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  (#26)
david1006
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Default 04-30-2012, 04:05 | posts: 67 | Location: NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
Heaven stresses the GPU....not the CPU. Games will stress both.



Seen many problems caused by insufficient power. You might want to do some research.

Now, lets look at some simple facts here. His PSU has a maximum of 22amps on 2, 12V rails. Now, his 12v rails only produce roughly 407watts, leaving roughly 33A to be split amongst the 2, 12v rails when both are loaded. Now, this isn't an issue when running 1 card since that's all the PSU was designed to run. This becomes an issue when trying to run 2 cards as the PSU was not designed to support this type of load or configuration.

If he was trying to run the system on a PSU with only 24A....then yes, the system would flat out crash. But, in this case it appears the cards are simply throttling due to insufficient power. He needs at least 38-42A (actual output, not theoretical) to properly power the system

(Technical note: The 3.3v line supplies 82.5watts, the 5v line supplies 125watts according to the label, leaving only 407.5watts of it's 614watt maximum for the group).
that do make sense if so what do you think will be a good power supply to buy?.
   
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Old
  (#27)
deluxe
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Default 04-30-2012, 04:14 | posts: 227 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
Seen many problems caused by insufficient power. You might want to do some research.

Now, lets look at some simple facts here. His PSU has a maximum of 22amps on 2, 12V rails. Now, his 12v rails only produce roughly 407watts, leaving roughly 33A to be split amongst the 2, 12v rails when both are loaded. Now, this isn't an issue when running 1 card since that's all the PSU was designed to run. This becomes an issue when trying to run 2 cards as the PSU was not designed to support this type of load or configuration.

If he was trying to run the system on a PSU with only 24A....then yes, the system would flat out crash. But, in this case it appears the cards are simply throttling due to insufficient power. He needs at least 38-42A (actual output, not theoretical) to properly power the system

(Technical note: The 3.3v line supplies 82.5watts, the 5v line supplies 125watts according to the label, leaving only 407.5watts of it's 614watt maximum for the group).
Before you tell me to do some research, have you actually done research yourself about what you are saying?
Yes, his PSU is garbage and yes I would replace it.
But I can say with 99% certainty that it's not the PSU causing low GPU usage.
I don't believe GPU's will throttle when a PSU is insufficient.
So if you have done research, I'd like you to back those statements up with facts.
I'm leaving the 1% open for you to prove me wrong.
   
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  (#28)
killer_939
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Default 04-30-2012, 04:17 | posts: 2,598 | Location: Australia

In all honestly if it was my system i wouldn't risk turning it on with 2 graphics cards in it or an overclock till i went out and brought a new corsair/seasonic 750-850w PSU for it. 2x 22amp rails won't power that rig properly, bulldozer is very inefficient drawing probably like 200w at 4GHz and the 6870's are 150w each making it ~500w possible power draw for your system mostly on those 2 12v 22a rails.

While it does look like Alan Wake game may be CPU limited your lack of performance in other games is probably because those GPU's combined with high CPU load just can't get enough power.
   
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  (#29)
sykozis
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Default 04-30-2012, 04:26 | posts: 16,735 | Location: US East Coast

The graphics cards alone, at stock clocks consume 276watts. His processor, at stock clocks under load consumes 163watts for a total of 436watts. That's awful high for a rail that can only produce 407watts.

Quote:
What would happen if your PSU can't cope with the load?:

bad 3D performance
crashing games
spontaneous reset or imminent shutdown of the PC
freezing during gameplay
PSU overload can cause it to break down
That's directly from every GPU review done on this site and has been proven accurate in every case.

Saying that underpowering a computer will definitely cause crashing, is the furthest thing from the truth. The result depends on the extent of which you're underpowering the system. If you'd drop the BS ego, which only proves lack of knowledge, you might actually learn something. Some of us have been doing this for a rather long time...
   
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Old
  (#30)
david1006
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Default 04-30-2012, 04:46 | posts: 67 | Location: NY

OK people i got it my power supply is a piece of crap! i get it i need to buy a new one i find this one on newegg what do you think http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139021
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139025
   
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  (#31)
---TK---
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Default 04-30-2012, 04:53 | posts: 18,923 | Location: New Jersey, USA

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139010
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151087
just a couple, see what other people recommend too
   
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  (#32)
deluxe
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Default 04-30-2012, 04:56 | posts: 227 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
The graphics cards alone, at stock clocks consume 276watts. His processor, at stock clocks under load consumes 163watts for a total of 436watts. That's awful high for a rail that can only produce 407watts.



That's directly from every GPU review done on this site and has been proven accurate in every case.

