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fr33k
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Default 03-14-2012, 03:32 | posts: 1,822 | Location: USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
From a security standpoint....cloud computing is the worst idea the industry has ever conceived. Unfortunately, the industry has more control than the consumer. The HD-DVD vs Blu-ray "war" proved that. Based on stand-alone players, HD-DVD outsold Blu-ray but, because Sony used a Blu-ray drive in their playstations, the facts were skewed enough for HD-DVD to die. In the end, it makes little difference what consumers want, so long as the industry wants it bad enough.
For start, HD-DVD failed because it had TONS of bad publicity with the whole ant-piracy issue and the major flaw in its encryption key. One thing we can agree on is piracy holds a huge place in the industry even though the industry fights it hard. RIAA and MIAA know this all to well and so does M$ who have tried hard each time and failed. Where as M$'s roots are from underground coding to begin with, and they make use of this fact every way you look (kinect fits in well here).

The difference here is M$ knows their users well enough that they know they don't like "too much" control from big corps. This will drive the next phone i think. The first thing people did with iphone is "jail" break it. Google used their endless coffer to profit off of it right away.
But like we're getting at here is the network between user owned PC and user owned phone is going to drive M$ into the market.


Cloud based computing (which this guy in said article preaches) is going to utterly fail. Just like HD-DVD, just like Sony's disc based protection etc etc. I just don't see people, in a fear of ACTA/corperate control based internet, giving that much control over to a company ever- even if early adopters(rich people) jumped on the ipad/iphone wagon.

Hopefully this delay is only caused by M$ not resorting to slave based labor to drive prices down.

Last edited by fr33k; 03-14-2012 at 03:40.
   
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Default 03-14-2012, 04:39 | posts: 11,396 | Location: England

Blasphemy!
   
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Default 03-14-2012, 14:44 | posts: 73 | Location: Santa Ana, Ca

Why in the world would I want to give up my gaming power --- My software power and options---and my 27" HDMI screen, for a 10" tablet with less of everything?
No way----the reason these mini-computers are popular is because they are affordable and mobile. Kind of like the reason consoles are popular, cheap and mobile.
Perhaps PCs ARE less mainstream now because of Tablets and Mobiles---that doesnt make them any less viable. Our Market is still growing, not shrinking---it just has more competition.
   
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Denial
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Default 03-14-2012, 17:45 | posts: 6,631 | Location: Above Earth in a Big Rocket Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by fr33k View Post
For start, HD-DVD failed because it had TONS of bad publicity with the whole ant-piracy issue and the major flaw in its encryption key. One thing we can agree on is piracy holds a huge place in the industry even though the industry fights it hard. RIAA and MIAA know this all to well and so does M$ who have tried hard each time and failed. Where as M$'s roots are from underground coding to begin with, and they make use of this fact every way you look (kinect fits in well here).

The difference here is M$ knows their users well enough that they know they don't like "too much" control from big corps. This will drive the next phone i think. The first thing people did with iphone is "jail" break it. Google used their endless coffer to profit off of it right away.
But like we're getting at here is the network between user owned PC and user owned phone is going to drive M$ into the market.


Cloud based computing (which this guy in said article preaches) is going to utterly fail. Just like HD-DVD, just like Sony's disc based protection etc etc. I just don't see people, in a fear of ACTA/corperate control based internet, giving that much control over to a company ever- even if early adopters(rich people) jumped on the ipad/iphone wagon.

Hopefully this delay is only caused by M$ not resorting to slave based labor to drive prices down.
Cloud based computing is not going to fail. No one has fear of corporate control - billions of people already give up their information via facebook/google/bing or whatever. When they see the advantages that cloud offers they will flock to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwok
Why in the world would I want to give up my gaming power --- My software power and options---and my 27" HDMI screen, for a 10" tablet with less of everything?
No way----the reason these mini-computers are popular is because they are affordable and mobile. Kind of like the reason consoles are popular, cheap and mobile.
Perhaps PCs ARE less mainstream now because of Tablets and Mobiles---that doesnt make them any less viable. Our Market is still growing, not shrinking---it just has more competition.
The only thing you're giving up is computational power. I don't see how you're giving up options or your 27 inch screen if you're using a dock. As for the power, it's pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Hard core gamers are at most a $5B market in terms of hardware (AMD/Nvidia graphics revenue). The computer industry is probably in the trillions by now in terms of overall hardware. We're a drop in the bucket. I'm sure we will still be taken care of - but the general trend will be towards mobile computing - especially because they are more than capable of doing what 99% of the population wants to do.
   
