on-board audio isn't realtek this time around do not mean what you said is still right, It still isn't. You simply just cant tell the difference between it, I know a couple of people who cant tell the difference between audio sources but only because they never used any thing else.

But you will not tell us is a placebo or any thing else because it surely not and the difference is big between on-board audio and a good audiophile grade sound card.

Using DT880/pro with on-boad audio is a huge no no, I also hope you notrunning them un-amped, as they benefit big from a headphone amp, i also hope you didn't plug your DT880 600ohm's into the RCA outputs of the STX with the adapter as that output isn't amped. Then if you did plug it into the headphone output did you config the headphone amp settings towards the ohm of the headphones, meaning did you set the hp amp to 600ohm.

[Decane]

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX

If you are satisfied with what you have great but don't try and convince us that we have it all wrong and onboards are actually good!

Of course you don't have it "all wrong" but there may be some mild exaggeration going on here occasionally.

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX

BTW, looking at your specs, you are using a set of DT880's with an onboard, Are you using anything else?

For the moment, no. But I will be looking at something akin to the Essence One in the future.

Originally Posted by GenClaymore

Your issue Decane that you simply cant tell the differences, but don't tell me and any one else that there isn't a different when there is and we hearded it.

No need to get defensive; my post was not an attack, but an acknowledgement. It may well be that I "simply can't tell the differences".

Originally Posted by GenClaymore

The main thing is you most likely didn't have the Xonar ST headphone output amp settings set to match the DT880 600ohm,. ohm settings. If you don't set sound card amp up right then it isn't gonna sound right.

I had the setting right, trust me.

[GenClaymore]

I ninja edited my post and some times i take a while til i post it as I saw my post was coming off as i was annoyed or something but I wasnt.

[Pill Monster]

Have caps been turned off again? Do you guys find all your caps being reduced to little letters when posting?

[Decane]

To clarify: yes, I set the headphone amp to 'extra high gain' (i.e. 600 ohm) and yes I plugged my DT880 into the headphone out. However, I did not get very much run-in time with the STX because it turned out to be faulty and/or incompatible with my mobo (thread), so it is possible that I had not gotten properly 'used' to the STX's sound signature by the time I regressed to onboard, which would explain why I did not notice much difference going back to it. I suppose my opinion might differ had I spent 1 month with the STX before returning to onboard rather than only a few days.

[ROBSCIX]

Originally Posted by Decane

Of course you don't have it "all wrong" but there may be some mild exaggeration going on here occasionally.

Exaggerations like what? They ARE low end, they DO have poor specifications and they DO sound awful incomparison to what is available.
Where is the exaggeration?

Originally Posted by Decane

For the moment, no. But I will be looking at something akin to the Essence One in the future.

what I meant was are you using an amp or running straight to the onboard?

To note, your testing between the onboard and STX, was not so good. You cannot do quick A/B tests with two sources. You have to spend time with each component because your ears/brain get used to one signature.
You said you had to return the card so that might have also been an issue with your testing, in that the card was not operating properly.

[tweakpower]

Well, to be honest, i don't have a clue what you guys talking about . There is a difference between XP and Win 7 for realtek onboard sound card. My question was, since Vista/7 do not support direct sound, is that same on HQ sound card?

I'm using 8 years old Jazz speakers system, did some modifications after few months of using, and honestly I'm quite satisfied with sound quality ( radio, mp3, movies nothing more really). I really can't care less for surround sound in movies (since realtek is not that good for that...). So basically, is that Win 7 problem only related to Realtek sc?

Way back, when was a teen, i was made some custom boxes for subs etc. had up to 4 15" + 2 12" subs in 4x4 room That was a feeling . So i know what is good quality (at least bass), and to be honest, all Hi-Fi system falls far behind professional thing on open. While in room, they can keep up, and even small subs have better quality of sound than larger subs (example 8" sub vs 10"+ subs).

[Mufflore]

Originally Posted by tweakpower

Well, to be honest, i don't have a clue what you guys talking about . There is a difference between XP and Win 7 for realtek onboard sound card. My question was, since Vista/7 do not support direct sound, is that same on HQ sound card?

Thats nothing to do with the sound card (it doesnt change when you install a different OS), thats down to drivers.
If the mfr doesnt provide good enough drivers, theres a lesson to be learnt.
Decent add in soundcards dont have audio quality issues that vary with OS.