Saying that underpowering a computer will definitely cause crashing, is the furthest thing from the truth. The result depends on the extent of which you're underpowering the system. If you'd drop the BS ego, which only proves lack of knowledge, you might actually learn something. Some of us have been doing this for a rather long time...
What you quoted still isn't factual information.
How long you've been "doing this" is irrelevant, I'm pretty sure i've been "doing it" longer or at least as long as most of you.

I am saying this now: Replacing the PSU will not suddenly fix the GPU usage.
We'll see when OP has replaced his PSU.
He needs a new PSU anyway, so it's not a bad suggestion, but it's not going to solve his problem.
   
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Old
  (#33)
david1006
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Default 04-30-2012, 05:25 | posts: 67 | Location: NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxe View Post
What you quoted still isn't factual information.
How long you've been "doing this" is irrelevant, I'm pretty sure i've been "doing it" longer or at least as long as most of you.

I am saying this now: Replacing the PSU will not suddenly fix the GPU usage.
We'll see when OP has replaced his PSU.
He needs a new PSU anyway, so it's not a bad suggestion, but it's not going to solve his problem.
what do you think is the problem then?
   
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  (#34)
deluxe
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Default 04-30-2012, 05:42 | posts: 227 | Location: Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by david1006 View Post
what do you think is the problem then?
It could be because of one card running at 16x speed, and one at 4x speed.
It was a major issue with the P55 chipset if they ran 16x/4x instead of 8x/8x. (because the 4x wasn't even 4x 2.0 there)
Now I haven't really bothered with AMD for the last ~8 years, so I wouldn't know if AMD boards with 16x/4x had these same issues.

Try and find out if more people with similar setups have the same issue.

Last edited by deluxe; 04-30-2012 at 05:45.
   
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  (#35)
sykozis
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Default 04-30-2012, 05:45 | posts: 16,735 | Location: US East Coast

@David, I'd go with this one personally as it provides more than adequate power and has all 4 necessary 6pin PCIe Aux connectors as well as producing all the amperage you'll need.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139021

Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxe View Post
What you quoted still isn't factual information.
How long you've been "doing this" is irrelevant, I'm pretty sure i've been "doing it" longer or at least as long as most of you.

I am saying this now: Replacing the PSU will not suddenly fix the GPU usage.
We'll see when OP has replaced his PSU.
He needs a new PSU anyway, so it's not a bad suggestion, but it's not going to solve his problem.
So, every review site is lying?? Not a good thing to say....especially after it's been proven factual countless times....

But, I'll fall back on an agreement I previously made.....and end with this. The first step in solving ANY hardware related problem is ensuring adequate power is supplied to components. Components can't operate at full potential (or load in this case) if not supplied sufficient power. Of course, anyone with knowledge of electronics already knows this.
   
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Old
  (#36)
david1006
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Default 04-30-2012, 06:06 | posts: 67 | Location: NY

ok ill buy it when i get the money.
   
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  (#37)
david1006
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Default 04-30-2012, 06:07 | posts: 67 | Location: NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxe View Post
It could be because of one card running at 16x speed, and one at 4x speed.
It was a major issue with the P55 chipset if they ran 16x/4x instead of 8x/8x. (because the 4x wasn't even 4x 2.0 there)
Now I haven't really bothered with AMD for the last ~8 years, so I wouldn't know if AMD boards with 16x/4x had these same issues.

Try and find out if more people with similar setups have the same issue.
i can see your point but ever time i play a game GPU2 running on the x4 line always have more GPU usage then GPU1 i try playing Witcher 2 with 1 GPU running on x16 line i got 87% GPU usage and Alan Wake i got 99% GPU usage so it can very well be cpu bottleneck and the lack of power.
   
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  (#38)
MadelineX
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Default 04-30-2012, 06:28 | posts: 257 | Location: Seattle, WA

You have catalysapplication profiles installed
Right?
   
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  (#39)
david1006
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Videocard: R9 290 4GB
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Default 04-30-2012, 06:37 | posts: 67 | Location: NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadelineX View Post
You have catalysapplication profiles installed
Right?
no i don't send me a link ill download it
   
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  (#40)
THEBIG360
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Default 04-30-2012, 10:42 | posts: 1,216 | Location: Bradford/England

Hi mate, i was having an issue like that. However i have just upgraded from a Q9550, socket 775 mobo and ddr2 to my specs in my info to the side and my mind has been blown.

5870 lives on, although a do have a very itchy feeling to upgrade my GPU but i will resist.
   
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  (#41)
bokah
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Default 04-30-2012, 11:03 | posts: 2,314

didnt read much of this...

in xfire anything between 40-80% on each core is normal
this is how multi gpu systems are.
in rare cases where devs get they **** right u get both cores above 55% or so
thats when u see benefits of it

bad psu can be couse of bad performance, but doubt its case here

ur prolly having too hard or bad settings on game if ur gpus drop below 45%
or just cpu bound game
   
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Old
  (#42)
xm8z
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PSU: Tagan Bz 900w modular
Default 04-30-2012, 12:25 | posts: 73 | Location: Planet Earth

@ david1006

so finally u have time to spend here and get good info .The reason i told u to join the great tech forum ! .