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fr33k
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Default 03-14-2012, 18:07 | posts: 1,822 | Location: USA

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Originally Posted by Denial View Post
Cloud based computing is not going to fail. No one has fear of corporate control - billions of people already give up their information via facebook/google/bing or whatever. When they see the advantages that cloud offers they will flock to it.
your name suits you.

I suppose you think anonymous and lulzsec are just figments of the imagination and the occupy movement was just a bunch of crazy lunatics.

facebook doesn't contain nearly the amount of control that cloud based computing would give corporations. So its easy to see people being "okay" with it.
   
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Default 03-14-2012, 19:02 | posts: 281

Cloud based computing my ass. It is just a new name given old technology with a new spin. The new spin being you have now idea where the server is located that holds the data. The "cloud" just reduces the storage space strain on buisenesses. This is no major leap forward in productivity one bit. Just all about how effective marketing is on the phsyche.
   
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CronoGraal
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Default 03-14-2012, 19:26 | posts: 3,700 | Location: Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwok View Post
Why in the world would I want to give up my gaming power --- My software power and options---and my 27" HDMI screen, for a 10" tablet with less of everything?
No way----the reason these mini-computers are popular is because they are affordable and mobile. Kind of like the reason consoles are popular, cheap and mobile.
Perhaps PCs ARE less mainstream now because of Tablets and Mobiles---that doesnt make them any less viable. Our Market is still growing, not shrinking---it just has more competition.
1) In the big picture PC gamers are a vast minority. Yes, there are companies who cater to our needs but in the bigger picture we're just a small fraction of the average PC user.

2) You wouldn't be "giving up" anything.

I assume the future of "PC" are with tablets and docked tablets. No one is pretending that tablets are anywhere close to replacing PC's, but for someone who doesn't use PC's for anything other than word processing, minor web surfing, and other basic tasks, a docked tablet can already do all of that today.

In the future hardware will naturally evolve, and there will eventually come a time when some performance is sacrificed for the usability/practicality of a tablet. By then I suspect phone functions will already be implemented to them aswell.

There will always be a place for gamers, aka enthusiasts, but you need to look how other other technology has changed. For example, the early flat screen monitors that became mainstream and popularly used were vastly inferior to CRT monitors. It still ended up working out because it was much more practical, despite the inferior performance.

I wuoldn't say the world is over PC's, just PC's as we know them. A docked tablet is still a PC, is it not?
   
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Denial
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Default 03-14-2012, 19:29 | posts: 6,631 | Location: Above Earth in a Big Rocket Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by fr33k View Post
your name suits you.
k

Quote:
Originally Posted by fr33k View Post
I suppose you think anonymous and lulzsec are just figments of the imagination and the occupy movement was just a bunch of crazy lunatics.

facebook doesn't contain nearly the amount of control that cloud based computing would give corporations. So its easy to see people being "okay" with it.
I don't really care for the hacker groups and the people that even understand what they are trying to accomplish is limited to a extremely small minority. Most people hate them because their closed Sony PS3 store or whatever.

Plenty of cloud based storage systems already exist, EC2 for instance is gigantic, same with a bunch of Google web services. People use them. Once consumer oriented products start taking advantage, consumers will use them too.

Don't get me wrong, I think new legislation needs to be written up - especially after seeing what the FBI did to megaupload and the ramifications of that. There needs to be laws that allow users to maintain complete control of their data when it's in the cloud and free that data if need be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Cloud based computing my ass. It is just a new name given old technology with a new spin. The new spin being you have now idea where the server is located that holds the data. The "cloud" just reduces the storage space strain on buisenesses. This is no major leap forward in productivity one bit. Just all about how effective marketing is on the phsyche.
The idea of moving information and computation off client machines and onto server clusters isn't new, but the effort and capability to do it definitely is.