I'm using 8 years old Jazz speakers system, did some modifications after few months of using, and honestly I'm quite satisfied with sound quality ( radio, mp3, movies nothing more really). I really can't care less for surround sound in movies (since realtek is not that good for that...). So basically, is that Win 7 problem only related to Realtek sc?

Looks like it, there may be other low end audio solutions that suffer similarly.

Way back, when was a teen, i was made some custom boxes for subs etc. had up to 4 15" + 2 12" subs in 4x4 room That was a feeling . So i know what is good quality (at least bass), and to be honest, all Hi-Fi system falls far behind professional thing on open. While in room, they can keep up, and even small subs have better quality of sound than larger subs (example 8" sub vs 10"+ subs).

Quality hifi is a different league.

You cannot rate subs on size alone, your premise isnt correct either.

[tweakpower]

Originally Posted by Mufflore

Thats nothing to do with the sound card (it doesnt change when you install a different OS), thats down to drivers.
If the mfr doesnt provide good enough drivers, theres a lesson to be learnt.
Decent add in soundcards dont have audio quality issues that vary with OS.

Looks like it, there may be other low end audio solutions that suffer similarly.

Quality hifi is a different league.

You cannot rate subs on size alone, your premise isnt correct either.

1. Thanks, yeah, that's what i tho, drivers = sound card, good quality sc don't have that problem. So thanks again, that means, another sc if want to use Win 7 (Vista or latter?).

2. I'm not sure what you mean by that, it's a sound card problem (this system don't have decoder, actually it has, but i don't have it). For sound quality of this very system, you can compare it to Logitech z5500, and that very overpriced system will lose .

3. You are right, but, among other factors, this is true statement, if speaker is done as best as they can, 6-8" subs will beat any other sub (in terms of quality) above 10". That's the fact, i didn't make this up

[RagDoll_Effect]

Originally Posted by tweakpower

3. You are right, but, among other factors, this is true statement, if speaker is done as best as they can, 6-8" subs will beat any other sub (in terms of quality) above 10". That's the fact, i didn't make this up

A good 12" Sub, is best

regards,
RagDoll.

[tweakpower]

Originally Posted by RagDoll_Effect

A good 12" Sub, is best

regards,
RagDoll.

hahaha, for kidney stones treatment yes, good substitute for laser

[RagDoll_Effect]

Originally Posted by tweakpower

hahaha, for kidney stones treatment yes, good substitute for laser

Ok, post a link to an 8 inch sub that you like with a frequency range and wattage, and I will show you a 12 inch sub that beats it...

regards,
RagDoll.

[tweakpower]

Originally Posted by RagDoll_Effect

Ok, post a link to an 8 inch sub that you like with a frequency range and wattage, and I will show you a 12 inch sub that beats it...

regards,
RagDoll.

R u serious, i though it's a joke . Ok, but, we have dif. type of problem here then. Let's say i know some 8" sub that is good, but you didn't hear it, and let's say you know 12" sub that is good, but i didn't heard it. So, we can't conclude ether way which sub have better sound quality.

if you think about power, well, it is a logic way to think that 12" sub can be more powerful .

EDIT: Any 8" sub, take same brand, same quality, will do. Also, there is big difference for freq. range, example, z5500 is rated at 30Hz or something, but it can't reproduce even 60Hz properly.

[Mufflore]

Originally Posted by tweakpower

hahaha, for kidney stones treatment yes, good substitute for laser

No matter what sub you have (as long as it is powerful enough), you still tune it to the same level SPL.
But there are reasons why you should use a large sub and reasons why you should use a small one, can you think of any?

Can you provide any proof of your claim about smaller subwoofers?

[RagDoll_Effect]

Originally Posted by tweakpower

R u serious, i though it's a joke . Ok, but, we have dif. type of problem here then. Let's say i know some 8" sub that is good, but you didn't hear it, and let's say you know 12" sub that is good, but i didn't heard it. So, we can't conclude ether way which sub have better sound quality.

if you think about power, well, it is a logic way to think that 12" sub can be more powerful .

EDIT: Any 8" sub, take same brand, same quality, will do. Also, there is big difference for freq. range, example, z5500 is rated at 30Hz or something, but it can't reproduce even 60Hz properly.

LOL, well any 8 inch sub that's from a brand for home theater

Here's a sub 14 inch woofers

edit: http://reviews.cnet.com/subwoofers/d...78412.htmlGoes from 10hz-200hz 2000 watts rms

regards,
RagDoll.