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The Chubu
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Default 03-07-2012, 05:17 | posts: 2,541 | Location: Look out!

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Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
C, if you want to use the skills for embedded [actual embedded, not 'apps'] development
lol Nice one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fool View Post
What, you don't think I should get into programming?
Dont worry about it man, just start reading. Programming is programming, no matter what the language is, everything that makes you think tasks like easy little chunks of code that the computer can understand will help you with any programming related stuff.
   
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TruMutton_200Hz
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Default 03-09-2012, 19:34 | posts: 2,760 | Location: Belgium

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Originally Posted by The Chubu View Post
Programming is programming, no matter what the language is
Let's see how far you'll get...
http://knowledgeblackbelt.com
   
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The Chubu
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Default 03-10-2012, 19:36 | posts: 2,541 | Location: Look out!

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Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
Let's see how far you'll get...
http://knowledgeblackbelt.com
*sigh*
Quote:
Programming is programming, no matter what the language is, everything that makes you think tasks like easy little chunks of code that the computer can understand will help you with any programming related stuff.
Try again sir! You missed the point completely last time!
   
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The Chubu
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Default 03-10-2012, 19:38 | posts: 2,541 | Location: Look out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
Let's see how far you'll get...
http://knowledgeblackbelt.com
*sigh*
Quote:
Programming is programming, no matter what the language is, everything that makes you think tasks like easy little chunks of code that the computer can understand will help you with any programming related stuff.
Try again sir! You missed the point completely last time!

Besides, "Knowledge Black Belt" ? lol, no thanks, I prefer my university.
   
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TruMutton_200Hz
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Default 03-10-2012, 23:27 | posts: 2,760 | Location: Belgium

^ The more a student already knows about what I call "lazy style" programming, the harder it becomes for the student to abandon the habit. Just because you know the syntax doesn't also necessarily mean you know how to write good code...

Universities are good at theorization. Unfortunately however, it takes more practice than theory to learn how to deliver return on investment. In IT, the Java Black Belt certification generally makes a far bigger difference to ones paycheck than a Master degree does. Here in Belgium, a country no bigger than New York City, per year there are 13,000 jobs in IT for which nobody ever gets hired, mainly due to the lack of experienced candidates. Welcome to planet Earth!
   
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The Chubu
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Default 03-11-2012, 03:25 | posts: 2,541 | Location: Look out!

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Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
^ The more a student already knows about what I call "lazy style" programming, the harder it becomes for the student to abandon the habit. Just because you know the syntax doesn't also necessarily mean you know how to write good code...
wtf? I think you read too much into what i wrote

The only thing i said is that whatever makes you think tasks (big things you want to do) as little pieces of code, it will help you to code stuff, since thats what programming is all about, separate bigger tasks in smaller chunks to spoon feed the computer. So no matter what programming language you pick, thats what you'll be mostly doing, transforming bigger stuff in a bunch of smaller tasks. So, my advice was, stop wondering what to learn, just start reading and start coding, if the OP wants to change languages later, whatever he chooses will be easier to pick up by then, so its not that important for now what language he chooses (within reason of course).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
Universities are good at theorization. Unfortunately however, it takes more practice than theory to learn how to deliver return on investment. In IT, the Java Black Belt certification generally makes a far bigger difference to ones paycheck than a Master degree does. Here in Belgium, a country no bigger than New York City, per year there are 13,000 jobs in IT for which nobody ever gets hired, mainly due to the lack of experienced candidates. Welcome to planet Earth!
Good for you, as i said (i think you didnt read it), i'll stick with university. I didnt ask you for your opinion on that.
   
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TruMutton_200Hz
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Default 03-11-2012, 17:44 | posts: 2,760 | Location: Belgium

^ Yes, spoonfeeding the computer is what programmers do. But that doesn't mean my boss and the customer that pays him always like the kind of spoon I'm using... lol

As for my opinion about university and Java Black Belt, I don't even have an opinion. In fact, I used to have the same opinion about it as you (but it's what caused me to lose my job).
   
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Default 03-12-2012, 17:31 | posts: 1,716

C# for learning is much better, clearer articles online, better documentation IMHO and Visual Studio is bar non the best IDE out there, plus the lower versions are free. Once you learn C# going to Java if you have to will be painless.
   
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TruMutton_200Hz
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Default 03-12-2012, 19:43 | posts: 2,760 | Location: Belgium

^ See how far you'll get with EJB 3.1 first and then talk later.
   
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stealthmaker
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Default 03-20-2012, 14:16 | posts: 1,716

TruMutton, I think you're taking this a bit too personally
   
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TruMutton_200Hz
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Default 03-20-2012, 16:14 | posts: 2,760 | Location: Belgium

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TruMutton, I think you're taking this a bit too personally
That's what I told my boss before he fired me.
   
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stealthmaker
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Default 03-22-2012, 15:01 | posts: 1,716

LOL.. you're fired!
   
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Default 03-26-2012, 10:03 | posts: 5,467 | Location: Funland aka Happycamp aka Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruMutton_200Hz View Post
^ The more a student already knows about what I call "lazy style" programming, the harder it becomes for the student to abandon the habit. Just because you know the syntax doesn't also necessarily mean you know how to write good code...

Universities are good at theorization. Unfortunately however, it takes more practice than theory to learn how to deliver return on investment. In IT, the Java Black Belt certification generally makes a far bigger difference to ones paycheck than a Master degree does. Here in Belgium, a country no bigger than New York City, per year there are 13,000 jobs in IT for which nobody ever gets hired, mainly due to the lack of experienced candidates. Welcome to planet Earth!
Really depends on the university. Computer science department in the University of Helsinki has a pretty "hands dirty" policy, meaning lots of programming homework and emphasis on good programming style.
   
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gamerk2
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Default 03-26-2012, 14:37 | posts: 2,104 | Location: Medford, NY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xendance View Post
Really depends on the university. Computer science department in the University of Helsinki has a pretty "hands dirty" policy, meaning lots of programming homework and emphasis on good programming style.
Not from my experience. Never wrote more then about a 1,000 line program as part of my BS. [Thats not counting the game me and my partner wrote, which was probably about 10k SLOCs or so...]

This article basically matches my thoughts on university ComSci programs:
http://www.flounder.com/bricks.htm
   
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The Chubu
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Default 04-04-2012, 05:35 | posts: 2,541 | Location: Look out!

Mmm... I actually never expected that kind of experience from uni. From what i gather its more like general view of everything, past, present, future, like showing what kind of stuff programming reaches, and then you'd need to research and get experience in the field that you're interested in.

I never expected to learn HLSL from uni for example, i just expected it to present me about how much stuff is out there so i can further improve on a specific field.

And computing is a somewhat "new thing", i imagine that with physics, biology, medicine or some other older field you cant seriously expect that if a guy with a degree knows everything in such discipline.

For example, my career has all kind of courses, AI, web programming, data bases, system design, some low level stuff, electronics, mathematics, statistics, OSes, etc. That doesnt means that when i get a degree i can, say, go to work in a robotics company programming their AI, it means i know that all that stuff exists, and i know how to start to improve on each of those ramifications of "programming". If anyone expected complete in deph knowledge of each subject, we'd have 10 year careers.

Like school presents us things like mathematics, history, physics, literature, university presents us each sub ramifications of those big fields.

I think that the only way to make sure that someone knows something specific is that that person has doctorate or magister (ph. d? im not sure on the naming scheme on that one) on that specific field (that requires research and other contributions).

Though there is some worrisome stuff i wont deny (like the linked lists, its like the 1rst thing i saw after matrixes lol).
   
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