You mention storage, but besides that you have - large scale power reduction, scalable computing power/cost, labor reduction, and added data security.

In the consumer space their are tons of advantages. I replace my phone my contacts/apps are all there ready for me to install upon my new one. With Windows 8, I can log into any machine with my Windows live account and have access to all my Metro Apps/My Documents in Skydrive. Eventually this will lead to even more stuff - for instance medical/insurance data being shared between hospitals/doctors etc.

Again, I think new legislation needs to be drafted in order to allow the consumer to gain better control of their data, but the advantages are definitely there.
   
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Default 03-14-2012, 19:54 | posts: 281

Effort, yes that is new but capability is not. Just more cost effective since bandwidth price has dropped.

Power reduction is becuase of new hardware. Otherwise labor and power just moved to server cluster that is being utilized.

Like previously said the only new spin is not knowing where the server is located. Apps stored on a phone, whether it is backed up on your personal pc, local network server, or "cloud" makes no difference. Big deal the site address is hard coded; the account the data is stored under is still being logged into and then downloaded. Bandwidth and the cost of it were the only things that prevented the so called cloud from being pushed ealier. All it is is offsite storage. Support costs just shifted places. 100% marketing spins on everything you listed.
   
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Default 03-14-2012, 20:15 | posts: 1,522

Around a year from now touchscreen laptops with 360 degree screens with windows 8 will dominate the market and larger 5 inch srcreen phones with windows 8 will dominate the phone market.
   
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Denial
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Default 03-14-2012, 20:42 | posts: 6,631 | Location: Above Earth in a Big Rocket Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Effort, yes that is new but capability is not. Just more cost effective since bandwidth price has dropped.
So all the development in virtualization technology, routing technology, scalable software design, etc has all been lying around?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Power reduction is becuase of new hardware. Otherwise labor and power just moved to server cluster that is being utilized.
New hardware focused on reducing power costs and scaling of that hardware. Most companies have absolutely no reason to purchase or develop power saving designs, as they don't see large scale savings from it. A cloud company has a huge financial incentive by developing power solutions. Not to mention that the plants can be located in areas where certain types of cleaner power is more abundant/cheaper. As for scaling, a device often operates at 80% of it's peak power while averaging a 15% utilization rate. By pooling everything on to each server, you're effectively increasing the efficiency of the system. In fact power companies offer rebates for virtualizing servers because of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Like previously said the only new spin is not knowing where the server is located. Apps stored on a phone, whether it is backed up on your personal pc, local network server, or "cloud" makes no difference. Big deal the site address is hard coded; the account the data is stored under is still being logged into and then downloaded. Bandwidth and the cost of it were the only things that prevented the so called cloud from being pushed ealier. All it is is offsite storage. Support costs just shifted places. 100% marketing spins on everything you listed.
Seriously? It makes all the difference. I want access to the music I purchased/downloaded on my computer, my car, my phone my TV, everywhere. I don't want to have to think about transferring files or setting up networks. I want to log in and have all my documents, email, etc all there on any device. Cloud computing offers that, having **** on your network doesn't.

Also all those costs are load adjusted, I can't for the life of me understand how you can't see that as a benefit. If I'm running a business and some days I need computing power, other days I don't, the ability to rent time on a machine or have my server scale to the load and pay by that is ****ing huge. In fact it's so huge it's the #1 reason why tons of companies are switching to those methods, it saves tons of money for businesses utilizing the system.

Last edited by Denial; 03-14-2012 at 20:47.
   
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Corrupt^
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Default 03-14-2012, 21:29 | posts: 5,094 | Location: Belgium

My standpoint: the PC will never die, since all of the tiny tablets and what not are simply turning into a PC.

The PC will die out for normal consumers when the smaller gadgets have enough processing power.
   
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