But i must tell u one high-end gpu >>> two mid range in SLI/crossfire , games these days r mainly console ports ..... *SAD* .......
   
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  (#43)
xm8z
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Default 04-30-2012, 12:48 | posts: 73 | Location: Planet Earth

@ david1006

CAP : http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=354718
   
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  (#44)
ihatelolcats
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Default 04-30-2012, 21:06 | posts: 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
@David, I'd go with this one personally as it provides more than adequate power and has all 4 necessary 6pin PCIe Aux connectors as well as producing all the amperage you'll need.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139021



So, every review site is lying?? Not a good thing to say....especially after it's been proven factual countless times....

But, I'll fall back on an agreement I previously made.....and end with this. The first step in solving ANY hardware related problem is ensuring adequate power is supplied to components. Components can't operate at full potential (or load in this case) if not supplied sufficient power. Of course, anyone with knowledge of electronics already knows this.
link to one review that says an underpowered PSU can cause graphics card throttling
   
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  (#45)
---TK---
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Soundcard: Phoebus + DT880 Pro 250
PSU: Corsair AX 1200
Default 04-30-2012, 21:29 | posts: 18,923 | Location: New Jersey, USA

16x and 4x is not too much of a problem as people think. thats probably not the problem either. cpu bottleneck is the likely cause based on the info given from the OP.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...e,2887-10.html
   
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  (#46)
david1006
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Default 05-01-2012, 05:00 | posts: 67 | Location: NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ---TK--- View Post
16x and 4x is not too much of a problem as people think. thats probably not the problem either. cpu bottleneck is the likely cause based on the info given from the OP.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...e,2887-10.html
thanks for the link i knew that cant be the problem it can be the power supply and cpu bottleneck ill buy a new power supply and overclock the CPU ill let you guys know what happens
   
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  (#47)
sykozis
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Default 05-01-2012, 05:12 | posts: 16,735 | Location: US East Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatelolcats View Post
link to one review that says an underpowered PSU can cause graphics card throttling
I don't need to link a review. It's called common sense. BTW, it's also how every electronic device functions when underpowered. If not provided sufficient power, no electronics device is going to operate at full speed or with it's full feature set. The card will only work as hard as it can based on the power it's supplied, up to it's full potential. If the lack of power is great enough, the device will shutdown.

Of course, if you'd like to PM Hilbert and tell him he's lying by listing "bad 3D performance" as a result of insufficient power, feel free.....

BTW, insufficient power can also cause CPU throttling....

In both cases the processor (be it CPU or GPU) will only process data to the point that it reaches a power limit. It's not actually throttling, btw. It's reaching a power ceiling. Throttling is a case where a processor (be it CPU or GPU) reduces it's speed.


   
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  (#48)
kn00tcn
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Default 05-01-2012, 05:23 | posts: 1,589 | Location: Toronto

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokah View Post
didnt read much of this...

in xfire anything between 40-80% on each core is normal
this is how multi gpu systems are.
in rare cases where devs get they **** right u get both cores above 55% or so
thats when u see benefits of it

bad psu can be couse of bad performance, but doubt its case here

ur prolly having too hard or bad settings on game if ur gpus drop below 45%
or just cpu bound game
not that normal, unless vsync is on or the engine is acting funny (night races in shift2 for me get stuck at 50/50 usage, & certain angles of crysis 2)

but for OP, if single is 99%, dual is 40% each, that should mean fps is LOWER than single in that particular game, which would be a problem
   
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  (#49)
david1006
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Videocard: R9 290 4GB
Processor: AMD FX-8350
Mainboard: SABERTOOTH 990FX
Memory: 8GB 1600MHz
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PSU: Silencer Mk II 750W
Default 05-04-2012, 00:49 | posts: 67 | Location: NY

hey you guys still want to buy a power supply but i'm a little short on money i can buy this power supply what do you guys think about this one its SLI Ready but not crossfire http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341041
OCZ Fatal1ty 750W review
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...ly-Review/1019

Last edited by david1006; 05-04-2012 at 00:56.
   
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  (#50)
---TK---
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Videocard: 780Ti SC SLI/Qnix 2710
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PSU: Corsair AX 1200
Default 05-04-2012, 01:19 | posts: 18,923 | Location: New Jersey, USA

guess that will do if your short on money, unless somebody has a better deal, is that your max budget? and its crossfire ready too lol

750 watt 62.4 amps on the 12v rail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703027
15% off with promo code and rebate, free shipping

Last edited by ---TK---; 05-04-2012 at 01:29.
   
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